Charging amps November 29, 2014, 10:37:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149762Does anyone know what the charging amps are when I am using the generator from the inverter into my batteries on my LD 2005 30 ft IB. I was dry camping over the weekend here in Phoenix and my solar panels were not quite doing the job(because the sun was at a local angle)so I had to revert back to the generator at night. Now it seemed the generator through the inverter was not charging it very high. Maybe I would have been better charging the batteries by starting the motor! I heard that the newer inverters were charging at 60 amps, but the older inverters only charge at 10 amps. Does the 2005 LD have the less charging amps? Your thoughts?thanks David 2005 LD 30IB
Re: Charging amps Reply #1 – November 30, 2014, 10:23:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 149764Your question was a little confusing. INverters generally change 13V DC into 120 V AC. CONverters generally are powered from 120 VAC, changing it to 13VDC, to charge the batteries and run 12 V devices.Assuming you meant you were running the generator to power the CONverter It depends on what kind of converter you have. If you have the factory original Parallax Power 7345 converter, it will not be particularly effective at charging the house batteries, because it maxes out at roughly 13.6 V, which is near the float voltage. The truck motor will be much faster bring back your house batteries, although I would not recommend running the truck engine for hours, sitting still.If you have upgraded the power converter to one of the Multistage converters, such as the Progressive Dynamics PD series, it has a "boost" mode that tries to bring the voltage up to 14.5 for a few hours. It will put out up to near its rated capacity (35 - 55 or more depending on the model).If you have not upgraded your converter, the maximum output will be 45 amps, but it will only deliver that in to a totally dead battery, falling to a tiny fraction of that as the system approaches 13.6. At 13.6, the charging amps will be zero.Even if you have an upgraded converter, it will still take hours of generator run time to bring your batteries back if they are substantially depleted. If your converter has not been upgraded, it will take days.-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Charging amps Reply #2 – November 30, 2014, 11:03:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 149766Dave: excuse me...I meant converter. What does float voltage mean? I have the original converter. It has not been upgraded. david
Re: Charging amps Reply #3 – November 30, 2014, 11:44:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 149767Float voltage is a voltage applied to a fully charged battery bank to keep it "topped off", without overcharging it. The batteries usually have at least some small external load, and have some internal discharge as well. The float voltage is intended to provide just enough current to offset those losses. I swapped out my stock converter with a PD9270 for too reasons. 1 - We leave our rig plugged in most of the time and the stock converter held the voltage too high, so I had to frequently add water to the cells. 2 - The stock converter charges very slowly once the battery get somewhat recharged (the last portion takes forever!). I'll put in another plug for a good battery monitor system (I have an older Xantrex Link-10). This lets you quickly see the instantaneous current going into or out of the batteries, and the total number of amp-hours currently stored in the batteries. IMHO a battery monitor is essential for boondocking.Art
Re: Charging amps Reply #4 – November 30, 2014, 01:27:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149769See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_voltageThe standard Parallax Power converter, essentially is a voltage regulated power supply that is set to ~13.6 V. If the system stays at 13.4 - 13.6, the batteries will consume very little water. As the system voltage goes down, the power supply will supply enough current to maintain the 13.6 (up to its limit of 45 amps). However, as the battery approaches 13,6, the current will drop to very near zero. Thus not much good for charging.Batteries are changed by forcing current through them, which requires pushing the voltage up to 14.5 or so, until enough current has been provided to complete the charge. This is called "boost" or "bulk" mode. The problems is, if you leave the voltage at 14.5 forever, you will boil off the water and destroy the batteries.Related, is the Solar converters used in 2005/06 were also set to 14.5, and it was not possible to turn it off unless you opened up the box and removed an inline fuse. Later units came with the B model with an on/off switch, and two position charge point switch (dry camp/shore power).Bottom line was, if you were plugged in to shore power and in the sunshine, the solar converter over charged the batteries, requiring frequent watering. Back in the day (05/06 and before), the T105 batteries didn't really care about being overcharged as long as you kept up with the water level.In modern times power converters have become much more sophisticated, and automatic. Now, if you have replaced batteries with AGM, you had better replace the power converter too. Otherwise you are destroying $700 AGMs.I replaced my Parallax Power converter with a PD 4655 unit that starts out in boost mode (14.5V) for a few hours (until 90% charged), then drops back to 13.6 for 24 - 30 hours. After that it reduces down to 13.2 "storage" mode. While in storage mode, it pops up to 14.5 boost every 21 hours, for 15 minutes. Generally the 4655 converter is automatic, but there is a button you can press and an LED indicator if you need to force boost mode manually.The PD 4655 is a replacement module that goes in the existing chassis (I bought mine from Amazon). It is possible to replace it by yourself with hand tools. But I understand many folks do not have the skills or confidence to mess with anything electrical. Also plan on some skinned knuckles before completing the conversion. It is one of those PIA procedures, on the floor, in the dark.There also are now fully automatic Solar converters, like Samlex or Blue Sky that do the same thing. I do not have one of those (yet). I did replace the the original Heliotrope with the B model, so I can at least turn it off.-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Charging amps Reply #5 – November 30, 2014, 01:38:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149770FWIW, I tried one of those WFCO units, sold by Bestconverter.com. Bad news. I could never get the thing to go in to boost mode. It flipped between normal 13.6 and storage, 13.2 fine. But I never saw it go to 14.5 boost ever. The Progressve Dynamics works as advertised, flawlessly. Very easy to tell what it was doing.-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Charging amps Reply #6 – November 30, 2014, 03:27:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149771From what I under stand LD installs a 45 amp converter. If you are installing a larger unit 55 or 70 have you upgraded the wire size to the batterys. Or has LD installed larger wire size than needed to start with. When I talk to BestConverter. Com some time ago they first warned me not to up the amp output of the converter unless I first increased the wire size. I would be looking at a potential fire hazard.GeorgeRetired PlumberI replaced my Parallax Power converter with a PD 4655 unit that starts out in boost mode (14.5V) for a few hours (until 90% charged), then drops back to 13.6 for 24 - 30 hours. After that it reduces down to 13.2 "storage" mode. While in storage mode, it pops up to 14.5 boost every 21 hours, for 15 minutes. Generally the 4655 converter is automatic, but there is a button you can press and an LED indicator if you need to force boost mode manually.The PD 4655 is a replacement module that goes in the existing chassis (I bought mine from Amazon). It is possible to replace it by yourself with hand tools. But I understand many folks do not have the skills or confidence to mess with anything electrical. Also plan on some skinned knuckles before completing the conversion. It is one of those PIA procedures, on the floor, in the dark.
Re: Charging amps Reply #7 – November 30, 2014, 04:33:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149772LD I installs 6 gauge wire. That should be good to 75 amps, although they have a 60 amp breaker in line. I have no idea what other vendors use. The main issue is voltage drop, but the length of that run on a MB anyway, is less than 5 feet, so even that is minor.That bad information, along with being misled about the converter choice in general, made me conclude BestConverter.com should be avoided. I will not be going back there anyway.-Dave
Re: Charging amps Reply #8 – November 30, 2014, 04:57:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149773"That bad information, along with being misled about the converter choice in general, made me conclude BestConverter.com should be avoided."---- My experience with Best Converter was very positive. I found Randy to be helpful and knowledgeable, and the product selected to replace the original Parallax 7300 converter in my 2003, i.e., the Progressive Dynamics 4645 "upgrade", has been a very satisfactory choice.http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4645-45-Amp-Converter-Upgrade-Section_p_351.htmlAs always, YMMV.Joan
Re: Charging amps Reply #9 – November 30, 2014, 05:45:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149775Obviously a better day. Although they *could* have led you to the beefier PD4655. The 6 gauge wiring installed in the LD is way more than adequate. Glad you like it.LD really does a nice job with all things electrical.-Dave
Re: Charging amps Reply #10 – November 30, 2014, 06:53:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149777As Dave said, the stock wiring is good for 55-60-amps. When I installed the PD9270, I saw a bit of voltage drop and found the two hidden 30-amp circuit breakers slightly fried looking. Since I was adding a small inverter, I added a second 6-gauge cable from the panel to the battery, along with 2 new 50-amp circuit breakers. One modification was the removal of the two 30-amp converter fuses, on the 12-volt fuse panel, replacing them with a single 70-amp, inline MAXI fuse. http://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse-Block/p_790097.h_790098.t_1.r_IF1003?mkwid=wjr5v610&crid=38094426869&gclid=CMuVh8DPo8ICFRFhfgod7ywAeA http://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse/p_805813For those who don't know, LD has hidden a pair of circuits breakers somewhere between the battery box and the Power Center, usually under a trim piece. Don't bother looking in the Owner's Manual for the location, LD doesn't discuss the breakers in the manuals I have looked at. The circuit breakers are prone to burning out, I have found many of them fried looking with varying amounts of resistance. If you are having charging problems, check them for minimal resistance.In actual use, with 25% of battery capacity used, the PD 9270 converter will produce 65-amps and hold it in the 60-amp range for quite a while. It considerably cuts down the generator run time needed in winter boondocking. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157603671199053/Larry
Re: Charging amps Reply #11 – November 30, 2014, 09:18:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149778A correction from my last posting. With questions from Joan as to if our 2003 LDs were wired with 6-gauge, I had to go out and see. No, it was wired with originally wired with 8-gauge, the next size smaller than 6-gauge.During the converter upgrade, The charging circuits were upgraded to tinned Anchor Marine 6-gauge wire, plenty big for the 70-amp charger and minimal voltage drop.. So, somewhere between 2003 and 2006, LD changed from 8-gauge to 6-gauge, maybe to go along with their bigger solar systems? The 8-gauge was adequate for the weak, stock charger and the minimal demands of the 12-volt systems.Larry
Re: Charging amps Reply #12 – December 01, 2014, 05:38:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149781Actually, Dave, the older Heliotropes (my rig is an '06) without the "B" switch can be made to switch between the high and low settings. I had the same problem, with excess charging (at 14.6) causing rapid boil-off of the battery water. I talked to AM Solar and found out that there is a row of four "dip" switches in the back of the unit. Unscrew the unit from the wall and flip the 2nd switch. This acts just like the external switch on the "B" model, and shifts the charge rate to the lower 13.6 (or so) range. I've had much less watering of the batteries since I started doing this when putting the rig in storage (outside, uncovered). When we go to boondock, I switch it back to the higher rate for the duration of that trip. A bit of a PITA to have to keep unscrewing the unit, but I avoided having to replace it. My original (Trojan) batteries made it nearly 7 years before needing replacement.By the way, my mother reports that another Lazy Daze has moved into Indianapolis, a few blocks from her house (Devonshire, NE Indy). You've got company!-- Jon ('06TK "Albatross")
Re: Charging amps Reply #13 – December 02, 2014, 08:53:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 149787I asked about the HPV prior to delivery, and AM Solar offered to give me nearly full credit for the HPV plain, even though it was installed by LD. So I bought a B model, and swapped it out on our trip home from the factory. My vehicle is kept in my garage, so I did not have the storage problem. I just changed out my original T105s this year. The drop in replacement Lifeline AGMs went in their place.I will watch for the other LD in town. Fantastic!... I live NW, off of Michigan Road. Will need to hook them up with the Great Lakes LDCC!-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Charging amps Reply #14 – December 02, 2014, 12:03:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149791Jon, I really appreciate your post about the HPV-22 DIP switch #2. My 2005 LD 23.5FL with factory solar is stored, uncovered, outside during the winter, so required a lot of attention to the batteries charge. I was in process of looking for a better converter that would automatically use float voltage when the batteries were fully charged. I turned #2 on yesterday, and today under full sun, I have a full charge at 13.7V. Great! I will monitor the water through the winter, but I fully expect to have better results than before. Thanks againDale--Sent with Postbox
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