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Topic: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free (Read 11 times) previous topic - next topic
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Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Yahoo Message Number: 102870
For those who think the $145K price tag on LD's new Kodiak-based coach is too high, have a look at this Born Free model:

http://www.fmca.com/index.php/magazine/features/2536-born-frees-32-foot-rear-queen-slide-out>

or http://tinyurl.com/ntre3c>
 Born Free's base price for this coach is $158K, and that's *without* features like...

* generator * 2,000W whole-house inverter * extra house batteries * Bose sound system * dome satellite-TV antenna * dual TVs (26" up front plus 19" in the bedroom, compared to a single 19" set in the BF) * air conditioner * CB radio with weather channels
 ...all of which are standard on the $145K LD coach, but extra-cost options on the BF Kodiak coach. (To be fair, the BF rig has standard levelers, while LD doesn't.)
 As tested by the FMCA reviewer with just a *few* of the above options (but still without the 2KW inverter, dome TV antenna, Bose sound system, etc.), the BF coach was $178K. That means after you add in what's necessary to make it equal to the LD Kodiak rig, and add levelers to the LD, the BF rig is going to cost about forty thousand dollars more than a stock Lazy Daze Kodiak.

Still think Lazy Daze's price is too high? ;-)
 Oh, yeah... the BF coach is their first with a slideout. Maybe that's worth forty grand to some people. ;-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102871
An additional pricey item that's included with the Kodiak LD but optional on the Born Free is the backup camera.
 Adding on the BF's nonstandard items such as generator and air conditioners affects not only the BF's price, but also the weight; without these, the base vehicle seems to have a much greater carrying capacity than it will as delivered with these inevitable "options."
 On the other hand, the BF comes with standard items that the LD does not, including levelers and, um . . .  a soap dispenser.
 The "Class C" section of the discussion boards at rv.net has a thread that was recently begun by a member who is considering Born Free vs. Lazy Daze, though at the level of the more standard models.

Joanne in Boston NE-44
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102879
"On the other hand, the BF comes with standard items that the LD does not, including levelers"

Checking BF's site, levelers do not show up as either a standard or a Factory option. It is probably an aftermarket add-on.
 Not too sure who would order one without a generator. Too bad it's a propane model and it shares the small 22-gallon propane tank with the refrigerator, eater heater and furnace.
Propane has 15-20% less BTUs per gallon than gasoline, so a propane generator burns fuel at a faster rate than a gasoline unit.
 Agree or not, there are many who want slides and BF is responding to that demand. BF offers the 32" Kodiak with and without a slide.
LD may want to take note.
BTW, BF had the same "no slide" policy as LD up until now.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102885
Quote
...
Checking BF's site, levelers do not show up as either a standard or a Factory option. It is probably an aftermarket add-on.
By George, you're right, levelers are  not standard and not even mentioned on the BF web site.  But apparently they're available from BF for this model.  Also, the options include either gas or propane generator.
 From the article, here's a nice list of options that I had overlooked, most  of which are standard on the LD Kodiak  (returns added, for legibility): "The base (standard equipped) manufacturer's suggested retail price of the Born Free 32' Rear Queen Slide-Out is listed at $158,450. As tested, with the

HWH hydraulic leveling system,
6.5-kilowatt gasoline generator,
 dual roof air conditioners with heat strip, A&E Weather Pro power patio awning, bedroom TV, electric powered TV antenna, color backup camera, central vacuum, and front entertainment center (LCD TV/DVD),

the suggested retail price of my test unit came to $178,475."

Joanne
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102886
Quote
"...Oh, yeah... the BF coach is their first with a slideout. Maybe that's worth forty grand to some people. ;-)"

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Were I to buy a coach with only one slide out, I'd want it in the lounge/living area, not where I sleep.  Additionally, there is no counter space in the kitchen.  Following is the letter to the editor I sent after reading Lazelle Jones's review:
 "Lazelle Jones, the author of the Born Free review (June issue), obviously has never tried to cook a meal in an RV kitchen with no counter space.  If the published floor plan is correct, this model has little if any counter space for food preparation.  And trying to prepare a meal with the sink covers on usually is fruitless because one usually needs the sink.  To say "The galley's food preparation capabilities will accommodate a broad spectrum of culinary pursuits." is pure hyperbole.  It would be more helpful to your readers if those who review the featured motorhomes would be more forthright and not shy about criticizing a coach's faults."
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102887
Andy says:  "Oh, yeah... the BF coach is their first with a slideout. Maybe that's worth forty grand to some people. ;-)"

My questions is 'why did they put the slide in the bedroom rather than in the living area'?  While our bedroom area is a little tight, the 12' slide in the living area is something that we can benefit from during our waking hours.  Having an extra 20" or so between the dinette & sofa which are in the slide and the 7' long kitchen counter sure makes more sense to me than being able to 'dance' at the foot of your bed.  Maybe next year they are planning to add a living area slide so that this year's customers will have a reason to upgrade!

Glen w/SOB w/slide

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102889
It would be more helpful to your readers if those who review the featured motorhomes would be more forthright and not shy about criticizing a coach's faults."


Chris, while I agree with you 100%, it ain't never gonna happen!
 Motorhome Magazine, along with her sister publication, Trailer Life, isn't going to do anything to piss off an advertiser, so the "truth" will never be told in these types of "reviews."  It's just like the various campground directories...the larger the ad, the better the review, even tho' they'll swear up and down that it's not the case (but why would you, as a campground owner, pay for a full page ad if you get a lousy rating?).
 By the way, how is Motorhome Magazine doing nowadays?  Trailer Life is a former shadow of itself and I keep wondering when it will actually quit publication.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Linda Hylton
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102892
Quote
It would be more helpful to your readers if those who review the featured motorhomes would be more forthright and not shy about criticizing a coach's faults."


"Chris, while I agree with you 100%, it ain't never gonna happen!
 Motorhome Magazine, along with her sister publication, Trailer Life, isn't going to do anything to piss off an advertiser, so the "truth" will never be told in these types of "reviews."  It's just like the various campground directories...the larger the ad, the better the review, even tho' they'll swear up and down that it's not the case (but why would you, as a campground owner, pay for a full page ad if you get a lousy rating?).
 By the way, how is Motorhome Magazine doing nowadays?  Trailer Life is a former shadow of itself and I keep wondering when it will actually quit publication."

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
The July issue of Motorhome mag arrived today, chocked full of news, reviews, ads, etc. in 66 pages - very thin.
 Yes, the RV mags never write bad reviews; they don't want to bite the hands that feed them.  However, I do enjoy reading the reviews and it's pretty easy to draw one's own conclusions when the reviewer trys to obfuscate shoddy workpersonship with hyperbole.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102898
"Chris Horst"  wrote: "It would be more helpful to your readers if those who review the featured motorhomes would be more forthright and not shy about criticizing a coach's faults." --- Now, Chris, you know that MH/TL magazine is not going to shoot their advertising bucks in the foot by publishing a candid and wart-revealing review of any product! ;-)

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102901
Quote
"Chris Horst"  wrote: "It would be more helpful to your readers if those who review the featured motorhomes would be more forthright and not shy about criticizing a coach's faults." --- "Now, Chris, you know that MH/TL magazine is not going to shoot their advertising bucks in the foot by publishing a candid and wart-revealing review of any product! ;-)"

Joan
I'll bet a new Kodiak that they don't publish my letter!

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102903
"Agree or not, there are many who want slides and BF is responding to that demand. BF offers the 32" Kodiak with and without a slide. LD may want to take note."
 That's true, and Joan Taylor made the same point in a private email this morning. Obviously a lot of people DO want slides; otherwise the industry wouldn't have made them standard on everything bigger than a doghouse.
 (Now there's an idea for a product that would sell to well-heeled RVers: a portable, collapsible doghouse with DUAL SLIDEOUTS! I'll be lots of people would buy them just so they could brag to their friends: "Yeah, even my doghouse has slideouts." ;-)
 The question that remains to be answered is whether LD will attract enough buyers for its current Kodiak rig. Traditionally, LD buyers have been people who did their homework--and if they do, they'll quickly see the value in that rig. Yes, there have always been people who didn't buy an LD because they just HAD to have slides. But there have always been enough who didn't feel that way to keep the company going.
 One thing's worth noting: *if* Steve Newton decided to offer a rig with slides, he now has a chassis that will make it practical, thanks to the Kodiak's greatly increased CCC. How hard would it be for LD to add a slideout to the current Kodiak model? I'm guessing the answer is "not very."
 So if the Kodiak LD doesn't sell in its present form, Steve could do the same thing that BF's John Dodgen has done: give the public what it wants. At least now it's technically feasible, unlike with the Ford chassis. Every time I see a multi-slide motorhome built on the E450 frame--and I see a lot of 'em--it makes me cringe to think how overloaded it must be.
 By the way, I agree with those who say that a slideout in the living quarters would be much more beneficial than one in the bedroom. Anything that would gain more counter space in the kitchen would be good! :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102910
"I agree with those who say that a slideout in the living quarters would be much more beneficial than one in the bedroom. Anything that would gain more counter space in the kitchen would be good! :-)"

Andy
 Slides usually add floor space, not counter space.  Sliding the BF's coach or kitchen would not add any usefulness. Sliding the bedroom does add more storage but, unfortunately, most of it is inaccessible with the slide retracted. Lack of access, with the slides retracted, seems to be a common problem with many slides.
Rigs with slides appear to be better suited for being parked and not actively toured.

It amazing how poorly the BF's kitchen is laid out.
It is in the same place as the kitchen in LD's 32' and they could have used the same layout.
Comparing photos of 32' Kodiaks from BF's and LD's websites is an eye opener. It is apparent that Steve spent a lot of time fine tuning the layout to optimize the floor plan.
BF's Kodiak look thrown together in comparison IMO.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102917
Quote
On the other hand, the BF comes with standard items that the LD does not, including levelers and, um . . .  a soap dispenser.
Careful there, Joanne.  Eliminating clutter was so important to me that I installed soap dispensers in both the kitchen AND the bathroom when I got my 2008 31' TB :-)

Linda
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102919
"It's hard to believe LD went with flooded house batteries"

paul

I assume you are wondering why they did not install AGM batteries.
AGM are great batteries but they cost twice as much or more.
The major advantages of AGMs, in an RV, is that they can accept higher charge levels and they do not need venting so they can be installed inside the coach. Neither of these advantages applies to the Kodiak.
The four T-105 batteries can absorb the output of the converter, solar panels or alternator without a problem.
The batteries are mounted in a vented, exterior compartment.
 LD used the most practical, cost-effective battery for the application and that's one of the reasons why the Kodiak is reasonably priced. Every upgrade raises costs.
You cold pay a lot more for a Born Free Kodiak and get only two batteries.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102923
" I agree with those who say that a slideout in the living quarters would be much more beneficial than one in the bedroom. Anything that would gain more counter space in the kitchen would be good!"

Andy
 Slides usually add floor space, not counter space.  Sliding the BF's coach or kitchen would not add any usefulness. Sliding the bedroom does add more storage but, unfortunately, most of it is inaccessible with the slide retracted. Lack of access, with the slides retracted, seems to be a common problem with most slides.
Rigs with slides appear to be better suited for being parked and not actively toured.

It amazing how poorly the BF's kitchen is laid out.
It is in the same place as the kitchen in LD's 32' and they could have used the same layout.
Comparing photos of 32' Kodiaks from BF's and LD's websites is an eye opener. It is apparent that Steve spent a lot of time fine tuning the layout to optimize the floor plan.
BF's Kodiak look thrown together in comparison IMO.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102930
"I agree with those who say that a slideout in the living quarters would be much more beneficial than one in the bedroom. Anything that would gain more counter space in the kitchen would be good! :-)"

Andy
 Slides usually add floor space, not counter space.  Sliding the BF's coach or kitchen would not add any usefulness. Sliding the bedroom does add more storage but, unfortunately, most of it is inaccessible with the slide retracted. Lack of access, with the slides retracted, seems to be a common problem with most slides.
Rigs with slides appear to be better suited for being parked and not actively toured.

It amazing how poorly the BF's kitchen is laid out.
It is in the same place as the kitchen in LD's 32' and they could have used the same layout.
Comparing photos of 32' Kodiaks from BF's and LD's websites is an eye opener. It is apparent that Steve spent a lot of time fine tuning the layout to optimize the floor plan.
BF's Kodiak look thrown together in comparison IMO.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102936
Hi Larry,
 Minor point, but the four 6 Volt Golf cart batteries are Trojan T-145s which have a higher amp-hour rating than the Trojan T-105s.

Copied from the Lazy Daze web site - "32 Foot Kodiak" section is: "When it comes to 12 volt house battery power we didn't fool around. We built
Re: Kodiak LD's competition: Born Free
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102940
"Minor point, but the four 6 Volt Golf cart batteries are Trojan T-145s which have a higher amp-hour rating than the Trojan T-105s."

Terry
 Even better than I thought. I should have gone back and checked that before posting.
It would be a great option for the smaller LDs. It is a DIY option.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104740457/>

I like the idea of a 27' RB on a Kodiak.
I could carry a lot of tools and parts in the large exterior bins and a fleet of kayaks on top :-).

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
 
Kodiak LD
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102937
With all this talk on the new Kodiak has anyone placed an order for one ...........Its only money right....Jody
2009 Kodiak 32 foot Island Bed