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Power fluctuations at campground
Yahoo Message Number: 135704
An interesting event occurred while staying at James Island County Park Campground, Charleston, SC. We were there for a few days to enjoy the spectacular "Holiday of Lights" show at the park. We have seen them ether setting up (or taking down) the light displays on previous visits at the park. This time we totally enjoyed all the events surrounding the light display and Charleston at Christmas.
The first morning there we had turned on the Dometic heat pump as it was quite cool. A few minutes after the compressor had come on, the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge suppressor (hard wired in the coach) tripped shutting off all AC power. The EMS showed a low voltage code on the LED display after I reset it. It trips when the incoming voltage goes below 104VAC. I thought this was interesting as it was showing 110VAC coming from the campground power pedestal. Without the Dometic running the coach was drawing only 2-amps AC (probably the converter).  I then turned the Dometic back on and when the compressor started amperage rose to 17 (which is normal)  @ 110VAC.  Then shortly thereafter the voltage began to slowly drop with amperage staying the same. I shut the Dometic off at 106 VAC and the camp voltage went back up to 110VAC. I thought this was somewhat strange so I took my multi-meter to the camp pedestal measuring voltage there as the compressor came back on. Same falling voltage results there. I then reported the incident to the camp office. They quickly responded with a technician. He found that the 30-amp breaker was old & weathered and the socked was corroded  so he replaced both.  The voltage was a bit higher at that time (115VAC) so I turned the Dometic back on and again watched the line voltage fall about 3-VAC. At this point all was within proper range and there were no other problems.
I assume (I know the old saying about this word) that this is normal as I did the same testing inside my shop (very adequate 121-VAC power supply w/8-ga wire to the 30-amp RV socket) and watched the same 3-voltage drop when the compressor was running.  I submit this for other owners to be aware of campground voltages and how their varying can occur and the problems that result. The PI Electrical Management System saved me lots of $$$$$ in repair or replacement. It's LED status display on the kitchen cabinet face makes it easy to monitor at a glance. I had wired it into the output of the transfer switch so it would monitor all AC power (shore or generator) at all times. That is the only way it should be done.
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135705
Excellent post, Mike! Thanks for reminding us about that situation. It's common for no-load campground voltage to look good, but then to sag when a heavy power drain such as the air or microwave oven is turned on, but one rarely thinks to point the finger at a corroded campground power socket.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135706
Quote
On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:56 AM, Andy Baird wrote:
 Excellent post, Mike! Thanks for reminding us about that situation. It's common for no-load campground voltage to look good, but then to sag when a heavy power drain such as the air or microwave oven is turned on, but one rarely thinks to point the finger at a corroded campground power socket.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'
Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135707
Sorry for that last accidentally sent partial message.
Anyway, The campground pedestal 30-amp breaker was unusually quite warm also. They do weaken and corrode over time, or the incoming wire to the breaker may loosen. This can happen to the breakers in the RV and your home. A warm breaker is a good indicator during investigation.
Mike
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135708
We are staying at Lake Casitas near Ojai and had a similar thing happen.  The electrical is old here and we were told they would be upgrading later this winter.  After having been here a couple weeks our electricity started shutting off.  The box was warm and showed signs of previous issues on the 30 amp side.  I have a 50 amp adapter and used this to connect to the 50 amp circuit.  Problem solved, no more shutting off or warm electrical box.  An easy fix for us.
Skip
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135709
Thank you for bringing this subject up. I have a Surgeguard model 34520 installed in my LD. Does anyone know how this compares with the Progressive Industries unit? I am concerned about the low voltage protection capabilities of the Surgeguard. Observed voltages as low as 107 with my multimeter and the Surgeguard didn't trip. Have heard that low voltage is a common killer of the Dometic A.C. unit.

Thanks, Bob
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135719
"I have a Surgeguard model 34520 installed in my LD. Does anyone know how this compares with the Progressive Industries unit?"
 I've owned both. The SurgeGuard was blown out by a direct lightning strike a couple of years ago, and after seeing how it was constructed internally, I replaced it with a Progressive Industries unit.
 Both devices do the same jobs, as far as power conditioning and protection are concerned: they suppress surges; shut down power to protect against over- and under-voltages, and prevent power from a miswired electrical outlet from getting through and harming your rig or your person.
 Additionally, the PI unit lets you connect a remote readout box that displays incoming voltage, current, line frequency, and any wiring errors. It's good information, and a useful double-check when connecting to campground power.
 What I didn't like about the SurgeGuard's innards was the cheap, dangling MOVs used for surge protection (see http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2010/zapped-4.htm) and the fact that the box was unrepairable. The PI unit also uses MOVs, but at least they're properly mounted. And the components are replaceable in a modular fashion, so repairs are possible.
 "I am concerned about the low voltage protection capabilities of the Surgeguard. Observed voltages as low as 107 with my multimeter and the Surgeguard didn't trip."
 You're right to be concerned about low voltages damaging your air conditioner. I was unable to find a minimum-voltage spec from Dometic, but most authorities recommend not operating the air conditioner below 105 V.
 SurgeGuard states: "Over voltage and under voltage protection removes primary power from the load... when the voltage drops below 102V or above 132V." So you haven't hit those limits yet. The Progressive Industries unit is specified to cut power at 104 V, so it gives you a bit more protection.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135734
Several of us are happy with the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135738
" I've owned both. The SurgeGuard was blown out by a direct lightning strike a couple of years ago, and after seeing how it was constructed internally, I replaced it with a Progressive Industries unit."

Lightning Strike? Were you in the LD when this happened? Wow.
Well it looks like the PI unit is better based on your experience. The question is should I spend the bucks to replace the Surgeguard?
 The higher degree of protection you mentioned seems like it would be worth the cost. Especially since our RV appliances are so costly.

Thank you for passing on the knowledge.
Bob
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135751
I was discussing purchasing a portable version a few months ago with a friend. He suggested I purchase a 50 amp model so I can take it with me if I ever move to a Class A.
 Is this possible? will a 50 model amp work with our 30 amp Lazy Daze?

Thanks Ed
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135753
"I was discussing purchasing a portable version a few months ago with a friend. He suggested I purchase a 50 amp model so I can take it with me if I ever move to a Class A."
 Not a good idea. To begin with, portable EMS boxes are more prone to failure than hardwired ones (because they're left out in the rain), and MUCh more prone to being stolen! Yes, you can get locking hardware that's supposed top prevent that, but once you add that extra cost, you might as well have a hardwired model installed.
 Aside from that, the 50A version of the Progressive Industries box costs $431, compared to $299 for the 30A version... and that's not counting about fifty bucks worth of adapters you'd have to add.
 And I'm not sure that a 50A EMS box would provide proper protection for a 30A rig in any case.
 As I said, this is NOT a good idea. Get a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C--the unit that is appropriate for your current rig--and wire it in. Worry about protecting a 50A class A coach if and when you ever buy one.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135759
Quote from: Andy Baird"

"Lightning Strike? Were you in the LD when this happened?"

Yup. You can read the whole story here:
 http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2010/zapped.htm

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ If I had your luck I would be gambling in Vegas!  What are the odds of surviving such a thing.? I hope you celebrated with some ice cream or something,"

Bob
 
Power fluctuations at campground
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135764
I totally agree with Andy for the stated reasons. Additionally, it is invaluable to be able to continually monitor the voltage and amperage levels while inside your coach with the unit's remote LED display. It the unit trips the error code is also displayed which gives you direction into solving the problem.

Mike
Quote
As I said, this is NOT a good idea. Get a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C--the unit that is appropriate for your current rig--and wire it in. Worry about protecting a 50A class A coach if and when you ever buy one.

Andy Baird

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'