Water leak in 1994 TK November 03, 2013, 08:09:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143418We have a fresh water leak in our 1994 TK. I have determined it is NOT the water pump. If the LD is not perfectly level water leaks out to the exterior. If the LD is level water soaks the carpeting around the kitchen. We never use the city water hookup. I have searched the archives and can't find an answer. Our water tank sits underneath the kitchen cabinet. Any idea how to access the tank or where the leak may be coming from? I can't see any easy access short of removing either the range/stove or the entire cabinet. Any ideas how to access the water tank? Problem could be a hose but I can't tell. Problem "stops" when one drains the water tank completely but that doesn't mean it's a leaking tank. Could be something connected to the tank. Or is this a Vince question? Thanks.John A Wozniak
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #1 – November 03, 2013, 08:26:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143419John,Does your water pump cycle on and off periodically when no faucets are open? This is the first thing I would be noticing. If it is, your leaking somewhere. Do you have a swamp cooler? If you do, you might check the line and shutoff valve for the swamp cooler. It's possible that this line taps off your cold water line under your sink, and is leaking at the connection or the shutoff valve.Jim Brenneke
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #2 – November 04, 2013, 05:44:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 143423Quote QuoteDoes your water pump cycle on and off periodically when no faucets are open? This is the first thing I would be noticing. If it is, your leaking somewhere.Yes. I forgot to mention that the water pump cycles on and off when no faucet is open.Do you have a swamp cooler? If you do, you might check the line and shutoff valve for the swamp cooler. It's possible that this line taps off your cold water line under your sink, and is leaking at the connection or the shutoff valve.I looked at this too. Valve is turned all the way clockwise which should be the off position. No evidence of leakage here either.There is no dampness in the under sink cabinet. The last camping trip had the carpeting wet down the middle of the aisle but dry by the water pump under the small kitchen drawers. That's why I don't think the problem is the water pump. I also tried emptying the water tank down to the 3/4 then 1/2 then 1/4 full position hoping if the water tank had a leak in it above that level that the leaking would stop. No luck.John A Wozniak On Nov 3, 2013, at 20:26, Jim Brenneke wrote:QuoteJohn, Does your water pump cycle on and off periodically when no faucets are open? This is the first thing I would be noticing. If it is, your leaking somewhere. Do you have a swamp cooler? If you do, you might check the line and shutoff valve for the swamp cooler. It's possible that this line taps off your cold water line under your sink, and is leaking at the connection or the shutoff valve.Jim BrennekeTo: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com From: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 20:09:36 -0600 Subject: [LD] Water leak in 1994 TKWe have a fresh water leak in our 1994 TK. I have determined it is NOT the water pump. If the LD is not perfectly level water leaks out to the exterior. If the LD is level water soaks the carpeting around the kitchen. We never use the city water hookup. I have searched the archives and can't find an answer. Our water tank sits underneath the kitchen cabinet. Any idea how to access the tank or where the leak may be coming from? I can't see any easy access short of removing either the range/stove or the entire cabinet. Any ideas how to access the water tank? Problem could be a hose but I can't tell. Problem "stops" when one drains the water tank completely but that doesn't mean it's a leaking tank. Could be something connected to the tank. Or is this a Vince question? Thanks.John A Wozniak
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #3 – November 04, 2013, 08:39:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 143426I had a similar leak when I bought my 1997 MB, and it turned out to be a hairline fracture in the filter fitting just before the pump. The simple fix was to bypass the filter with a clear water hose, since I always filter all water going into the tank anyway. It began dripping anytime there was water in the tank. The pump was new and ran perfectly, but although Vince had replaced it the almost invisible leak hadn't stopped.Kristin
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #4 – November 04, 2013, 10:42:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 143434Does it leak when the water system is depressurized? If you turn off the pump and open the cold & hot water taps, does it still leak? You can wrap any waterline you can reach with paper towels and wait to see if one gets damp.From: John To: "lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [LD] Water leak in 1994 TK
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #5 – November 04, 2013, 12:13:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143438John, I had this problem, wet carpet and all, I had two issues the pump housing on my shurflow pump corroded and a small amount of water would weep out of the casing. Oddly It still pumped well. The weight of the water in the tank was enough to push water through the aluminum pump casing over time. Second the drain fitting on the bottom of the tank was leaking and seeped along the floor where the drain pipe touches the sub floor, water would run inside or outside depending on how I was leveled. It would fill my outside compartment with water. Not good! I removed any reinstalled the drain pipe with Teflon sealant from under the LD and of course replaced the 20 year old pump. While I was at it I replaced the plastic drain valve with a 1/4 turn brass ball valve. Much easier to use. Both issues were present with the pump on or off. Access to the pump is a small panel under the sink, remove 6 screws and pull toward you. To see what's going on at the top of the tank pull out the kitchen drawers, you can see the fill, vent and part if the front of the tank. Tank removal is rough I believe it will require removing the face of the cabinet below the drawers and oven. I doubt you tank is damaged. Hope this helps.Sent by wireless
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #6 – November 04, 2013, 12:18:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143440John on my mid bath there is a trough cut into the floor to run electrical from the converter to the battery compartment across the RV, this is original and was created by LD. my pump is mounted near or over the end of this trough and mounted under the sink, Water leak out of the pump and would run across or to the middle and wick up through the carpet into the middle of the floor.Sent by wireless
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #7 – November 04, 2013, 12:23:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143441Pump was replaced about a year ago so unless the tech damaged something that's probably not it. Besides the last leak episode showed no water around the pump.I will check the tank drain. It is a plastic faucet. One would think if that was the problem it would leak all the time not just when not completely level.
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #8 – November 04, 2013, 12:46:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143442Since the pump is cycling with some regularity with all faucets closed, there are only two possibilities.1) There is a leak downstream (output) side of pump . . this leak could be anywhere in the hot or cold pipes. See below for trouble shooting hint.2) There are two unrelated problems. A leak on the tank or input side of the pump AND an internal check valve leak within the pump that allows the output pressure to bleed down so it cycles - - not an entirely unlikely problem by itself, though not at all likely to have both problems at the same time.I vote for #1. To help find this apply compressed air (no more than 60 psi or so) to the output hose of the pump - remove hose, temporarily install quick connect fitting in the removed hose end. Apply pressure with faucets all open and turn them off one by one as air starts to escape from each after purging water. Close the furthest away faucet last so as to help get water out of the pipe low spots. Now wander around listing for the air leak. You can use a kludged stethoscope by touching the tip of a large screwdriver to the surface with the end of the handle at your ear. Or, you can use a real tool as electronic "ear" stethoscopes are inexpensive. In any case, the air leak should be much easier to find than that slow water leak.good luck,bumper
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #9 – November 04, 2013, 12:50:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143444Well this is the best darned advice I've seen so far! Thanks.John A Wozniak
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #10 – November 04, 2013, 02:26:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143447Hi John, The leak can be coming in when you fill the fresh water tank. There is an overflow hose/nozzle that comes out of the fill compartment. If the hose has been pushed bck into the motor home the excess water will leak inside and wet the interior floor under the sink. Take out the draws and look at wall to verify that hose is exiting the RV BOB
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #11 – November 04, 2013, 02:44:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143448Take out the draws and look at wall to verify that hose is exiting the RV I can't do that. That's the point. I can't get to the water tank. It's pretty much sealed behind the kitchen counter. I think everyone is giving me advice for 26 footers and this is a 22 foot 1994 TK. Since 80-90% of the LD's are 26+ footers, I can understand, but that's not what we have. I really appreciate all the advice, though, so keep it coming. Eventually something is going to work. On that score, if Bumper's idea of blowing air into the lines and listening for a leak doesn't work, for whatever reason, then I'm going to fill the water tank to 1/4 full, wait and see if it leaks, if not, fill to 1/2, wait and see, then 3/4 then wait and see. Hate to "wet" the bed so to speak to find the problem, but I may have to.John
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #12 – November 04, 2013, 05:20:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143449UPDATE Well, I found the channel by the water pump that the water could be moving through. But I haven't found where it's leaking. I also looked underneath at the water tank drain and couldn't see any evidence of leakage nor could I see anyway to remove the drain that's on there.I did a slight modification to blowing the lines. I hooked my air compressor to the city inlet, which is what I usually do to winterize the LD. The pressure started at 60 psi with the air compressor off, and the drop was 55 psi after 18 minutes, 42 psi after 23 minutes, and 25 psi after 45 minutes. Unfortunately, it is very windy here today so it was not possible to listen for the air leak. Will try again when things are quieter. Maybe I'll get lucky. Attached is also the floor plan of a 22/24 foot TK. It hasn't really changed from 1994 to 2014. I noted where the water pump is, the water inlet, the water tank drain, and the city inlet. When I take out the bottom drawer of the kitchen cabinet and look inside at the water pump, you can see the side of the water tank. The tank reading sensors are right there. I'm guessing the tank itself may be "L" shaped, but I don't know for sure. I do know it is very close to the water pump. I can't see how one gets at the tank and/or some of the hoses unless you remove the whole kitchen cabinet, but before I do that I'll check with the factory.That is all.John 1994 22' TK
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #13 – November 04, 2013, 05:42:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143450Hi John, After reading through the posts about your problem, I've got a couple thoughts. First, you mentioned that someone had changed the water pump; my first thought is that the water line from the fresh water tank to the water pump might have come loose. I'm not at all familiar with your floor plan, but I think that most RVs have the pump fairly close to the fresh water tank. On my rig, a Mid-bath, there is a hose from the water tank (with a 1/2" threaded connector) and that hose connects to a "strainer" that is then connected to the water pump. Any of those connections could have come loose. Then there is a hose from the outlet of the water pump that connects to the Lazy Daze water lines. Again, that could be the source of the leak. On our rig, that hose routes up from the water pump to a brass connector that connects the pump to the coach's fresh water supply lines. I've installed a few water pumps (thank you Shurflo) and I know how those water lines can come loose. The one constant is that water flows downhill, where you see dampness may not have much to do with *where* the leak begins. The only other thing I can think of is that one of the fittings on the actual fresh water tank has cracked where it connects to the water tank. The inlet from your fresh water fill or the outlet fitting where the hose to the water pump connects to the fresh water tank. I think an actual crack in the tank would be rare unless water froze in the tank.Good luck! Steve K. (Not driving to Wisconsin with lifejackets!)
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #14 – November 04, 2013, 08:07:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143455John, have you or anyone else installed anything on the left/drivers side exterior shower wall or perhaps inside to your cabinetry maybe an accessory soap dish or fire extinguisher etc. The slow pressure drop over an hour could suggest a line may have been punctured with a screw. Otherwise check the back side of your faucets to see if they are tight and dry. also the water heater fittings. While you have the tank empty add a shut off valve between the pump and tank. There are plenty of reasons to do so listed in past messages but for now it could help isolate the tank form the equation.
Re: Water leak in 1994 TK Reply #15 – November 05, 2013, 12:01:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 143460JohnTo change a T/K's pump, pull the kitchen drawers and the bottom one or two drawer slides, for access. It's a difficult area to work in with very limited access, probably the worse of all LDs. Have you checked the pump's inlet and outlet connection and hose clamps?. I have seen many of them loosen and leak, especially if the pump has been replaced recently. You could cut an access panel in the cabinet wall, the one facing toward the entry door, for better access.. Some models have a propane sensor, in that spot, that would need to be accommodated.The water tank is rectangular and appears to be installed before the cabinet is installed. The tank in boxed with the cabinet's framing. There is enough room to install a SeeLevel sensor strip on the side of the tank. The Mothership is your best source of information on how to remove the tank. If you find out, please let us know how it's done..When you use air to pressurize the water lines, swab all accessible lines and fittings with soapy water and then watch for bubbles. Load a spray bottle with soapy water for hard to get to places. For small leaks, try using a gas leak detector fluid. It is a long lasting, thick soap-like solution that will pick up very small leaks, the type that take hours for a small bubble to form.Find it at the home center in the natural gas plumbing section. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-8-oz-All-Purpose-Leak-Detector-302092/100151681 Camco sell a spray bottle leak detector.. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-gas-leak-detector.htm?utm_source=google&utm_medium=partsshopping&utm_campaign=partsfeed&gclid=CJ3ssJKczLoCFeuDQgodN1sACQLarryLarry
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