Re: black tank flush kit Reply #25 – May 06, 2014, 05:38:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146120With regard to the composting toilet idea, the decision should be partly based on how much time you plan to spend in the motorhome. My sister installed one in her boat, thinking it was a great idea, but then realized when living aboard full time with her husband that the system couldn't handle constant full time use as gracefully as one would hope. It worked great for part timing. Also, when something went wrong, it was a real drag to live with.Good luck! Cynthia
Re: black tank flush kit Reply #26 – May 06, 2014, 06:27:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146121"you would still have the gray water tank to deal with so either way, you must dump your tank regularly (or do composting toilet users dump this on the ground too?"From what I've read, most of them do exactly that when boondocking. This is illegal in most places I've boondocked, including BLM and Forest Service dispersed camping, but those laws are hard to enforce.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: Squeaky clean tanks!!! Reply #27 – May 06, 2014, 06:45:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146122Kadovnotvodka suggested that " 'properly' cleaning the tanks by refilling and emptying repeatedly until 'clear'" was the only way to clean a tank. In 5 1/2 years of fulltiming I have NEVER done so.I have a rinse fitting in the upstream tank wall of my black water tank and a rinse spray on my Camco dump fitting. When I dump the black water tank (every other grey tank dump), I let everything run out, then I connect a hose to the tank rinse fitting. I let it run until the outflow through the clear Camco fitting looks clear. That usually takes about a minute. That would equate to 1 or 2 gallons through that constricted fitting. I then move the hose to the Camco fitting and jet the other end of the tank for half a minute or so, again until I am seeing no debris. That covers the regular dumping. About twice a year, I will flush the tank this way, then add about 5 gallons, or a little under 1/4 tank, of warm water and about a half cup of laundry detergent. I then find an uneven road and drive for about 15 or 20 minutes, sloshing the warm water around on the inside of the tank. Finally, I get 2 bags of ice and put them in the tank, then drive back to the campground while the ice abrades any material clinging to the walls, where I dump again and flush again. This second flush takes much less time and water than the first one does. At the end of this process my SeeLevel gauge reads empty for the black water tank, suggesting that while the tank may not be sterile, any heavy accumulation has been removed.So, most of the time, I use perhaps 3 gallons of water about every 15 days to flush my black water tank. That is 24 dumps per year or roughly 75 gallons per year. Adding to that is about 15 gallons for those two semi-annual cleanings. My fresh water tank lasts me 10 days for a consumption of 6 gallons per day or 2190 gallons per year.My total annual fresh water usage is therefore about 2190 + 75 + 15 or 2280 gallons. About 4% of my water usage is for flushing out my tank.Given that typical water usage in a stick house is about 55 gallons per person per day (some sources say as much as 100 gallons per day - see http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html), or over 20,000 gallons per year, I am quite comfortable using 90 gallons of water per year to clean my black water tank.Ken F in OR
Re: Squeaky clean tanks!!! Reply #28 – May 06, 2014, 06:49:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146123"cleaning the tanks by refilling and emptying repeatedly until 'clear' seems to make up for any H2O savings..."Ah, I see where you got the impression that flushing tanks is wasteful. True, one member recently described doing that, and yes, repeatedly filling and emptying a 25-30 gallon holding tank would use up a lot of water.But most of us don't do it that way. The blast from a Hydroflush or a properly maintained (I'll trust Larry on this) rinsing nozzle can quickly clean a tank with only a couple gallons of water. Thus, water use in flushing is minimal.Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Squeaky clean tanks!!! Reply #29 – May 06, 2014, 08:56:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146125I use maybe 2 gallons of water to flush my tanks. You don't need to fill and drain the entire tank. Have you full timed in an RV for any length of time? Doesn't sound like it. There are some very experienced RVers in this group. Listen to them and learn.Bob
The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #30 – May 06, 2014, 11:55:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146126Thanks, All, for the additional insights on tank cleanage and blackwater husbandry. I'm learning, slowly. There's a lot of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" wisdom that is now sinking in. Andy and Larry, I feel like I'm in the company of Royalty now that you both have responded to my naive theories. And I'm glad I'm not being judged by Lazy Daze people because I already don't power wash and autoclave the black tank in my SOB after every use. You're correct, we're not going to be drinking out of it so excessive cleanliness is pointless. However, I feel like I'm on a (bog) roll here. Leslie Voodoo, the producer of the "graphic" video up-thread, posted a followup to that video that's spectacularly worse, showing what happens when the #1 system gets clogged up with the peat moss that's only supposed to go into the #2 system, which is totally not designed to handle anything but solids. I'm NOT posting that video here. You're welcome. All I can say is she's got a lot of patience and an amazing work ethic to get that mess under control without resorting to a jackhammer and substance abuse. All while recording it on video and posting it to YouTube. Brave young lady, in every way. She does expose a significant design flaw in the Nature's Head -- you don't dare turn your back on it or it will totally get away from you. I don't see any kind of sanitary way to empty it even if it doesn't run amok. So that particular model is definitely off my list. I'm still waffling between either leaving things completely stock and letting Dear Husband deal with the inevitable (he considers it cheap entertainment (except for that one time in Victorville) and that's JUST FINE with me) .... ... Or a composting system with a way to isolate the actual waste receptacle from the actual fixture so it can be emptied and cleaned without actually uninstalling the entire system and actually dragging the whole thing outside. From what I've read on this list, y'all get plenty of that "disassemble with explosives" experience just changing a light bulb in a Lazy Daze.The score so far:Nature's Head: 0 Separette Villa: 1 Bog-standard (as it were) RV toilet gets a bye this round, but there's an "RV Toilet versus Separette" video in my playlist that promises an exciting match for the next round of the Tournament of Toilets.
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #31 – May 08, 2014, 09:31:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 146137A couple of additional points to ponder on the matter of RV poop: All the dump stations and full-hookup spots I've seen are tubes about 5" in diameter...how does one wrangle a bag or pot of collected poop and paper into that tube? As well, one would need to wear a full hazmat suit and mask because of splash-back...one never knows how high the water level is in underground vaults. As to reconfiguring the LD toilet and/or tanks...what might that do to resale value? Modifications of that sort will likely narrow the market considerably.TinaP 2006 MB Just back from our annual 7-month ramble...literally coast to coast to coastOn Tuesday, May 6, 2014 11:55 PM, "gwensmailinglists@..." wrote:
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #32 – May 08, 2014, 04:27:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146145As I understand it, the pee bottle (if that's what the particular unit uses) gets poured down the drain at the dump station, or flushed down a regular toilet. Nature's Head and a few others work that way. The newest Gone with the Wynns blog has a video showing how to initialize and dump the compost into a trash bag by disassembling and removing the base and upending it. Don't worry, the video simulates the real thing with harmless coconut fiber. My current fave is the "Separette" which has a liquid diverter that can go directly into the RV holding tank, and dumped from the tank in the usual way (or I guess collected in a bucket and drained or flushed). Solids for this model are collected in a bucket lined with a biodegradable plastic bag below the seat, where they dry out rather than decay. The instrux say to open the hatch, throw a lid on the bucket, take the bucket out and either let it continue to decompose in the bucket, bury it, compost it in the normal way, overboard it (if at sea) or put it in the trash. It comes with three buckets, so you don't have to make up your mind right away. Disposable diapers are accepted in landfills as long as they're bagged, so there's no reason why the dehydrated dooks wouldn't be, as long as they're in a trash bag. Here's a "safe for work and/or lunch" video showing the installation and operation of the Separette. Separett Villa 9000 InstallationWhat I like about that one is there's less risk of actual contact with the contents, and the unit itself stays inside and doesn't come in direct contact with what you'll eventually be getting rid of. With the Nature's Head, there isn't any practical way to line the container, so emptying it is quite a production. As far as resale value goes, installation appears to be fully reversible -- just remove and store the existing toilet, cap off the water line, insert a plug in the hole that goes to the black tank, and install the composting version in its place. When it's time to sell, reinstall the normal toilet, patch any holes you made for ventilation, reconnect whatever needs it, and you're done.
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #33 – May 08, 2014, 05:27:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146148I really don't understand your preoccupation with toilets and poop disposal. Isn't there something more pleasant to talk about? Do what you will but do we need to hear the details?Peace Life is good Bob 01 23.5 TK, Jeep Cherokee Toad
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #34 – May 08, 2014, 07:10:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146150While we're on this subject, was it a Lazydaze member that posted about a new holding tank enzyme/bacteria product sometime last month? I need the info again, cause I lost it. Hope it was here I read it, cause the other place I might have seen it has been down for a week due to spammers.Thanks,Ron C
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #35 – May 08, 2014, 08:29:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146155"Do what you will but do we need to hear the details?"Well, to be fair, there are probably many here who would say that about coffee, internet connection methods, GPSs, and other topics that have been discussed in detail here in the past. But I have to say that since nobody here is using a composting toilet in an RV, and the consensus among our members is that the drawbacks outweigh the advantages, perhaps this isn't the best place to go into excruciating detail about the various schemes.For those who want to play with this kind of thing as a hobby (since as Ken Fears pointed out, its use in a small RV can't be justified in economic or conservation terms), there are better places to discuss it, such as the Yahoo groups compost-toilet, C-Head, compost-toilet_info, Humanure, ecojohn, SunMarToilets and so on. I suggest moving the discussion to one of these appropriate venues.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #36 – May 08, 2014, 09:28:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146160I for one have found this discussion to be very interesting. Just as mothers can't avoid changing diapers, RVers can hardly avoid understanding poop disposal. If some LD owners agree that they already have it all figured out so we shouldn't talk about alternatives, we may never learn new methods. Besides I love kadovnotvodka's witty sense of humor and way with words. You go, girl! 1 Likes
Re: The Tournament of Toilets, or that "not-so-fresh feeling" ... Reply #37 – May 08, 2014, 10:15:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146163"As I understand it, the pee bottle (if that's what the particular unit uses) gets poured down the drain at the dump station, or flushed down a regular toilet. ...The instrux say to open the hatch, throw a lid on the bucket, take the bucket out and either let it continue to decompose in the bucket, bury it, compost it in the normal way, overboard it (if at sea) or put it in the trash. It comes with three buckets, so you don't have to make up your mind right away. "So, exactly what is the advantage to this system? You need a legal and sanitary place to dispose of the liquids (a toilet or sump station is mentioned) and the same for the solids. There is a lot of manual handling of the 'materials' and the "let it continue to decompose in the bucket," method is sure to impress your fellow campers or host. Dumping any type of sewage overboard, in coastal waters, is heavily regulated by the Feds . The whole idea hovers on the edge of legality and practicality, without a long list of benefits. Composting toilets are excellent for use in remote cabins or places where the lack of water or suitable land, for a septic system, makes them practical. RVs, at best, do not have sewage processing system, instead we have short-term holding systems that are designed to keep things sanitary and smelling so-so.. Spending five or ten mimutes, every few days, at a dump station, minimizes my exposure to any bad things. Carrying a macerator pump takes cares of many situations where a dump station isn't close by. It can use it to dump into a home's sewer or septic system, useful for driveway camping. I seriously doubt if LD's Steve is going to go along with plan and install one of these so you will need to have it done after you pick it up. I would suggest trying it the way it is for a while before the surgery, you might be surprised how simple it is.Larry
Like falling in love all over again Reply #38 – May 08, 2014, 11:42:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146165Andy, thanks for the suggested alternate venues. I'll go sign up for those now and probe the collective wisdom of my own kind while trying not to think about tires and toads and satellite TV. And corn. Larry, thanks for the mental image -- it's somewhere between hilarious and horrifying. However I end up managing my environmental footprint, it won't happen until well after cash and keys have changed hands and we're safely over the county line. 1 Likes
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #39 – May 09, 2014, 11:40:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 146174Bob, irrespective of how you feel about this topic I would prefer that you keep your insulting and rude comments to yourself.This isn't the way people on this group conduct themselves.Jim C
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #40 – May 09, 2014, 12:23:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146175I would agree that perhaps my comments were a bit rude and for that I apologize. I value this group and what I learn here. But I don't want it to be clogged up with comments about poop disposal. Does anyone? As RVer's this is the most unpleasant task we have. It's a nice day, weather is great, I can think of so much more pleasant things to talk about. I got the desired results so my input wasn't all bad.Have a great day.Bob Lodi, CA. for a few....
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #41 – May 09, 2014, 01:11:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146184"I don't want it to be clogged up with comments about poop disposal. Does anyone? As RVer's this is the most unpleasant task we have."Waste management is as much a part of RVing as barbecuing or making coffee--in fact, it's the natural result of those activities. Granted, sewage disposal is not the most pleasant topic, but learning to do it well is important to all of us, so it's a topic worth discussing here. The gory details of composting toilets, however, are probably best discussed in forums on that specific topic.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #42 – May 09, 2014, 01:25:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146186I agree. As these poop comments were posted I happened to be enjoying a glass of what I think is the best Zinfandel in the world, and it spoiled it. No more comments from me. Everyone have a great day!Thanks, Bob Lodi, CA. for a bit... Zinfandel capitol of the world
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #43 – May 09, 2014, 02:29:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146192I totally agree, Andy. Waste management is a part of RVing and a necessary topic to discuss, especially for new RVers! I hope kadovnotvodka will not abandon this group. I have enjoyed her comments. To Bob I would say, there's always something interesting to read here. If you can't stomach a particular topic, feel free to skip over it! (Especially don't watch a graphic video on composting if the subject disgusts you!)I've been following this group for years and I've learned a lot from it. We originally full-timed in a Foretravel for 3 years after Ron retired. Now we're back in Texas growing pecans, but keep our second Lazy Daze close at hand for quick trips. Thanks again for all the good info over the years, Andy. And thanks to all the good natured members of this group who share their great information and have always been tolerant and kind to newbies.Betty Jones 2011 MB "Lonesome Dove"
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #44 – May 09, 2014, 05:43:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146196This is the dark side of Rving.--Mike Williams
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #45 – May 09, 2014, 08:38:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146199Well I look at gas mileage in two ways. One miles per gallon. yes the LD with the v-10 gets around 8 mpg. But all LDs meet the California pollution standards when they leave the factory. California has the most rigid pollution controls in the U.S. So the LD is not polluting that much david miller 2005 LD 30rbedroom
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #46 – May 09, 2014, 08:42:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 146200I work with a non profit called "Clean water for the world". We work to bring safe drinking water to emerging countries. Recently we were speaking to a person in El Salvador, who was utterly amazed that we flush our waste in our toilets with clean drinking water! There are so many people in the world who have no access to clean water let alone flush their waste with it . Maybe this is not the place to make this comment but my wish is that maybe we RVer's should consider spending more of our time considering ways of eliminating the plight of those who drink contaminated water and not on what's the best way to keep our holding tanks pristine. Peace,Larry Paulik
Re: ORWAN may have a name soon. Reply #47 – May 15, 2014, 02:11:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 146292I finally installed the TST today. I ordered 4 additional sensors, so had a pool to draw from in sorting through to get the most accurate ones. Good thing too, as my results were not encouraging. I used two digital and one analog gauge - they were mostly in agreement with each other with a total spread of 2 psi.2 sensors were spot on, 1 psi low 2 sensors were 2 psi low 5 sensors were 5 psi low 1 sensor was 6 psi lowOne of the above would transmit it's ID code to the monitor, but would never transmit any date. I replaced the battery and the sensor functioned as expected, though still low.I removed all the anti-theft housings. One of the sensors looked as if it may have been used, as there was a label, partially torn off, with some Chinese writing on it. A quick Google search and I had it translated, "Help, I am being held prisoner in a Chinese tire pressure monitor factory. I set pressures all low so . . . (then the scribbling stopped)". Alright, I may have made that part up.How much over normal cold pressure are people setting the "high pressure" alarm?thanks,bumper
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