12v not working October 06, 2013, 11:37:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143042I'm on my way to Florida from Virginia and am stopped for the night. When I left this morning, after unplugging the power cord, I had no 12v power to my interior lights or water pump. I needed to get on the road so I left without doing much troubleshooting, but would love to be able to have these things working for tomorrow's drive. The panel over the stove indicates the house batteries are fully charged. In my 1979 LD, there was a switch to manually change from 120v to 12v when unplugged, but in my 2003 it switches over automatically, but as of this morning, for some reason it's not switching over to 12v. Is there a manual override switch I'm not aware of? If not, any ideas why it isn't switching and what I can do about it?Thanks!Fern
Re: 12v not working Reply #1 – October 07, 2013, 10:35:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 143044Fern, I believe the 12 V/120 V switch in your 1979 Lazy Daze was one that only affected the refrigerator. Many of those older rigs had "three-way" fridges that could run on propane, 120 VAC, or 12 VDC. A switch on the dashboard would let you run the fridge on 12 V while driving, in order to conserve propane.But as far as I know, the old rig's lights and water pump were always powered by 12 V from the batteries. And that is definitely the case with your mid-2000s midbath--the lights and water pump are always on 12V battery power, whether you're plugged in or not. (When plugged in, the converter charges the batteries.) So there's no manual switch to worry about.Since your stove-hood indicators are working, and show that your batteries are charged, you can eliminate that as a possible problem. But I should mention for future reference that if those indicators were *not* working--if you had a complete loss of 12 V power in the coach--there's a little-known master 12 V circuit breaker that you'd want to check. If you pull out the drawer beneath your midbath's fridge, and reach around to the left, you'll find a small black or gray box with a tiny button on top. It doesn't look like the kind of circuit breaker you're used to seeing in your house, but it is one. Pressing the button resets it.Every recent Lazy Daze has one of these master 12 V breakers, but the owner's manual is vague about its location, saying only that it's located within 18" of the batteries. I stuck a label on the wall next to mine, just so I wouldn't forget. I recommend that every LD owner find that breaker now, so you'll know where it is if you ever need to reset it.But as I said, since your stove-hood indicators are lighting up, that breaker isn't the problem. So the next place to look is your fusebox, which is part of the converter--that dark brown panel on the side of your kitchen sink cabinet. Twist the small square catch a quarter turn, and you'll be able to drop the hinged panel and see the fuses.On your midbath, fuse #1 (10 amps) controls the water pump, while #4 and #5 (20 amps) control interior lights. (There should be a printed label inside the fusebox, so if it says something different, trust it, not me. ;-) It would be unusual for several fuses to fail at once, but you should check them just in case. Be aware that a fuse that looks good may not be, so the best way to check is to substitute a known good fuse. I keep spare fuses of various ratings stuck to the inside of that hinged panel with small dabs of mounting putty, so they'll be handy.I hope this helps! Keep us posted.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: 12v not working Reply #2 – October 07, 2013, 12:32:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143045Does your LD have a Magnetek (or Parallax) 6300 series converter/charger? If so, these units have a relay that can stick when disconnecting shore power and this causes a large part of your 12 volt power to disappear. A friend of mine has this problem in his fifth wheel. When it happens he gives the charger/converter a couple of whacks on the lower front panel (the panel below the drop down front door) and normally the relay gets unstuck. Usually there will be a couple of 12 volt circuits in the rig that work even with the relay stuck. Typically they might be the fluorescent lights, but it depends on how Lazy Daze did the wiring. The newer 7300 Series converter/charger units do not have this relay; at least the one in my 2005 MB doesn't.Doug Baker
Re: 12v not working Reply #3 – October 07, 2013, 01:18:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143046"When it happens he gives the charger/converter a couple of whacks on the lower front panel (the panel below the drop down front door) and normally the relay gets unstuck. --- Now, that's my kind of "get a bigger hammer" fix! ;-)Joan
Re: 12v not working Reply #4 – October 08, 2013, 11:14:25 am Yahoo Message Number: 143052Hi Andy, I'm a little confused as I thought that, while the lights and water pump are 12v, when plugged in, the converter takes the 120v and converts it to 12v for those items. I didn't realize it goes through the house batteries for power even when plugged in. Does that mean if the batteries were disconnected the lights and water pump wouldn't work even though plugged into 120v? I don't think I was very clear about the stove-hood indicator lights. I checked them while I was plugged in and showed the batteries fully charged. They didn't light up at all when I was unplugged. I had no 12v power coming through to anything in the rig. When I stopped for lunch yesterday and read your post, I found the 12v master circuit breaker under the fridge, pushed the button, and then had lights and water! So thanks so much for telling me about it! I wonder why Lazy Daze wouldn't include that info in their manual?However, the next time I stopped, I noticed when I turned on the bathroom light that it was rather dim, so I checked the stove-hood indicator light and the battery charge showed "weak." So I evidently still have a problem with the batteries not being fully charged while driving, at least. I haven't checked today after being plugged in all night. If they're not charged now, perhaps I have a converter problem?Thanks again for your help!Fern
Re: 12v not working Reply #5 – October 08, 2013, 05:47:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143055Fern,The first time we killed our house batteries we were new to RVing. When we plugged in at the RV park the lights kept dimming and the TV was acting up. We had no idea what was wrong but we soon found out that our batteries needed replacing! Our converter was fine.Karen - trying to get used to the old folks retirement village ;-)
Re: 12 V not working Reply #6 – October 08, 2013, 07:42:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143057Fern, I'm glad to hear you've narrowed it down to a battery problem. (Or a "batteries not getting charged" problem--it could be either.)."Does that mean if the batteries were disconnected the lights and water pump wouldn't work even though plugged into 120v?"I'm not sure, but I don't recommend doing that, because my understanding is that the batteries act as a kind of stabilizer on the 12 V system. Disconnecting them might let the converter feed excessively high voltage to your 12 V appliances, possibly damaging them. I'm not just thinking of the lights, but the electronic controller boards for the furnace, water heater, and refrigerator. You don't want to do anything to hurt those!"I wonderwhy Lazy Daze wouldn't include that info [about the master 12 V breaker] in their manual?"The manual covers all models, so it was easy for them to just say that the breaker is located "within 18" of the house batteries." But considering how vital that breaker is, I wish they'd included a chart specifying its location in each model!"I evidently still have a problem with the batteries not being fully charged while driving, at least. I haven't checked today after being plugged in all night. If they're not charged now, perhaps I have a converter problem?"Could be. It'll help your troubleshooting if you can determine whether the batteries are being charged by the engine/alternator, the converter, or neither.The Lazy Daze manual suggests the following when batteries aren't charging:1) One or more cells in the house batteries are dry.2) House battery terminals that are loose or corroded.3) A bad cell in one of the house batteries.4) House batteries circuit breaker is tripped. This specially constructed sealed circuit breaker is located inside the house batteries compartment on the rear wall and must be manually reset.5) Loose or rusted nuts in the diode isolator (blue aluminum finned box in engine compartment).6) Faulty diode isolator.That's the order in which I'd check things--the order of likelihood, from most to least. Take a look, and hopefully you'll find that your batteries just need water or have a loose/corroded connection.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: 12 V not working Reply #7 – October 08, 2013, 09:29:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143059"Fern, I'm glad to hear you've narrowed it down to a battery problem. (Or a "batteries not getting charged" problem--it could be either.)." Today I unplugged the RV from 120v power and the batteries appeared to be fully charged. So I'm pretty sure the batteries are fine and it would seem the converter is fine. It seems rather strange that while driving, though, the batteries were not only not charged, but pretty well drained. And that would have happened between the time I pushed the circuit breaker button when I stopped for lunch, and the next time I stopped several hours later.Fern
Re: 12v not working Reply #8 – October 08, 2013, 09:32:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143060"The first time we killed our house batteries we were new to RVing. When we plugged in at the RV park the lights kept dimming and the TV was acting up. We had no idea what was wrong but we soon found out that our batteries needed replacing! Our converter was fine."Oops! I'm not sure what's wrong in my case, but I'm pretty sure now it's neither the batteries nor the converter. Hopefully it's as simple a fix as pushing the master 12v circuit breaker button! Fern
Re: 12 V not working Reply #9 – October 08, 2013, 10:17:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143061I haven't been following this closely, so ... can your refrigerator run on 12 volts (usually called a "three way" system - gas, 120 VAC, and 12 VDC)? I had a similar problem in an SOB, when the refrigerator was running on 12 volts while driving, but the alternator wasn't able to keep up with the current drain, so the batteries lost most of their charge.Eric GreenwellFern wrote, On 10/8/2013 6:29 PM:
Re: 12 V not working Reply #10 – October 08, 2013, 11:51:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143063"It seems rather strange that while driving, though, the batteries were not only not charged, but pretty well drained. And that would have happened between the time I pushed the circuit breaker button when I stopped for lunch, and the next time I stopped several hours later."Fern, one thing that can cause rapid battery drain is if the refrigerator is being powered from the batteries, via an inverter. I don't remember whether or not your rig has this arrangement, but there's an easy way to eliminate this possibility: make absolutely certain that the refrigerator is in LP gas mode, *not* AC or "Automatic." Check the little buttons and lights at the top of the fridge and make sure it's running on propane. Give it a day or two. If the mysterious power drain stops, then that was the problem.I know about this because I have a whole-house inverter that can power the fridge, and I've made this mistake a couple of times. A 30 amp drain (which is what the fridge uses at 12 volts) can deplete your batteries pretty quickly.In the long run, of course, you want to take advantage of campground power to run the fridge when plugged into 120 VAC. But if, in fact, you have a fridge that can be powered by an inverter (meaning by your house batteries), you'll need to remember to put it in LP mode when you leave a hooked-up campsite. You may want to ask the previous owner about whether this is the case.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: 12 V not working Reply #11 – October 09, 2013, 12:24:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 143064I also have a whole-house inverter, and I avoided the problem you mention by rewiring the AC outlet in the frig compartment to AC input of the inverter. That way, the outlet gets AC only from shore or generator power, not from the inverter. I installed a 10 amp 120VAC breaker between the inverter AC input and cable going to the frig compartment socket, which protects the cable from excess current should a short or similar problem occur. Now, I can be as forgetful as I wish, and I don't inadvertently drain my batteries, and I don't have to remember to switch from gas to AC - just leave it on Auto all the time.EricEric Greenwell wrote, On 10/8/2013 8:51 PM:Quote"It seems rather strange that while driving, though, the batteries were not only not charged, but pretty well drained. And that would have happened between the time I pushed the circuit breaker button when I stopped for lunch, and the next time I stopped several hours later."Fern, one thing that can cause rapid battery drain is if the refrigerator is being powered from the batteries, via an inverter. I don't remember whether or not your rig has this arrangement, but there's an easy way to eliminate this possibility: make absolutely certain that the refrigerator is in LP gas mode, *not* AC or "Automatic." Check the little buttons and lights at the top of the fridge and make sure it's running on propane. Give it a day or two. If the mysterious power drain stops, then that was the problem. I know about this because I have a whole-house inverter that can power the fridge, and I've made this mistake a couple of times. A 30 amp drain (which is what the fridge uses at 12 volts) can deplete your batteries pretty quickly.
Re: 12 V not working Reply #12 – October 09, 2013, 11:21:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 143067"I avoided the problem you mention by rewiring the AC outlet in the frig compartment to AC input of the inverter. That way, the outlet gets AC only from shore or generator power..."That's a good solution, Eric. I actually like having the option to run the fridge on inverter power; I routinely do that while driving, because it ensures that I don't have to remember to turn off the fridge while filling up with gasoline or propane. I do have to remember to switch to "LP" when I arrive at a dry-camping site, but I've gotten to be good at that--I haven't forgotten in years. The bottom line is the each way has its advantages, but each way requires us to remember something. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
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