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Topic: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions (Read 9 times) previous topic - next topic
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Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Yahoo Message Number: 111557
One more question, please.
 Today, we dropped Panoply off at the RV/Solar tech that AM solar recommended in Florida.
 I thought I read something somewhere there were reasons not to run the refrigerator and ac through the inverter (2000 watt). He responded if that is what I wanted he could bypass them.
 But, bypassing the refrigerator would be a mistake, right? I read tonight that some of you run the refrigerator on the inverter when traveling, which I would love to do. There is no reason not to put it on the inverter is there?
 But the ac? Should it bypass the inverter? Or it is moot as you really need shore power or the generator for short spurts.
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111561
Quote
But, bypassing the refrigerator would be a mistake, right? I read tonight that some of you run the refrigerator on the inverter when traveling, which I would love to do. There is no reason not to put it on the inverter is there?

 Our installer (also an AM Solar recommended installer) told us not to run the refer on the inverter while running down the road.  Of course, ours is an inverter/charger, maybe that's the difference.
 If you DON'T have the refer bypassed, BE SURE to turn it to propane when you're sitting in one place and working off the inverter.  The refer running in electric mode off an inverter will quickly draw down your batteries!

Quote
But the ac? Should it bypass the inverter? Or it is moot as you really need shore power or the generator for short spurts.

 Since you will not be able to run the A/C from the inverter, anyway, you might as well have it bypassed.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Linda Hylton
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111563
Quote
But the ac? Should it bypass the inverter? Or it is moot as you really need shore power or the generator for short spurts.
The air conditioner will draw almost 2000W in normal running, more for the compressor to start. It is doubtful a 2000W inverter could do the job. But assuming an inverter could be wired in to handle it, and if 2000W were the typical load, that would represent a draw at 12V of over 180 Amps. I doubt your alternator could supply that, and a 200 A-hr battery bank would be deeply discharged after 1/2 hr, dry-camped. The fridge, however, draws perhaps 250W - 22 Amps is a lot for the batteries, but an easy task for your alternator. You want it wired so it will switch to gas when you dry-camp. Some folks use a separate small inverter just for the fridge, wired to just be on when the engine is running.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111568
Marcia,
 As Steve and others posted, I think it's a good idea to install a separate breaker buss so the air conditioner cannot be connected to the inverter. On the other hand, it's convenient to be able to run the fridge from the inverter. I do this when on the road and also leave it running on the inverter during short stops - - up to say an hour or two if the sun is out. The fridge takes 30 amp from the battery bank when it running on inverter. Yonder's solar array delivers 25 amps so there is a net battery drain of 5 amps. Not bad when we'll be heading down the highway again in an hour or two. When we stop to camp (we almost always dry camp or boondock, then we switch it to propane of course.
 Can't help with the surge protector question, Yonder doesn't have one since we almost never hook up to campground power. However, your installers claims don't make much sense to me either.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111572
Marcia asked," thought I read something somewhere there were reasons not to run the refrigerator and ac through the inverter (2000 watt).
He responded if that is what I wanted he could bypass them."

I am not an expert, BUT, I understand that if the AC and Refrig are run through the inverter, if you are boondocking and forget about the wiring configuration, your refrig will automatically select electric unless you override.  The result will be a LOT of drain on your batteries.  If you are plugged into shore power, or if you are driving, it should be no big deal but one "oops" when you set up without shore power could be a problem.

I am set up to do both.  The two plug outlet by my refrig is set up with one plug for shore power and one for inverter.  Part of my driving checklist is checking the refrig plug placement.  If I am plugged into shore power I could leave the refrig set to inverter but I don't.  I move the plug to the shore power setting.  That way, if there is a power failure while I am asleep or away from the rig, I don't have to worry about the refrig draining the house batteries.  I set the plug to inverter only when driving, allowing the refrig to be run by the inverter, thus the alternator as I travel.
 I just re-read the above and it doesn't sound very clear.  Try this.
The two-plug outlet by my refrigerator has one option marked "shore" and another marked "inverter".  I use "inverter" when driving and I use "shore" at all other times.  Otherwise, a power failure at the campground could drain my batteries as the refrigerator tries to use electrical power via the inverter.

Ken F. in OR

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'08 MB
Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111574
One very important issue every installer should know - but check to make certain they DO!
 The inverter output must NOT be wired to run the converter. If so, the batteries will be trying to charge themselves and run the 12V panel from the 120VAC converter, and very inefficiently, too. So, above all, do not allow the roof air or converter to end up on the inverter output!

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111575
I've read all your responses, thank you. We will either go with a separate inverter connection for the refrigerator or the plug idea to have inverter feeding just one side of the plug, leaving that up to my husband.
 We are creating checklists, so refrigerator changeover when we stop for anything over an hour will be added to it!
 I will mention not wiring the inverter output to run the converter, just in case, though I think he really does know what he is doing, but is set in his ways on a couple of things, like most of us are at times. And some questions I don't think to ask until I start reading past items on the forum. You all clarify for me, thank you.
 He is using the really heavy gauge wiring, he told us that before I could 'remind' him.
 When we do get a surge protector to have someone hard wire in, I have noted the use of a switch to bypass it.

Thanks!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111576
Marcia, A few things I didn't see mentioned is that not all 2kW inverters will have enough surge capacity to start an A/C unit motor. The second point is that any 120VAC system that is being powered by an inverter at 12V will draw 11-12 times as much current from the batteries. Therefore a roof AC unit could draw 110A from the batteries, while the engine alternator tries to keep up as you drive.
Using intermittent or small AC loads while driving is usually Ok.

Ian
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111577
Sorry I'm late getting to this discussion, but I agree with the others:

1. There's no reason not to run the fridge from an inverter while driving. I do it routinely, as do many RVers I know. It's safer, since there's no need to turn off the fridge when gassing up. You just have to remember to switch it back to propane when you stop (assuming you don't have shore power).

2. Hardwired surge protection is definitely the way to go. Plug-in protectors can be stolen (with or without extra-cost "protection" devices); they fail more often, because they're exposed to rain and dampness; and they're one more thing to deal with. Look at it this way: that portable unit is going to take up space in a compartment anyway when you're traveling--so why not just put a hardwired unit in the same space, and not have to think about it ever again?  
3. I have a SurgeGuard, and it works well. I have friends with Progressive Dynamics units, and they work well. As far as I know, the two brands are equally good. But the PD units give you a much more informative display panel (the SurgeGuard panel just has a couple of colored LEDs). I believe the PD units are a better value for the money.

4. Make sure your surge protector is wired so that it protects BOTH the shore power and generator inputs. Generator power is pretty "dirty," and spikes, surges and under/overvoltages are at least as likely from that source as from shore power. You're paying for protection; make sure you protect both power sources.

5. Don't wire the inverter to the air conditioner. It is *possible* to run an LD's roof A/C from a 2,000W inverter, given enough batteries (five in my case)--for a few minutes. But it's not at all practical!

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111579
Oops! in my last post, I said "Progressive Dynamics" when I meant to say "Progressive Industries." Sorry about that!

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111580
After reading the rest of the input on hardwired vs portable surge protector, we will go with hardwired before we use our RV, making sure it has a switch and protects generator as well. Thank you, Andy - and all - for the input.
Re: Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111581
"Andy"  wrote:
2. Hardwired surge protection is definitely the way to go. Plug-in protectors can be stolen (with or without extra-cost "protection" devices); they fail more often, because they're exposed to rain and dampness; and they're one more thing to deal with. Look at it this way: that portable unit is going to take up space in a compartment anyway when you're traveling--so why not just put a hardwired unit in the same space, and not have to think about it ever again?
 --- Another POV on hardwired vs. portable EMS:
 The "extra-cost protection device" that I use with my portable EMS from Progressive Industries is a 3' length of hardened chain and a weather-proof padlock; the whole thing cost about $10.00.
 To prevent exposure to "rain and dampness", I made a waterproof "sleeve" with drawstring/toggle closures out of a small piece of Goretex; any waterproof fabric, e.g., coated ripstop, works, too.  Minimal cost for materials and easy to make, even with rudimentary sewing skills.  (It's a short-term solution, IMO, but even a plastic grocery store bag works to rpotect the EMS from rain; cut a hole just large enough for the bottom cord/plug to go through, pull the bag up around the unit and tie the handles of the bag around the upper cord. I used to do this with my previous EMS before I got smart a few years ago and made the raincoat!)
 In my TK, the only viable compartment location to hardwire the EMS was where my air compressor fits; the portable unit is stowed at the other end of the compartment with the electrical cord and various adapters.
 The hardwired and portable Progressive Industries 30A EMS offer the same functional features and "line" protection; the hardwired unit is less expensive than the portable, but labor costs for installation (if one isn't able to wire the thing in himself/herself) should be considered in the final tab.
 This is my third portable EMS; the frst one (SurgeGuard) gave it up in a lightning storm in CO, I gave the second (also SurgeGuard) to a friend when I bought the Progressive Industries model.  Portables work for me, but, as ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111589
I have a 1,000 watt true sine wave inverter that powers ALL of my ac outlets and I use it to run the fridge while the rig is running down the road.  I can stop for an hour or so in the sunshine and not worry about running the batteries down.  When I get to camp I put the fridge on GAS if I am dry camping or on AUTO if I have hook ups. If I have shore power and the power goes out, the fridge switches to gas until the power comes back the fridge automatically switches to the shore power ac.  Seems simple to me.
 I know I can NOT run the air conditioner on my inverter.  If I want the air conditioner on, then all I do is turn off the inverter (yes, I have a transfer switch on the inverter), turn on the genset, and then turn on the air conditioner.  I really do not see the need for an elaborate interlock fail safe series of devices to prevent me from trying to run the air conditioner off the inverter.  After all we can not run the microwave AND the air conditioner at the same time off of the genset and somehow we accept this as a fact of Lazy Daze life.
 I admit that I have forgotten to switch the fridge from Auto to Gas a couple of times upon arrival, but as far as I can tell it was not a fatal error.  I started the evening with lower than I liked battery levels, but I could run the truck engine for a while to charge them up.  I survived by turning in for the night a little earlier than normal.

Simple works, but YMMV.

Terry Tanner 2001 27RB in Los Angeles
Terry Apple
2013 RB 27 Baby Blue Bentley
Solar - Whole House Inverter Refrigerator/AC questions
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111591
"Terry"  wrote: Simple works, but YMMV.
--- ;-) !!!

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Powering the Refer
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111882
On Apr 4, 2010, at 11:17 PM, Terry wrote:

Quote
I have a 1,000 watt true sine wave inverter that powers ALL of my ac outlets and I use it to run the fridge while the rig is running down the road.
How is this helpful??? Is it hazardous??? Outside of blowing up a gas station, what is the risk???

Quote
When I get to camp I put the fridge on GAS if I am dry camping or on AUTO if I have hook ups. If I have shore power and the power goes out, the fridge switches to gas until the power comes back the fridge automatically switches to the shore power ac. Seems simple to me.
We leave ours on Auto all the time. That seems even simpler to me.
I just can not think a reason to power the refer from an inverter or to fool around with switching from Auto.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Powering the Refer
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111884
"We leave ours on Auto all the time. I just can not think a reason to power the refer from an inverter or to fool around with switching from Auto."
 It all depends on how many batteries and solar panels you have, Don. :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Powering the Refer
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111885
Quote
I have a 1,000 watt true sine wave inverter that powers ALL of my ac outlets and I use it to run the fridge while the rig is running down the road.
How is this helpful??? Is it hazardous??? Outside of blowing up a gas station, what is the risk???
Many places besides gas stations - such as many ferry systems - require you to turn propane off, and in some cases it could be for quite a while. Additionally, while driving, fittings could work loose causing undetected leaks that you would notice when camped, or in an accident gas lines could be severed.
 Overall, the risk of driving with gas on may be a small one, but many would prefer to eliminate it completely. Also, with the batteries charged, power from the alternator for this purpose is essentially 'free', allowing you to conserve propane during extensive travels.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
 
Re: Powering the Refer
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111888
Quote
We leave ours on Auto all the time. That seems even simpler to me.
I just can not think a reason to power the refer from an inverter or to fool around with switching from Auto.
I can...if you have a "whole house" inverter and the refer is on one of the circuits that is powered by the inverter when it's on.  Running a refer via an inverter (when not driving down the road) can quickly deplete your batteries!

Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Linda Hylton