Re: About message deletions Reply #25 – December 14, 2009, 05:35:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 108497Hay guys, can I vote for Andy, too??? That makes it SIX, now, don't it??? Gene in-foggy-Sanford-wait-a-minute,I don't need me shades
Re: About message deletions Reply #26 – December 14, 2009, 08:48:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 108500Gues my original comment praising Andyt didn't get founted either. Keep up the great work, Andy. You maintain a great balance for us (most of us) to be comfortable with. We can get all the controversy out of the newspapers, TV or etc.Capnhook86 (Barry O)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: About message deletions Reply #27 – December 14, 2009, 10:55:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 108502I'd wager ('cept I don't gamble) that the vast majority of Lazy Daze listers are appreciative of the way Andy runs our list. But most of them are kind enough to not clutter up the list by saying "me too!". So let me add a huge *ME TOO!!* for all the silent unwashed masses, and the clean ones too, who agree Andy does a commendable and often thankless job for us . . . and that includes removing the occassional inappropriate post (even if it's from me).Thanks all,bumper Yonder Minden, NV (where there's lots of conservative folks to agree with . . . don't fight with the liberal ones either, just disagree and remain friends)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: About message deletions Reply #28 – December 14, 2009, 11:38:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 108503Quote I'd wager...that the vast majority of Lazy Daze listers...agree Andy does a commendable and often thankless job for us..."bumper Minden, NV (where there's lots of conservative folks to agree with . . . don't fight with the liberal ones either, just disagree and remain friends) Bumper and others... You can count me in that unwashed group, even though I'm often critical I wouldn't have Andy's job for love nor money. So now that I've stirred the pot and garnered your attention, I'll just fade into the background while I try to find out what's causing the LD engine to turn over at 3 to 4K rpm when it should be at idle.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: About message deletions Reply #29 – December 14, 2009, 02:08:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108508Quote Well, Steve S., since you're counting, let me add my voice to those who appreciate Andy's even-handed way of moderating this group. It certainly is the most civilized of those in which I participate. I'll second Sharon's sentiments. Like many others, I'm sure, I long ago agreed but didn't feel it necessary to clutter up our forum - until now.Thank you Andy.Barb and Gypsy
Re: About message deletions Reply #30 – December 14, 2009, 05:16:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108515I, too, appreciate Andy's group-moderating skills. Like many of you, I monitor several RV groups, and even though I drive a different brand of class C, I find more helpful camping/RVing info on here than most other groups, and less of the sniping and off-topic rants.So thank you Andy. And to the many other posters, thanks for all the information I have gleaned about RVs and camping.Dan
Re: About message deletions Reply #31 – December 14, 2009, 09:58:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108533-Quote "Most members...[?]" Funny, I only counted five (5) postings agreeing with you. This hardly constitutes a "majority of the group". > Steve S. I have been following this group for about five years. I so appreciate Andy keeping this group on track, and generously sharing his vast knowledge. So many things have changed in the way we do things and places we visit. Thank you Thank you thank you. Gary and Lenore 23.5 06 silver Lining.
Re: About message deletions Reply #32 – December 14, 2009, 10:40:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108537Quote Barb and Gypsy And I will join Barb and Gypsy and the others by saying "ANDY - YOU ROCK!Roz
Re: About message deletions Reply #33 – December 14, 2009, 10:51:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108538speaking of letting threads die.................................John 85FL
Re: About message deletions Reply #34 – December 14, 2009, 11:34:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108542"speaking of letting threads die..." Good point, John. :-) Fact is, this is an exceptional group, and its high quality of both information and civilized behavior owes a lot more to you all than it does to me. Thanks for all you've taught me over the years (including when to keep my mouth shut... I'm still working on that one. ;-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Solar Panel Questions Reply #35 – December 15, 2009, 06:30:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108563After over 9 years of saying to myself that I will add solar to our LD, I finally bit the bullet and bought 2 AM Solar panels. Up to now, a lot of our motorhome use was to visit family and friends all over the country. This means that we either were traveling every day or two, or we were plugged in at one of their houses. As a result, solar was never a real need. These days however, we plan to use it more for boondocking at nearby National Forests and Parks as well as music festivals. Solar now makes sense for us and I couldn't resist the lower price and free shipping that AM Solar now has going.Trying to understand the best way to install and connect things, my research tells me that my best approach is to run my panels in series instead of parallel. It seems that a good MPPT controller will take any voltage the panels can come up with above that needed to charge the battery (not counting component and cabling loses, about 13+ volts) and convert it to the proper voltage needed to charge the batteries. In the Pacific Northwest where we have more than our share of cloudy days, each panel might never meet that treshold voltage, but 2 in series will have a much better chance, and earlier in the day, all else being equal. One report I read said he got about a 1 amp charge from a full moon with 2 120 watt panels connected in series. There are +'s and -'s to this approach as I see it. One negitive is that it takes a MPPT controller that can handle the open circuit voltage of 2 panels in series. This leaves out the HPV-22B that AM Solar sells (they told me it was limited to 30 Voc) as well as a lot of other controllers. A plus is that the current from the panels is half of what it would be with them in parallel meaning less loss in the cabling between the panels and the controller under good sunny conditions. I did find a controller (BZ Products MPPT250HV made in USA in St. Louis) that fits the need and at a WEB price of $119 caught my attention. It sure isn't as pretty as the HPV-22B, but it won't be too obvious in my installation and it can handle up to 100 Voc and has an LED battery voltage and charge current meter. Includes temperature compensation probe and trickle charge capability for the starting battery too. My question for you solar experts is, has anyone else in the group taken this series approach, and if so, did it live up to your expectations? Are there any negatives about this approach that I'm missing? I'm going to have to wait for awhile to mount the panels as the 3M tape calls for a minimum temperature of 60 F. (Probably means July around here!) Also, Roger at AM Solar told me that they normally use a screw in addition to the 3M tape on the leading edge mounts on Lazy Daze installations. He even included 4 screws for the purpose in my package of mounts. This is the first I heard of this pratice. Can any of you who had them install panels verify this? What about ones installed at the LD factory? I hate to drill holes in the roof, but if that is what AM Solar is recommending, guess I might have to.Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #36 – December 15, 2009, 07:13:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108565Rich, I can see the potential advantage in putting the panels in series if most of your time is spent on the cloudy Pacific Northwest. I wonder, though, whether you've talked with Greg Holder of AM Solar about this. Since they're located in Eugene, they should be pretty well experienced with the local conditions, and Greg really knows his stuff. Before choosing a configuration, I'd want to at least get his take on it. Assuming you go with a series hookup, the MPPT250HV controller should be able to handle your two panels, but if you later decide to add more panels, you'd have to replace it because of its 250 maximum rating. That's something to keep in mind: you'd be locking out future expansion, at least with that particular controller. Interesting about the screw-and-tape mounting. That's the first I'd heard of it. Did Roger say that customers had experienced failures with tape-only mounts, or were they just playing it safe?Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #37 – December 15, 2009, 07:56:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108566QuoteTrying to understand the best way to install and connect things, my research tells me that my best approach is to run my panels in series instead of parallel. It seems that a good MPPT controller will take any voltage the panels can come up with above that needed to charge the battery (not counting component and cabling loses, about 13+ volts) and convert it to the proper voltage needed to charge the batteries. In the Pacific Northwest where we have more than our share of cloudy days, each panel might never meet that treshold voltage, but 2 in series will have a much better chance, and earlier in the day, all else being equal. One report I read said he got about a 1 amp charge from a full moon with 2 120 watt panels connected in series. A solar panel can never deliver more than about 14% of the solar power incident on the panel. One amp at 13V is 13 Watts, which means an incident power of about 100 Watts. It would take a huge amount of real estate of solar panels to collect that much 'moonshine'!Steve
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #38 – December 15, 2009, 09:31:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108568On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, aq433 wrote:QuoteA solar panel can never deliver more than about 14% of the solar power incident on the panel. One amp at 13V is 13 Watts, which means an incident power of about 100 Watts. It would take a huge amount of real estate of solar panels to collect that much 'moonshine'!Quote Steve Steve, I'm sure you're right, he was pushing the truth with his 1 amp story, but it dosn't change the theory that you should get more current out of the controller in low light situations by putting those panels in series. This guy was a sailor so maybe the moon is brighter out there in the middle of the ocean Rich
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #39 – December 15, 2009, 09:45:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108569Yes, Todd at LD told me that AM Solar does this. If you're out of warranty and use plenty of sealant at the screw sites, should be no problem. But, if you did this, it *would* be a "problem" for LD... officially... because it creates a liability issue if you have compromised the integrity of the "sealed" coach.
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #40 – December 15, 2009, 11:37:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108571On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Andy wrote:QuoteRich, I can see the potential advantage in putting the panels in series if most of your time is spent on the cloudy Pacific Northwest. I wonder, though, whether you've talked with Greg Holder of AM Solar about this. Since they're located in Eugene, they should be pretty well experienced with the local conditions, and Greg really knows his stuff. Before choosing a configuration, I'd want to at least get his take on it.I did write AM Solar with this question, but their reply was simply that if I want to use their HPV-22B controller I would have to put them in parallel due to the 30 Voc limit on their controller. Not really much help, but don't blame them for wanting to sell their stuff. Reply was from Dave Reuter tho, not Greg.QuoteInteresting about the screw-and-tape mounting. That's the first I'd heard of it. Did Roger say that customers had experienced failures with tape-only mounts, or were they just playing it safe? Interesting that you haven't heard of it either. He did imply that they were aware of of least one accident occuring with tape only.Rich
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #41 – December 15, 2009, 11:59:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108572Mine are taped, with some adhesive over the mounts - adhesive because someone else used a solvent of some sort on their roof, and the tape was coming loose. AmSolar installed them for me, early '08.My panels are secure - no sign of coming loose. (And I like not having extra holes in the roof...)Cheers,Helen
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #42 – December 16, 2009, 06:15:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 108574Our panels are secured with tape only and covered with goo to keep UV off the tape. The RVGuy did the first two panels and AM Solar did the third one. I watched the install from the balcony so I am sure no screws were used.signed first hand knowledgeCheers, Don
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #43 – December 16, 2009, 09:20:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 108578Quote Steve, I'm sure you're right, he was pushing the truth with his 1 amp story, but it dosn't change the theory that you should get more current out of the controller in low light situations by putting those panels in series. The problem is, the power output of the panels is proportional to the square of the current, and the current is directly proportional to the insolation. The voltage actually rises very quickly with incident light, but if the current is simply not available due to weak illumination, there will be no power to 'convert'. Note that MPPT controllers due not 'boost' power. They simply allow you to use all the power that is available, instead of having a percentage lost as heat dissipated back in the PV cells.Steve
Re: Solar Panel Questions Reply #44 – December 16, 2009, 09:43:44 am Yahoo Message Number: 108579wrote: Note that MPPT controllers due not 'boost' power. They simply allow you to use all the power that is available, instead of having a percentage lost as heat dissipated back in the PV cells. --- This page offers a detailed explanation of how MPPT technology works: http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/uploads/pdf/BSE_What_is_MPPT.pdf Joan
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