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On the road security
Yahoo Message Number: 141670
After buying my rig last Fall in L.A. (and faced with driving back to Minnesota alone) I read Andy's tips on security and also decided on my own to buy some mace to keep in the "nook" above the entry door. While crossing the border into Canada last month, one of the questions was whether or not I was carrying Mace and I stated that I was. I was informed I could turn around and go back into the U.S. or surrender it. I surrendered it but now I have no mace and am not sure what to do as I plan to cross the border again soon and am defenseless against any intruders.

I don't carry weapons so that wasn't an issue.

Unfortunately, my 2 Bichon's aren't much help either.

Todd
Todd (and Steve)
'17 Winnebago Minnie Winnie and '13 Honda CRV
(Former '99 RB owners from 2012-2016)
Re: On the road security
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141672
Todd:  Two suggestions I have come across that seem effective:  (1) Buy a good quality "kids" plastic squirt gun and fill it with ammonia.  Just as effective as mace and legal anywhere, even Canada, and the article I read says it won't cause any permanent eye damage.    (2) Carry a spray can of wasp spray that will squirt out 20+ feet.   Also legal and very effective.   Personally, I carry a couple cans of wasp spray.  Hope I never have to use it, but it's there.    Gale
G N Wilson
2008 Mid-Bath
Re: On the road security
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141674
Right out of high school, I went to work for a utility company as a meter reader.  We would occasionally run into a really vicious dog, with no way to retreat.  We carried squirt guns filled with ammonia.  They were very effective on dogs, but one day one of the meter readers got some in the eyes of a dog.  The dog was permanently blinded, and the utility company ended up in a lawsuit.  There is no way I would ever squirt ammonia at a person.

Dick
Re: On the road security
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141678
As you found out, Canada won't allow personal-defense sprays (Mace or pepper spray) or guns into the country. They will allow "bear spray" if it is so labeled. Bear spray canisters are generally much larger than pepper spray, so they're clumsier to store and to carry on your person. Yes, I do carry bear spray when hiking--for use against bears or out-of-control dogs.
 With respect to your lament that "I... am defenseless against any intruders," you were probably already effectively defenseless with your Mace canister. Think about what would happen if you used Mace or pepper spray inside your rig. Chemical warfare doesn't work well indoors! ;-) After releasing a cloud of that stuff in a tiny, confined area, in all likelihood you'd end up as incapacitated as the intruder... and you'd have a helluva cleanup job afterward. These sprays are useful outdoors, but in my humble opinion, not inside an RV.
 So what *can* you use against an intruder inside your rig? Well, some carry a gun, but that's a complicated issue. I'm not talking about politics here, I mean that if you own a gun, you need to train with it and regularly practice using it, or it's likely to be taken away from you by that intruder, and used against you. You also have to be cognizant of a maze of state and local gun laws. And of course you can't take it into Canada with you. Gun ownership is a lot more complicated than buying a can of spray (although it's good to get some training with that as well).
 And finally, if you ever had to fire a gun inside your rig, think of all the things you'd be likely to hit--propane-powered appliances (fridge, stove, furnace, water heater) tanks, plumbing, wiring... it's like the Russian sub captain said in "The Hunt For Red October": "Most things in here don't react well to being shot at."
 My suggestion for indoor use--and it's only a suggestion, because thank goodness I've never had to try it out--is a foam fire extinguisher. I keep one in a holder within reach of my bed (as well as in four or five other locations). If I had to confront an intruder, spraying foam in his face would at least temporarily disorient him. Better than nothing... and unlike pepper spray, ammonia or wasp spray, it wouldn't damage the rig, or blind anyone permanently.
 Realistically, the chances of being attacked inside your rig are probably much less than those of being mugged while walking in a city like Gallup, so I don't worry about it much. The only RVer I've ever heard of who had to confront intruders in his rig (twice) was Tioga George... and he was in Mexico. 'Nuff said.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: On the road security
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141680
Andy, as a old feminist, I am concerned that you are assuming that the intruder is a guy. Women can intrude, too. Please don't underestimate us. tsk tsk.
Patti Golden CO PS I assume John didn't want his name on this :)

__ From: Andy Baird andybaird@...>
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:36 AM
 Subject: [LD] Re: On the road security

As you found out, Canada won't allow personal-defense sprays (Mace or pepper spray) or guns into the country. They will allow "bear spray" if it is so labeled. Bear spray canisters are generally much larger than pepper spray, so they're clumsier to store and to carry on your person. Yes, I do carry bear spray when hiking--for use against bears or out-of-control dogs.
 With respect to your lament that "I... am defenseless against any intruders," you were probably already effectively defenseless with your Mace canister. Think about what would happen if you used Mace or pepper spray inside your rig. Chemical warfare doesn't work well indoors! ;-) After releasing a cloud of that stuff in a tiny, confined area, in all likelihood you'd end up as incapacitated as the intruder... and you'd have a helluva cleanup job afterward. These sprays are useful outdoors, but in my humble opinion, not inside an RV.
 So what *can* you use against an intruder inside your rig? Well, some carry a gun, but that's a complicated issue. I'm not talking about politics here, I mean that if you own a gun, you need to train with it and regularly practice using it, or it's likely to be taken away from you by that intruder, and used against you. You also have to be cognizant of a maze of state and local gun laws. And of course you can't take it into Canada with you. Gun ownership is a lot more complicated than buying a can of spray (although it's good to get some training with that as well).
 And finally, if you ever had to fire a gun inside your rig, think of all the things you'd be likely to hit--propane-powered appliances (fridge, stove, furnace, water heater) tanks, plumbing, wiring... it's like the Russian sub captain said in "The Hunt For Red October": "Most things in here don't react well to being shot at."
 My suggestion for indoor use--and it's only a suggestion, because thank goodness I've never had to try it out--is a foam fire extinguisher. I keep one in a holder within reach of my bed (as well as in four or five other locations). If I had to confront an intruder, spraying foam in his face would at least temporarily disorient him. Better than nothing... and unlike pepper spray, ammonia or wasp spray, it wouldn't damage the rig, or blind anyone permanently.
 Realistically, the chances of being attacked inside your rig are probably much less than those of being mugged while walking in a city like Gallup, so I don't worry about it much. The only RVer I've ever heard of who had to confront intruders in his rig (twice) was Tioga George... and he was in Mexico. 'Nuff said.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: On the road security
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141681
Boy (girl) am I in trouble. I didn't delete your email when I responded. Guess there are some times this girl isn't so good at.
Patti Golden, CO I know John doesn't want to be part of this.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: On the road security
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141682
"You also have to be cognizant of a maze of state and local gun laws."
 Anyone who carries firearms in their RV, should consider getting "Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the 50 States."  It's updated each year ...
http://rvbookstore.com/shop/detail.aspx?m=2&p=367 .

"And of course you can't take it into Canada with you."
 It depends on what *kind* of firearms you are talking about.  *Some* firearms CAN be taken into Canada with the proper permits.  Canada has three classifications of firearms:  Prohibited, restricted, and allowed.  To find out which firearms are allow into Canada and to download the proper forms, go to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police's Canadian Firearms Program website.
The relevant URL for visitors and non-residents is: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/visit/index-eng.htm

Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Linda Hylton
Re: On the road security
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141684
"as a old feminist, I am concerned that you are assuming that the intruder is a guy. Women can intrude, too. Please don't underestimate us."
 Berni, as an old feminist myself, I don't underestimate women--believe me. But the probability is pretty high that an intruder is going to be male. See June Stephenson's book "Men Are Not Cost-Effective: Male Crime in America"...
 http://www.amazon.com/Men-Are-Not-Cost-Effective-America/dp/0941138119/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375381452&sr=1-1&keywords=%22men+are+not+cost+effective%22

...which sets forth the dismal statistics.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: On the road security
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141714
Unfortunately security concerns are not equal between men and women.  It's not at all fair but women do need to take extra security measures.  Think of what happened in Ohio where I live with the kidnaping of three young women for 10 years.  Think of how we prepare our sons and daughters differently on this topic.
 Normally I do not like junk E-mails but this one on security that also mentions the Wasp spray idea seemed to have some good tips and advise.  I especially like the idea: If you hear a noise outside your home or someone trying to get in your house, just press the panic button for your car.

13 THINGS YOUR BURGLAR WON'T TELL YOU

1. Of course I look familiar. I was here just last week cleaning your carpets, painting your shutters, or delivering your new refrigerator.

2. Hey, thanks for letting me use the bathroom when I was working in your yard last week. While I was in there, I unlatched the back window to make my return a little easier.

3. Love those flowers. That tells me you have taste... and taste means there are nice things inside. Those yard toys your kids leave out always make me wonder what type of gaming system they have.

4. Yes, I really do look for newspapers piled up on the driveway. And I might leave a pizza flyer in your front door to see how long it takes you to remove it..

5. If it snows while you're out of town, get a neighbor to create car and foot tracks into the house.. Virgin drifts in the driveway are a dead giveaway.

6. If decorative glass is part of your front entrance, don't let your alarm company install the control pad where I can see if it's set. That makes it too easy.

7. A good security company alarms the window over the sink. And the windows on the second floor, which often access the master bedroom - and your jewelry. It's not a bad idea to put motion detectors up there too.

8. It's raining, you're fumbling with your umbrella, and you forget to lock your door - understandable. But understand this: I don't take a day off because of bad weather.

9. I always knock first. If you answer, I'll ask for directions somewhere or offer to clean your gutters. (Don't take me up on it.)    10. Do you really think I won't look in your sock drawer? I always check dresser drawers, the bedside table, and the medicine cabinet.

11. Here's a helpful hint: I almost never go into kids' rooms.
   12. You're right: I won't have enough time to break into that safe where you keep your valuables. But if it's not bolted down, I'll take it with me.
   13. A loud TV or radio can be a better deterrent than the best alarm system. If you're reluctant to leave your TV on while you're out of town, you can buy a $35 device that works on a timer and simulates the flickering glow of a real television. (Find it athttp://www.faketv/.com/)

8 MORE THINGS A BURGLAR WON'T TELL YOU:

1. Sometimes, I carry a clipboard. Sometimes, I dress like a lawn guy and carry a rake. I do my best to never, ever look like a crook.

2. The two things I hate most: loud dogs and nosy neighbors.

3. I'll break a window to get in, even if it makes a little noise. If your neighbor hears one loud sound, he'll stop what he's doing and wait to hear it again. If he doesn't hear it again, he'll just go back to what he was doing. It's human nature.

4. I'm not complaining, but why would you pay all that money for a fancy alarm system and leave your house without setting it?  
5. I love looking in your windows. I'm looking for signs that you're home, and for flat screen TVs or gaming systems I'd like. I'll drive or walk through your neighborhood at night, before you close the blinds, just to pick my targets.

6. Avoid announcing your vacation on your Facebook page. It's easier than you think to look up your address.

7. To you, leaving that window open just a crack during the day is a way to let in a little fresh air. To me, it's an invitation.

8. If you don't answer when I knock, I try the door. Occasionally, I hit the jackpot and walk right in.
 Sources: Convicted burglars in North Carolina , Oregon , California , and Kentucky ; security consultant Chris McGoey, who runs http://www.crimedoctor.com/ and Richard T. Wright, a criminology professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis, who interviewed 105 burglars for his book Burglars on the Job.

Protection for you and your home: If you don't have a gun, here's a more humane way to wreck someone's evil plans for you.

WASP SPRAY

A friend who is a receptionist in a church in a high risk area was concerned about someone coming into the office on Monday to rob them when they were counting the collection. She asked the local police department about using pepper spray and they recommended to her that she get a can of wasp spray instead.
 The wasp spray, they told her, can shoot up to twenty feet away and is a lot more accurate, while with the pepper spray, they have to get too close to you and could overpower you. The wasp spray temporarily blinds an attacker until they get to the hospital for an antidote. She keeps a can on her desk in the office and it doesn't attract attention from people like a can of pepper spray would. She also keeps one nearby at home for home protection.. Thought this was interesting and might be of use.

FROM ANOTHER SOURCE: On the heels of a break-in and beating that left an elderly woman in Toledo dead, self-defense experts have a tip that could save your life.
 Val Glinka teaches self-defense to students at Sylvania Southview High School . For decades, he's suggested putting a can of wasp and hornet spray near your door or bed.
Glinka says, "This is better than anything I can teach them." Glinka considers it inexpensive, easy to find, and more effective than mace or pepper spray. The cans typically shoot 20 to 30 feet; so if someone tries to break into your home, Glinka says, "spray the culprit in the eyes". It's a tip he's given to students for decades. It's also one he wants everyone to hear. If you're looking for protection, Glinka says look to the spray.
 "That's going to give you a chance to call the police; maybe get out." Maybe even save a life.

Put your car keys beside your bed at night.
Tell your spouse, your children, your neighbors, your parents, your Dr.'s office, the check-out girl at the market, everyone you run across. Put your car keys beside your bed at night.
 If you hear a noise outside your home or someone trying to get in your house, just press the panic button for your car. The alarm will be set off, and the horn will continue to sound until either you turn it off or the car battery dies. This tip came from a neighborhood watch coordinator. Next time you come home for the night and you start to put your keys away, think of this: It's a security alarm system that you probably already have and requires no installation. Test it. It will go off from most everywhere inside your house and will keep honking until your battery runs down or until you reset it with the button on the key fob chain. It works if you park in your driveway or garage. If your car alarm goes off when someone is trying to break into your house, odds are the burglar/rapist won't stick around. After a few seconds all the neighbors will be looking out their windows to see who is out there and sure enough the criminal won't want that. And remember to carry your keys while walking to your car in a parking lot. The alarm can work the same way there. This is something that should really be shared with everyone. Maybe it could save a life or a sexual abuse crime.
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: On the road security
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141715
"This is something that should really be shared with everyone. Maybe it could save a life or a sexual abuse crime."
 Absolutely marvelous articles - thanks very much. We'll be sure to use many of the suggestions.

Barry "O" - 06MB - Ruby Red
2006 27' MidBath
Re: On the road security
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141725
Some old ideas
 Place an used large pair of mens works boots outside your rig, along with a large dog bowl.
Install an battery-powered, wireless intercom, so you have no need to open the door.
Install a bright outside door light, aimed to shine in the eyes the "visitor".
Park where you can exit forward or backwards quickly, if necessary
 If there are any inventors out there for for something to do, design a device the replicate the shuffling noise that a 12-gauge pump-action shotgun makes, it is sure to make most people stop in their tracks.
If you insist on having a gun, a real cutdown shotgun is a much more effective weapon for short range protection and will not kill someone a quarter mile away.

Think safe.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: On the road security
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141775
I carry a Boat Horn.  It is loud and would scare off any intruder.  Including me.  LOL

Patricia  The Grandmother of her tribe in her Glory Daze.
Re: On the road security
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141784
A boat horn would do nothing to stop a deaf person and little against a hearing impaired person. It's also doubtful it would stop a determined assailant. You are correct it can effect you as well. When I lived on a boat I leaned on my boat horn and it went off in my ear. Not fun.

*Michelle Ress http://www.ipernity.com/home/289359

I carry a Boat Horn. It is loud and would scare off any intruder. Including me. LOL

Patricia The Grandmother of her tribe in her Glory Daze.

*

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On the road security
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141789
From: "Garry Foster" garry.foster1@...>

Quote
Nobody "Should be Robbing Motor Homes" however that doesn't stop some low life's from doing it...
Of course not. I was not being serious. Anyway it is not something I think about or worry about.
Tom
Re: On the road security
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141845
wrote:

Quote
Should have bought "bear spray" and answered no to Mace

Bill Bussiere Fox Head, Inc.
Growing up in Northwest Montana (think Glacier National Park as my backyard), Bear spray was somewhat common to keep in your home or car against intruders. I've read several articles about the effectiveness of wasp/bee killer against a human aggressor, though, I haven't found a friend willing to let me try it on them yet :)
 On a side note, I switched insurance providers recently, and the agent for the new provider asked if my motorhome was equipped with an anti-theft device. I replied, "I keep a Louisville Slugger by the door, so yes."

She didn't find it nearly as humorous as I did.

Tyler F.
2001 26RB
Re: On the road security
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141846
wrote: I've read several articles about the effectiveness of wasp/bee killer against a human aggressor, though, I haven't found a friend willing to let me try it on them yet :)

Quote
----
We live in a (very) litigious society, so one might want to consider the potentially unpleasant legal consequences of the use of wasp spray on a human before making a choice of "defenders". This Snopes article on the topic is a worthwhile read:
 http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
: On the road security
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 141785
Quote
A boat horn would do nothing to stop a deaf person and little against a hearing impaired person. It's also doubtful it would stop a determined assailant. You are correct it can effect you as well. When I lived on a boat I leaned on my boat horn and it went off in my ear. Not fun.

*Michelle Ress
Deaf people should not be robbing motorhomes.
Tom