tankless water heaters January 19, 2014, 07:56:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144627thinking about a tankless water heater. Any experiences pro or con Thanks Ted
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #1 – January 19, 2014, 09:38:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144629I assume you're talking about electric water heaters. Have you looked at the power requirements? Last time I checked, they were way too high for a 30-amp RV setup.Aside from that, these tankless devices won't fit where the standard Atwood heater is located, so you'd be facing major plumbing and carpentry work.And I have to ask... what would be the benefit? I run my water heater for just 15-20 minutes every morning, and that gives me all the hot water I need. Its propane use is negligible. It's difficult to imagine how a tankless heater could save me any money compared to my current setup.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #2 – January 19, 2014, 10:05:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144631Tankless water heaters are generally gas ( I assume they can be converted to propane). They light when a hot water faucet is turned on and heat the water as it runs through the pipes above the flames. Turn the water off and the flames go off. I have no idea, if they are available for RVs, but as far as size goes, the large whole house model I grew up with in Germany was no larger than a 6 gallon water heater. I would love to have one, but that wouldn't increase the size of my fresh water or the gray water tank:( Ilse
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #3 – January 20, 2014, 02:00:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 144635Tankless water heaters are generally gas ( I assume they can be converted to propane). They light when a hot water faucet is turned on and heat the water as it runs through the pipes above the flames. Turn the water off and the flames go off. I have no idea, if they are available for RVs, but as far as size goes, the large whole house model I grew up with in Germany was no larger than a 6 gallon water heater. I would love to have one, but that wouldn't increase the size of my fresh water or the gray water tank:( IlseI have over 45 years in the plumbing industry and the tank less heater is the biggest joke on the American people. First is the cost of the unit and they still only have a 10 warranty. And it MAY be a pro rated one. I have not checked for that. If you buy a top of the line standard water heater you will be far ahead. This tank will have a 10 or 12 year full replacement warranty (not pro rated) They have a 2" foam insulation not 1". If the tank fails with in 10/12 years the manufacture will replace the tank for free. The pilots today are much smaller than they were 6 or so years ago. The tank that I put in my house had a pilot light so small that when I lite it I could not see it or the light that it was putting off. I just about called the supply house to complain that the unit was not working. When I go away for more than a week I was turning the burner off. I have now found that the pilot allow will heat the tank to 120* by it self. Water heaters have a max of 40,000 BTU burner. My tank only lights if I use the shower or DW in most case. The pilot will keep the tank hot. The sizing of the tank less heaters is figured by the number of major fixtures. Each shower or dish washer is a major fixture. If you have 3 major fixtures you will most likely need a unit that burns 150,000 BTU and a 4 major unit will be a 200,000 BTU. Compare that to a HWT that is 40,000 BTU. The boiler that heats my house is only 65,000 BTU. If we take 4-15 minute showers a day and run the dish washer I could heat the house for the whole day with that gas on a cold day. With a tank less heater you need to draw .4 to .6 gallons of water per minute to get the tank to turn on. If you run the lav facet slow while washing the tank will not turn on. Now you are wasting water and it is hot water. I just checked 3 manufactures and none of them make a unit for a MH. And it would take a 30 or 40 amp breaker to run an electric unit. But all gas units can be converted to run on propane.George
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #4 – January 20, 2014, 08:23:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 144637My folks had a Class C motorhome (Maybe an El Dorado?) that came factory equipped with a tankless water heater. That was back in the mid-70's, and it was quite a novelty at the time. Our son lived 23 years in Germany, and on the times when we went there for a visit, I didn't notice any difference in operation between what we have here in the U.S. and in their houses. The tankless heater is common in Europe unlike the U.S. Perhaps they know something we don't. I notice that even Costco is selling them now. For homes, not RV's.Dick
Re: [LD] RE: tankless water heaters Reply #5 – January 20, 2014, 09:00:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 144639"Tankless water heaters are generally gas ( I assume they can be converted to propane)."Yes, there are propane-powered tankless water heaters."I have no idea, if they are available for RVs" Yes, they are available for RVs...some of the high-end all-electric Class A's probably have electric tankless water heaters. Our SOB came with a tankless water heater -- it's not something we would have ordered -- and I don't like it. Someone said that it takes a good flow of water to get the water hot and remain hot, but on ours, a good flow of water turns the water cold. We have learned that in order to have the water at least warm enough for a shower, we have to turn the water flow on low. We've learned to live with it, but would I have another one, even in a home? Absolutely NOT!Linda Hylton
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #6 – January 20, 2014, 10:42:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 144640Thanks for the info on tankless water tanks. Another question. When our water gets hot the pressure relief valve releases water. Any ideas why? Do prv's go bad?
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #7 – January 20, 2014, 11:29:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 144641jeri9074 asked, "When our water gets hot the pressure relief valve releases water. Any ideas why? Do prv's go bad?"I have not been RVing long but will hazard a guess. Water has a couple of properties, it is not copressable and when it is heated expands. If some water did not go out the pressure relief valve something would break. I learned from this forum that when I want to turn on the water heater I should turn off the water pump and open a hot water faucet.Actually it seems to be a good idea to leave the water pump off when not using water. I also been converted to the practice of not hooking up to a outside water source for a number of reasons.I have only been RVing a short while. If one of the people who have been RVing longer than I speak up you would do well to follow their advice instead of mine. John
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #8 – January 20, 2014, 11:52:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 144642"When our water gets hot the pressure relief valve releases water. Any ideas why? Do prv's go bad?"Pressure release valves do go bad but before replacing it, try this. Turn the water pump off and then open the water heater's pressure release valve and let the water flow until it stops. This will re-establish the air pocket inside the heater's tank. which helps prevent drippage. Slight drippage is normal. The tanks can also be drain by removing the drain plug. I find the semi-annual pulling of the drain plug and flushing the tank helps prevent the drippage problem, by keeping the air pocket present. The air pocket will slowly decrease as the air is absorbed into the water, requiring the periodic re-establishing of the air pocket.When flushing, use the right tool to keep from damaging the inside of the tank. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/Water-Heater-Tank-Rinser/49070/&?&affiliateid=3274&cvsfa=2734&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3439303730&gclid=CKvI-6ynjbwCFax_QgodNQgARw Work the tool into the drain hole from all directions to break up and flush hard water deposits. If the tank is dirty, you will end up with a driveway full of soft chunks of calcium, it will look like small hail.Larry
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #9 – January 21, 2014, 12:05:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 144657"When our water gets hot the pressure relief valve releases water. Any ideas why? Do prv's go bad?"45 years a plumber.First it is a TP (Temperure/Pressure) valve not pressure relief. In most case we make them go bad. The manufacture says to test them once a year by lifting the handle. You would be better off to replace the unit every 10 years than to test it. It is the Pressure side of the valve that is the problem. When you start to heat the water you raise the temp about 90*.As the water heats it expands. This raises the pressure in the plumbing system from the pump to the last faucet. When the pressure reaches 150 PSI the PT valve will start to drip/run. The standard tank will turn off at 140*. As the TP valve starts to age it will build up a lime deposit??? If you lift the handle you risk the chance of some lime or rust getting on the seat and washer and the valve may or may not reseat. If it does not reseat you will loose water the whole trip until you replace the valve. If you are dry camping you will be up shitt creek with out a paddle. To relieve the pressure open any faucet in the camper for just a second and drain a cup or two of water.TP valve will close and reset. Do not open the PT valve. You should only need to do this once; twice at the most the FIRST time the tank is heated. After that you are not heating the whole tank. Best way to help solve this problem is to remove the 140 temp switch and replace with a 120. Now you will only be heating the water to 120 not 140; Think of the propane that this will save you. Before I changed the temp control I would only run the tank for 20 minutes before taking a shower; now I leave the tank on all the time. After the tank runs for about 10 minutes open a valve in the camper and release a cup or two of water and the pressure will drop. You can get the replacement temp switch for less than $5.00 at Granger. Check on web. Granger.com It will take your grandson 10 minutes to install with a little mod of bending 3 tabs on the heater frame.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #10 – January 21, 2014, 02:42:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144662Spambox,I assume you mean Grainger, not Granger When I searched for temperature switch at Grainger, I only got two at $277 each.Can you give a better link to the model you are referring to?Thanks.Barry...... . You can get the replacement temp switch for less than $5.00 at Granger. Check on web. Granger.com It will take your grandson 10 minutes to install with a little mod of bending 3 tabs on the heater frame.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #11 – January 21, 2014, 05:34:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144668If you want to change the thermostat in your Atwood water heater to an adjustable one, use Atwood's adjustable thermostat, the one made for your water heater.. It is a easy to install, direct replacement, not an adaptation of some other part. http://www.amazon.com/ATWOOD-PRODUCTS-Adjustable-Electronic-Thermostat/dp/B001BZ36HM http://www.adventurerv.net/atwood-water-heater-adjustable-electronic-thermostat-93105-p-29473.htmlSince the thermostat is a safety item, stay with Factory parts. No need to reinvent the wheel.Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #12 – January 22, 2014, 01:49:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 144680I assume you mean Grainger, not Granger When I searched for temperature switch at Grainger, I only got two at $277 each.Can you give a better link to the model you are referring to?Thanks.BarrySorry about that Barry. You are right with Grainger. ComHere are 3 units6UDZ0 Open at 125 $6.292FBT7 Open at 125 $1.756UDY9 Open at 120 $6.29 The one that I got opens at 125 and closes at 115 So the water temp will be a high of 125 and low of 115 If I were to redo it I would go with the 120. 120 is more than hot enough and it would come back on at 110 which would still be hot enough. The price's have gone up a little since I got mine 2 years ago. Since I made the change I no longer turn the gas off once the tank is hot. With the lower settings the HWT does not run near as much. If you pull your unit out You should see 3 tabs that hold the unit in. You need to bend these under so the new unit will fit in. The base is just a little bigger. Then use 2 screws to hold the new unit in. I used 2 small bolts and tapped the tin that you will see around the tank. Once you have the part the job will take less than 10 minutes.George
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #13 – January 22, 2014, 03:48:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144696Thanks George.From: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:49 AM To:lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [LD] RE: tankless water heatersYou are right with Grainger. ComHere are 3 units6UDZ0 Open at 125 $6.292FBT7 Open at 125 $1.756UDY9 Open at 120 $6.29 The one that I got opens at 125 and closes at 115 So the water temp will be a high of 125 and low of 115If I were to redo it I would go with the 120.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #14 – January 22, 2014, 04:24:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144697If you make the change please post what you think for me and others. If you wish you can E-mail me direct If you need more information e-mail and we can get togeather on the phone if you want more informationGeorge Thanks George.From: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:49 AM To:lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [LD] RE: tankless water heatersYou are right with Grainger. ComHere are 3 units6UDZ0 Open at 125 $6.292FBT7 Open at 125 $1.756UDY9 Open at 120 $6.29 The one that I got opens at 125 and closes at 115 So the water temp will be a high of 125 and low of 115If I were to redo it I would go with the 120.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #15 – January 22, 2014, 05:33:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144699I've got to see on the LD water heater where the thermostat is, and how difficult it is to access before I make up my mind whether to try to change it. The current one has not really been that much of a problem. I did find a Grainger's in San Antonio, but need to call them to see if they stock the 6UDY9BarryBarry I have a 2005 24' LD If you open the access door on the out side you will see a peace of foam midcenter just to the right. At the bottom of the foam are the words ECO and TSTAT There are 4 wire clips there. The 2 wire clips on the right are on the T STAT. pull them off. peal the foam back on the right and you will see the stat. Look at the stat. You will see 3 metal tabs that hold the stat in place. If you turn the stat you will see where there is an opening for the stat to pop out. Turn the stat and then lift out. Stat removed. This stat will not look like the one in the Grainger book that I have listed. The base on the new unit is bigger round than the old unit. It looks like the new unit will not fit. You will need to bend the 3 tabs a little with a pair of neddle nose plires so that the new stat will enter the hole and rest against the tank. Place 2 screws in the ears of the new stat and tighten just enough to hold the stat against the tank. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN. Cut a hole in the foam for the new stat. (Round plastic body) and slit the foam for the 2 electrical tabs to fit through. Replace the foam over the stat and replace the two wires. Light the WH and test. It will take about 20/25 minites for the heater to come up to temp and shut off the first time with a cold tank. The stat that you will remove and the new stat all have a 10* differencel. They turn off at and back on when the temp drops 10*. When I had the old stat I would let the WH run for about 15/20 minutes and turn it off for the day and take my shower. Now I turn the WH on and leave it on all day. I still use less gas than if I turned the tank off for the day. My unit has been in and working now for 2 years. [/i]
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #16 – January 22, 2014, 07:46:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144701I replaced my Atwood water heater's fixed-temperature thermostat with an adjustable one a couple of years ago. I hoped that by turning it down, I could ensure that the heater cut off at the ideal temperature for hot-water-only (no mixing) showering, thus obviating the need for timing or monitoring the water heater with a remote-reading thermometer.What I found was that even when cranked all the way down, Atwood's adjustable thermostat produced water that I found uncomfortably hot (about 115° F.) for showering. Of course personal preferences vary, but for me the replacement thermostat was a waste of money. I left it in place, but went back to using an aquarium thermometer to alert me when the water heater had reached optimum temperature for hot-water-only showering.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #17 – January 22, 2014, 10:44:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144703Our adjustable thermostat is set around 120 degrees to my wife's specification for doing dishes; for showers, we use a thermometer on the tank like Andy does, and a great idea it is. On the old MH, it was an oven thermometer with an alarm I'd set to 105 F, about right for showers, though it took a bit of cold water to temper it.Eric Greenwell wrote, On 1/22/2014 5:46 PM:
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #18 – January 23, 2014, 12:09:36 am Yahoo Message Number: 144706I replaced my Atwood water heater's fixed-temperature thermostat with an adjustable one a couple of years ago. I hoped that by turning it down, I could ensure that the heater cut off at the ideal temperature for hot-water-only (no mixing) showering, thus obviating the need for timing or monitoring the water heater with a remote-reading thermometer.++++++++++++++++++++++++ I wanted to replace my stat but the price of $40+ I said no. Then I got to thinking of the units that we use in the home heating furnace. I found them at Grainger and got a set unit 125* for less then $5. If I were to redo it I would go with the 120*. It would be more than hot enough and the HWH would not go below 110. Since changing the stat I now leave the tank on all the time.
Re: tankless water heaters Reply #19 – January 23, 2014, 02:25:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144711Thanks George, those are excellent directions. I did open the HW heater & the piece of foam was easy to see as you said. I checked with Grainger in San Antonio, & they will have a 6UDY9 ready for me to pick up next week. If & when I get it installed, I will report back to the group on my opinion of how it works.BarryBarry I have a 2005 24' LD If you open the access door on the out side you will see a peace of foam midcenter just to the right. At the bottom of the foam are the words ECO and TSTAT[/i]
2003 30' For Sale on Ebay Reply #20 – January 26, 2014, 07:11:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 144732I saw a posting on Ebay this morning for a 2003 30' IB with 42,000 miles. Looks like a nice one. http://tinyurl.com/odubgkqDick
Re: 2003 30' For Sale on Ebay Reply #21 – January 26, 2014, 07:20:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 144747Here is another one... http://chico.craigslist.org/rvs/4304924211.htmlI would be happy to go look at this if anyone is interested.Gary in Chico
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