Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Well, by that logic, if this measure passes, then the price that younger people...and the non-disabled...pay should go down because they won't be *subsidizing* those of us who have one of these passes.  However, I've not heard that the fees are going to be going down for others, just that the increase -- to concessionaires, remember -- is being done on the backs of seniors and the disabled.
 If this were all about the USFS needing more money (and I'm sure they do), perhaps it wouldn't rankle so much.  But it's not about the USFS...it's about the concessionaires who are trying to get more money for themselves.
Linda Hylton

The really good deal 50% discount for us old folks might be about to end at most FS campgrounds.
Read all about it!!
 http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-28744.htm 
ed

From: cahoffman145
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:11 AM
 Subject: Re: [LD] New Forest Service proposal

Some of us may not have been able to 'live below our means', since our 'means' barely met expenses - like a roof over our head, food on the table, clothing for our children and selves, health insurance and a modest savings for a rainy day. Some of us live where there are always rainy days.

Carol and Linda.

Carol and Linda,

Good point.
 I've been there too. Both as an immigrant child to this country in the slums of East St. Louis (before they were called ghettoes), and later in the early 60's, trying to support my family on what the US Navy paid back then.
 Not saying there's not an absolute poverty level and that some really do need and deserve help, but I suspect it's rare indeed that a Lazy Daze owner is honestly there. You just cut expenses where you have to, make do with less, live within your means and always find a way to save some.
 I've heard two definitions of wealth from friends: Wealthy is someone who has 25% more than you. (g) But the one I like was told me by a friend who probably worth several hundred million (he co-founded one of those really big Silicon Valley companies back when). "Wealth is when your basic needs are met, and your income exceeds your expenses." He has some very expensive toys, but he also runs a charitable foundation and gives a lot back.
 I'll admit unappologetically, I'm financially comfortable. I made some hard, arguably stupid sacrifices to arrive at that - - like not taking a vacation, or even a weekend off, for over 5 years after I first founded my company.
Boy I was dumb!! But I guess that's what I thought I had to do to get far enough away from that East St. Louis slum in my mind.
 The point I'm trying to make is most of us have choices. I've watched some of my company employees put vacations on their credit cards while not paying down there credit card debt. Then later complaining they have not enough money.
 No, I still think that for most Americans there's amazing opportunity here if you're willing to work hard and you take responsibility for your own self.
 BTW, my company is one of those that gives back. We donate food baskets, and the employees use company funds to purchase Christmas presents that we then take to local churches for distribution to needy families. I've been there, and I remember what that's like.

Merry Christmas,

bumper

"I only hope it will be easy to determine which FS campgrounds are run by concessionaires so that they will be easy to boycott.  I'd surely rather give my 50% to the FS.

Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA

Rich
 I typically camp in the Stanislaw Nat. Forest in the central Sierra Nevada Mtns. of California. To my knowledge there are NO campgrounds in that entire forest that are NOT run by concessionaires and it has been so for at least three decades. Many such campgrounds are neat and orderly staffed by concessionaire employees who are conscientious and go by the posted rules. Others of which I am familiar set arbitrary rules (no checks allowed for instance), allow some people to skate on the fee and turn their back on USFS rules (such as # of people per site). I know of one instance where the 'Campground Host', who preferred to not use the 'Host designated site' actually permitted a fellow concessionaire employee (who was not the designated host) to park his huge 5th wheel on the 'Host' site (w/sewer dump) for most of the summer season. I now boycott all campsites which fall under the control of that Concessionaire.

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs

Yup. Politicians on both sides have made promises and commitments that our children are not going to be able to afford to pay for (let alone us). As a country, we are so "in the hole" financially that it'll take many generations to extricate ourselves . . . and that assumes (wrongly) that we start acting responsibly right now.
 *Not saying that those commitments should be abandoned outright. Honoring them should be a high priority. But we absolutely have to stop spending money we don't have, and start paying back what we owe as a nation. DC has gone totally insane with *our* pocketbooks!

bumper

"My best prediction is that if these fees are increased, there will be less usage..."

 From: cahoffman145
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:11 AM
 Subject: Re: [LD] New Forest Service proposal

Some of us may not have been able to 'live below our means', since our 'means' barely met expenses - like a roof over our head, food on the table, clothing for our children and selves, health insurance and a modest savings for a rainy day. Some of us live where there are always rainy days.

Carol and Linda.

Carol and Linda,

Good point.
 I've been there too. Both as an immigrant child to this country in the slums of East St. Louis (before they were called ghettoes), and later in the early 60's, trying to support my family on what the US Navy paid back then.
 Not saying there's not an absolute poverty level and that some really do need and deserve help, but I suspect it's rare indeed that a Lazy Daze owner is honestly there. You just cut expenses where you have to, make do with less, live within your means and always find a way to save some.
 I've heard two definitions of wealth from friends: Wealthy is someone who has 25% more than you. (g) But the one I like was told me by a friend who probably worth several hundred million (he co-founded one of those really big Silicon Valley companies back when). "Wealth is when your basic needs are met, and your income exceeds your expenses." He has some very expensive toys, but he also runs a charitable foundation and gives a lot back.
 I'll admit unappologetically, I'm financially comfortable. I made some hard, arguably stupid sacrifices to arrive at that - - like not taking a vacation, or even a weekend off, for over 5 years after I first founded my company.
Boy I was dumb!! But I guess that's what I thought I had to do to get far enough away from that East St. Louis slum in my mind.
 The point I'm trying to make is most of us have choices. I've watched some of my company employees put vacations on their credit cards while not paying down there credit card debt. Then later complaining they have not enough money.
 No, I still think that for most Americans there's amazing opportunity here if you're willing to work hard and you take responsibility for your own self.
 BTW, my company is one of those that gives back. We donate food baskets, and the employees use company funds to purchase Christmas presents that we then take to local churches for distribution to needy families. I've been there, and I remember what that's like.

Merry Christmas,

bumper