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Topic: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions (Read 25 times) previous topic - next topic
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Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Yahoo Message Number: 148827
Since CHERRYOTTE is *at* the dreaded 100,000 mile mark, this was a very timely thread. Just called Blownoutplugs/and talked to Dave [Ric's brother?] about getting the tune up done in Oct. in Santa Ynez, since I'll already be in Grass Valley, Ca. and won't have far to travel.
 I asked about the iridium spark plugs, and he was emphatic  that they didn't to use them or any of the 'newer' types, they were just a pesky bit smaller, and caused problems later.  Said after over 800 re-dos, he sticks with the Motorcraft nickel plated exclusively.
 Far be it for me to argue with someone with this kind of experience.

The other concern I had was that it was recommended, at the time of the tune up, to also put new coil packs on all 10 cylinders. He said might not be necessary, *but*
 ...would like any feedback any of you more savvy mechanics may offer..??

I usually err on the side of preventive, versus waiting till something blows or breaks. It's also usually cheaper in the long run...grin.
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."

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Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148828
I had the spark plugs replaced on our 2003 rig at a Ford dealer when our rig had around 95,000 miles. They called me to get approval to replace all of the coil packs because the first two were crumbling apart, probably due to age and heat. I said to just change all of them. They saved me the coil packs and the spark plugs so I could see their condition (I also wanted to see for myself that they had changed all 10 spark plugs.... suspicious me!)

I was pleasantly surprised at the fee for replacing the plugs considering the tight confines they would be working in. I would normally have done the job myself but was intimidated by all the things that needed to be moved to gain access and didn't want to break anything in the process.

I admire those of you (Larry for one) who are willing to tackle this kind of job.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148835
I have a friend that works at UPS. They have used the autolite Iridium plugs for many years in their Ford 300CI six engine vans with no problems. What are these "problems" blown out spark plug man has experienced? Or do they cut into his profits for suckering people into paying $400 or more dollars for a spark plug replacement? Do some people act like sheep and need a leader to rip them off ? Wait a minute I think my gas pedals stuck.

Bo01 23.5 TK with toys...
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148836
I just had a coil go bad on one of my cylinders.  The part was cheap.  The labor was about $250.  IMHO, if I were getting the plugs changed, I would get new coils at the same time, when stuff is easy and accessible.

Ken F in UT
'08 MB
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148838
un-called for Bob...pretty low brow response
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."

--- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148839
"IMHO, if I were getting the plugs changed, I would get new coils at the same time, when stuff is easy and accessible"

Ken

Coils cost around $40-50 each, doubling the cost of a spark plug replacement to the $800-900 range.
Replacing a coil is much simpler than changing the plug. Not sure that replacing all the coils would be considered a normal maintenance item.
I know a Yahoo member who maintains a fleet of V-10s pickups, I will have to get in touch and see if coil failure is common.

One question to those who have had failed ignition coils. does it set the "Check  Engine" light (CEL) on the dash?  Might be worthwhile to carry an extra coil.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148843
Prior to replacement of a coil (among other things) in my 136,K+ miles 2003 RB in August, the "check engine" indicator did not light up.  It was "woman's intuition" that told me "something was wrong"; this was confirmed by a *ScanGauge* read out.  The failure codes,  researched on line with the help of Gini Free, urged me to make an appointment with Statkus in NM ASAP.  Can't say enough about an OBD or ScanGauge; don't know why the "check engine" light didn't go on.  My ScanGauge II is essential -- wouldn't travel without it.  (BTW, as a precaution prior to a solo cross country trip, my spark plugs had been replaced by BlownOut in Santa Ynez at 80,000 miles.)

Lorna, leaving Vista, CA for a Larry Wade follow up appointment tomorrow!
2003 RB
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148844
I too had the ignition coils replaced. The old ones looked tired, haggard, limp and just plain worn out. Yes, I was able to compare all the old ones with the new ones. Not to mention the 10K worn out spark plugs. Made sense to me that the new plugs would appreciate a nice robust, clean ignition signal instead of a worn out weak signal. At least in my limited understanding of how the sophisticated internal combustion engine works.
Kathy L.
1999 MB
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148845
I mean the 100K worn out plugs and coils.
On Oct 5, 2014 1:35 PM, "Kathy Lautz" kelautz@...> wrote:
1999 MB
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148855
Again, I would like to remind the group I am getting the Spark Plugs changed on my Lazy Daze on October 18th. Ric from Blownoutsparkplug.com is doing the work. We will meet him at his El Cajon location. We will be attending the Lazy Daze Caravan Club outing on October 15 to 18 at Stagecoach RV Park near Julian, CA.   If I can get a couple of people who would like this same work done he (Ric) would be willing to come to where we are camped. Price is $400. So how about it, any takers?

Sandy
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148857
Larry, my check engine light came on.  My scangauge let me read the code, P0353, which indicated a fault with the electronic ignition for cylinder 3.  I made an appointment for service and their diagnosis was that a new plug and coil was needed.
 Plug -List $75.75, unit price $5.26 (don't ask me to explain; that's what the slip says) Coil - List $75.75 unit price $75.75 Labor - $294 Total - $375.01

Ken F in UT
'08 MB
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148864
Well I am not sure why one would think coil packs would wear out. They are basically two pieces of wire some iron and encapsulation. Nothing that I see to wear out, yes they do go bad but I would be more worried about infant morality in a whole new set of coils than I would of old coils. My 5.4 has 172,000 on it and I have no intention of changing any of the coils until they show sign of failure..
I also have no idea of why labor would be 250 to change one coil pack. Must be some troubleshooting time involved.. Not to mention that the decent diagnostic tools start around 10k..
Garry
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148866
Well I am not sure why one would think coil packs would wear out.  They are basically two pieces of wire some iron and encapsulation. Nothing that  I see to wear out, yes they do go bad but I would be more worried about infant  morality in a whole new set of coils than I would of old coils.
Garry

What is infant morality? Tom
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148874
Spell checker got me , but it is the term often used when electronic equipment fails early. High failure rates early but as bad parts are weeded out the failure rate drops considerably then may go back as wear or stress begins to cause the failures. But I don't see the wear issue in coils, but I have seen new coils fail early.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infant+mortality is one place that talks about it..

And even though I can't spell I did work on many types of electro-mechanical devices from 1967 until I retired in 2009. I saw several instances of this issue. In a coil it would most likely be a bad potting process that lets moisture in. The thing is there really isn't anything to wear out in a coil. A bad plug can put stress on a coil. There may be certain coil over plugs that are prone to failure due to thermal cycling  or other effects that I am not aware of but in general that doesn't seem true of most Ford products.
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148883
Hi Group,

Back on Oct. 4 in message 148828, I replied to the original message in this thread; I made an error when I said the dealership replaced my coil packs. What actually happened was they started the spark plug replacement job and the first two "coil boots" were cracked and crumbling and asked for approval to replace them all.

The coil boots are what I would consider to be a newer version of spark plug wires.

Sorry it took this long to correct my error.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148884
"What actually happened was they started the spark plug replacement job and the first two "coil boots" were cracked and crumbling and asked for approval to replace them all.

Steve K

The spark plug boots are a normal replacement item. I bought a set since they were 11 years old and  brand-name replacements are not that expensive online. A pack of ten boots were $31 (+ shipping) at Rock Auto.
You also buy them locally if you need one or more, they are widely stocked.
Dirty coil and boot.
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/14267739737/in/set-72157644831463520 Cleaned coil with new boot https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/14452863802/in/set-72157644831463520 My LD's boots were all  looked good at 80,000 miles but changed anyway since they were already had them. None of the coils had any visible damage

Excessive damage to the coil and boot can be caused by the heat from a slightly leaking spark plug.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148885
A pack of ten boots were $31 (+ shipping) at Rock Auto.

--- Our rigs are the same year (well, almost!), so what boot pack brand and part number is appropriate? I didn't see Motorcraft OEM listed; did I miss it or what is the acceptable alternative?

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148889
"Our rigs are the same year (well, almost!), so what boot pack brand and part number is appropriate? I didn't see Motorcraft OEM listed; did I miss it or what is the acceptable alternative?"

Joan

Both of our LDs are 2003 E450s. We picked up one of the first 2003s, your LD was one of the last of the 2003s.
I quoted the Denso price (part # 6710001) since it was the only decent brand selling a pack of 10. All the other brands are sold individually.

Other boots worth considering AUTOLITE Part # 500031 ACDELCO Part # 16002 NGK Part # 58901

I used the following parts during the spark plug change.
Parts from Rock Auto.
AUTOLITE Part # XP103  Iridium XP Spark plugs- with rebate NGK Part # 58901  Coil on Plug Boot    I'm a fan of NGK parts, usually top notch.

I do wonder about how many coils have been replaced as they are not a normal wear item.
The boots are a wear item.
Any of our motorhome built in 1997 or newer have an emission monitoring system call OBDII. It monitors the performance of the engine, especially the emissions.
If problems are seen, the computer turns on the 'Check Engine' light (CEL) and set a code(s).
If a cylinder has multiple misfires during a measure time, a P0300 series code (Misfire detected) will be set. Many mechanics will automatically install a new coil and plug in any misfiring cylinder. When I hear of two, three, even four coils replaced at once, you have got to wonder what's up? With three or four misfiring cylinders, you would really notice the loss of power and the odd sounds.
Unfortunately true troubling shooting skills are rare in today's automotive mechanics. I had a lot personal experience hiring and supervising them when I was employed. Everything has become so technical that it can take years to accumulate enough base knowledge, if you care to continuously study or take classes, most people don't.
A CEL code is only a notice that something isn't right in a particular part or system but there can be many reasons why a problem occurs or an effect is noticed.
Misfires can be caused by a bad coil and by many other things.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148893
As I am getting ready to change my plugs thanks for the info on replacing boots. Since mine has 81K assuming it needs new boots as well. Is it advisable to degrease the engine before plug R&R? I don't want anything to get in and my engine is dusty from the desert.

Bob 01 23.5 TK with toys Eagle Point, OR. for a few...
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148894
Thank you, Mr. Wade; I have printed out your reply and added it to my folder of "pearls"!

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148895
"mine has 81K assuming it needs new boots as well. Is it advisable to degrease the engine before plug R&R? I don't want anything to get in and my engine is dusty from the desert."

Bob

It certainly couldn't hurt.
The spark plugs are located in 3' deep holes, down in the head.
Before removing the coils, I first vacuumed as much dirt out as possible.
You will then need a good supply of compressed air to blow out the spark plug holes, preferable a nozzle that can bent or twisted to blow straight down into the spark plug holes, before removing the plugs.  My LD had pounds of dust sitting holes that didn't vacuum out.
You must get them clean before loosening or removing the plugs to prevent dirt from entering the spark plug holes.

One suggested method use has the coils remove and each spark plug loosened 1/4 turn, the coil are then temporally reinstalled and the engine fired for just a few seconds. This allow gas escaping around the threads to blow the threaded hole clean of dirt and carbon build up in the threads. This is a good idea if the plugs do not exit easily, you will feel the plug getting jammed in the carbon. With the minimal amount of aluminum threads, forcing the plugs outs should be avoided to prevent damaging the threads.

One tool recommended by the Santa Ynez Blown Spark Plug guy was to use a 7-mm 1/4" flex socket to access the screws that secure the coils.
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-80253-4-Inch-Drive-Socket/dp/B002YKBL5W

Besides removing the doghouse, consider removing the two front seats for better access.
8 out of the 10 plugs are changed from inside the cab. With the seats gone, you have plenty of room to get to the rear of the engine.

V10 spark plug change https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157644831463520/show

You sure you want to do this? Patience and longs arms are an asset.

Larry
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
 
Re: Spark Plugs info, coil pk questions
Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 148899
"You sure you want to do this?" Well now I am having my doubts but I can't find any good mechanics here in hillbilly land. I am concerned a shop would not take the time to clean the area well around the plugs. Larry, I will email you about this.

Bob 01 23.5 TK with toys