Log In | Register
Skip to main content
Topic: NEW 32ft LD with 19,000+GVWR for Full Timers (Read 9 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98957
Quote

"LD seem to be following a proven business plan.  The plan follows
the model of keeping your loyal customer base happy.  This plan has been affectively used for over 100 years by a fellow American company.
Harley-Davidson.  Harley appeals to its loyal customer base and is very conservative in making changes in their motorcycles.  For example, HD was the last street bike motorcycle company to have a factory six-speed transmission.  Some of Harley's models have not changed their looks in 25-50 years (Heritage Softail and Touring Line).

Quote
It seems LD uses a similar business plan, although at a smaller
scale.  LD also appears to cater to their loyal customer base and also seem conservative to make changes.  25% of the customer base is a significant number.  Therefore it would appear that LD is listening to the concerns and needs of their full timers (25% of base) and making changes accordingly.    For a small company in tough times, catering to 25% of your base, seems like a good business decision."

Quote

Rob
Good assessment, Rob.  I recall about the time the 30' came out ('95 or so?), I was visiting the factory and asked Ed Newton why he launched the 30'.  His response was that his customers had been asking for a larger LD with more amenities.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98958
Quote

"I recall about the time the 30' came out ('95 or so?), I was
visiting the factory and asked Ed Newton why he launched the 30'.  His response was that his customers had been asking for a larger LD with more amenities.

Chris

Chris
 Not that just goes to show how fickle Ed really was... When I was in the process of ordering in early '04, Ed, my wife and I were sitting in the 30' display model and he says to us; "You don't need one this big."
 Now for what earthly reason, if he launched the 30' "because customers were asking for a larger LD...", was he then trying to talk me out of buying one??? Go figure!

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs 2004 30'IB and happy with it.
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98959
"I will bet that the Escapees Club has reliable data on fulltimers."

Good suggestion. I spent some time poking around their website, but all I found was that they have more than 32,000 "member families." That doesn't tell us much, since not all of them are fulltimers.
Besides, the Escapees really *are* a skewed sample--the club was set up specifically for fulltimers and caters heavily to that population.
 However, they might have some statistics on what percentage of RVers in general are fulltimers. Anybody know whom to ask at SKP HQ?

As I think about it, though, that isn't really going to answer the question we're discussing. For all I know, the RVIA's 2.4% estimate might be right on the money for *RVers in general*. What I'm curious about is how many *Lazy Dazers* are fulltimers or snowbirds. And unless the factory publishes its statistics (which for competitive reasons is unlikely), our online survey is the best chance we have of finding out. If we could get, say, a thousand responses, I think we'd have data we could be much more confident of.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98960
So yes, the factory does listen to us . . . sometimes. However, I think there is or was a LD factory culture of "we *know* better than our customers what's best for them". The frustrating quest to get them to change over to LED lighting comes to mind.
 As a business model, resistance to change obviously has it's upside. You truly don't want to swing with every change and new, unevaluated product that comes down the pike. The other side of that is that you don't want to be left behind either.
 When a new, better technology occurred in my business (security alarms), I'd switch over as soon as I knew it really was better. If I still had new "old product" on the shelf, I refused to sell it to our new customers as I knew there was something better for them. Competitors with less ethics have come and gone, but after 40 years Morgan Alarm is still going strong . . . well, a lot stronger than me!
 I think LD does have good ethics, and for that they are a standout in their industry.

bumper

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98983
Quote
It shows that 12% of the Lazy Daze owners who responded are fulltimers. If you include snowbirds (loosely defined as those who travel for more than four months in a given year), the number jumps to 25%. In other words, we have five to ten times as many fulltimers and long-term travelers in our ranks as the RVIA says we should. It seems Lazy Daze owners are not typical RVers--no surprise there! ;-)
 I'm sure it's no surprise to Steve Newton, either. It's reasonable to think that after 50 years in the business, he knows his customers better than the RVIA does, and is tailoring his products accordingly.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
With every respect to Andy, his conclusion simply has no statistical validity and is factually incorrect. At present, using Andy's figures, 227 people have responded to the poll, of which 28 have said they are full timers. 28 as a percentage of 227 is 12.33% which is obviously mathematically correct but to then extrapolate that to a statement that says 12% of all LD pwners are full timers is statistically erroneous. There are approximately 3,000 owners of LDs, using the only number I have heard for total units manufactured and therefore, to say that 12% are full timers, around 360 would have had to respond to the poll stating they fall into that category - that's more owners than even responded. Sorry Andy, the 12% doesn't hold true.

I would also caution against any global conclusion that 50 years in business makes your business thinking infallible. Just ask all the multi-decades old companies in trouble now.
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98984
Quote
Chevy has refined the exterior styling of the 2009 Kodiak.  Put yourself in the driver's seat @ http://tinyurl.com/ctn9k7

Malcolm
All I can say is "deja vu" regarding a post I made earlier under post #98535 which was captioned "So what year is your LD....really?". Anyone buying one of the three Kodiak chassis the factory has for the new 32' LD is getting what year LD?
 For the record, I liked the apparently obsolete Kodiak front view but the new one is blah.
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #31 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98985
"There are approximately 3,000 owners of LDs... therefore, to say that 12% are full timers, around 360 would have had to respond to the poll stating they fall into that category"
 Your statement appears to rule out any form of statistical sampling.
In other words, you seem to be saying that only if *all* (3,000 or however many) LD owners responded to the poll could we draw any valid conclusions. That's a pretty extreme approach to statistics. ;-)
 I worked with statisticians and psychometricians for the last 16 years of my career, but I don't know of any who would agree with this "all or nothing" approach. Published opinion surveys (such as political or marketing studies) are typically based on 1% of a population--sometimes even less. Such surveys are regarded as statistically valid, provided the sample was well chosen.

By that standard, we have exceptionally good data here, since we've heard from (by your numbers) 7.5% of all LD owners. That's a much larger sample than Gallup, Opinion Research or the other major polling organizations ever get. Unless you can prove that our sample is skewed, it looks to me as if our results are more likely to be valid than 90% of the published opinion polls by the "big guys," simply because we've sampled a much larger fraction of our target population than they manage to do.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #32 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98986
It's not an issue of statistical sampling. It's an issue of potentially flawed extrapolation, as many of the other replies have stated. For example, one of the replies made a comment effectively suggesting not many full-timers buy new. Viewing the poll from a factory perspective, does the poll address that in its conclusions as to viability of a "full-time" LD model?

Frankly, I think far too many dogmatic statements have been made about the accuracy of anything presented here on this subject. I will say that, as a 30+ year broker of companies that get into trouble, I wouldn't put my faith in any business decision based on the data I've seen, and contributed, here.
 As to a guesstimate price of $145,000 the equivalent 32' Bigfoot on a Kodiak 5500 has a base price of around $120,000.

As my intended final comment on this thread, the base issue remains the same, whether you are a full timer or not. To go from a Ford V10 Triton to a Kodiak 5500 is a difference of about $27,000 in 2009 MSRP of the two cut-aways, which is pre-build out. That's a lot of money to pay just to haul more baggage.
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #33 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98987
Quote
As to a guesstimate price of $145,000 the equivalent 32' Bigfoot on a Kodiak 5500 has a base price of around $120,000.

As my intended final comment on this thread, the base issue remains the same, whether you are a full timer or not. To go from a Ford V10 Triton to a Kodiak 5500 is a difference of about $27,000 in 2009 MSRP of the two cut-aways, which is pre-build out. That's a lot of money to pay just to haul more baggage.
The 2009 Born Free 32' Rear Twin model is probably the closest competitor to the new 32' LD on the Kodiak chassis, given that Bigfoot is out of business.  The base price of the 32' Born Free is $146,000.
The Born Free, unlike the LD, does not include an air conditioner, generator, solar panels, etc. in that base price.
 http://www.bornfreemotorcoach.com/products.php?id=15

Sharon N.

Crossville, TN
 
Re: NEW 32ft LD for Full Timers
Reply #34 –
Yahoo Message Number: 98988
Quote

"...As my intended final comment on this thread,..."
Thank you.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB