U S Gear Brake owners January 12, 2008, 09:25:51 am Yahoo Message Number: 88202I am still trying to decide on a braking system. The 06 LD system I purchased came with the U S Gear components on the LD. That is helpful but the bulk of the cost and work is on the toad side of the equation. One question I have is how big is the piece that is installed on the floor in the car? I am just not sure where I can install it in the Chevy HHR and don't know its size.I spoke with the folks at SMI and the size of there is 1' x 4'. If that is the case for the US Gear I may consider it. I hate the cost which will be repeated when and if I replace the toad vs something like the Brake Buddy Vantage but there are always trade offs.Jim
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #1 – January 12, 2008, 10:48:02 am Yahoo Message Number: 88209.....One question I have is how big is the piece that is installed on the Quotefloor in the car? I am just not sure where I can install it in the Chevy HHR and don't know its size.... Jim Jim - We just had our US Gear installed - I will take pics for you and measure the tube thingy under the seat this afternoon and post them for you or send personal email if you like: email me at: jensjems at yahoo dot comAlso, call the great tech guys at US Gear they are FAB and am sure they will give you more details, if their voice mail comes on leave a message and they reply like Johnny-on-the-spot. Off to take your pics - Midnight was wanting to get out of the garage and shake a little dust off ;o)Later, Virginia central Texas
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #2 – January 12, 2008, 11:12:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 88212Quote I am still trying to decide on a braking system. The 06 LD system I purchased came with the U S Gear components on the LD. That is helpful but the bulk of the cost and work is on the toad side of the equation. One question I have is how big is the piece that is installed on the floor in the car? I am just not sure where I can install it in the Chevy HHR and don't know its size.I spoke with the folks at SMI and the size of there is 1' x 4'. If that is the case for the US Gear I may consider it. I hate the cost which will be repeated when and if I replace the toad vs something like the Brake Buddy Vantage but there are always trade offs. We have the US Gear system and REALLY like the ease of hooking up and unhooking. It has worked great for us for about 3 years. I have heard that there have been a few failures of the control box that lives in the towed vehicle, but that US Gear is good about replacing it. We know several other people that run the US Gear system and I believe they are all happy with it.There are really three parts that go into the towed vehicle, the control box, a vacuum pump and the braking solenoid/cable assembly (and wiring of course). The control box is small, probably a few cubic inches. It was easily zip-tied behind my Jeep dash. The solenoid is larger, but can be mounted virtually anywhere in the vehicle. The factory can supply longer versions of the solenoid cable, something like 8' and 12'. The stock cable is maybe 4' long (I'd have to see if I can find the installation docs.) In our Jeep, I mounted the selenoid at the top of the passenger footwell, just below the HVAC stuff. The selenoid on the order of 3"x3"X15". A pulley does need to be mounted on the floorboard under the brake pedal. I never even notice it though. The vacuum pump needs to be mounted near the brake booster, under the hood. It is maybe 4"x4"x6".Hope this helps, Art
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #3 – January 12, 2008, 01:06:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88221...really three parts that go into the towed vehicle, the control box, a vacuum pump and the braking solenoid/cable assembly (and wiring of course).... Hope this helps, ArtHey Jim -Glad to see Art's experienced, much more knowledgeable input on the components than I could personally give. Thanks Art ;o) As I promised I took pics and posted them in an album named "US Gear Installed in '07 Matrix" - they are up under new photos now.Art - thanks for the measurement on the vacuum pump, I forgot to measure it.Here are the measurements I took and hope they help: 10 5/8 in - length of Solenoid with base plate 4 1/4 in - widest width of base plate 2 1/2 in - dia. of metal part of solenoid 3 in - highest point of solenoid 7 in - car seat clearance carpet to under side of seat 4 in - and maybe a hair more of clearance above the solenoid to seat Our equipment was installed by The RV Guy and he also did the wiring for the brake lights so everything worked in harmony. We were/are totally pleased with Mike,s work.We did have a problem with the vacuum pump: as soon as we got home about a week after Mike installed our equipment - I immediately went to turn on the Matrix to let it idle it's designated 3 minutes, the check engine light came on - Hum, I thought I better not mess with this as I hope I did all my set-up each day correctly for Matrix: put in neutral, turn key to Access, let off brake and idle each time stop for a while. - - Next day afraid to drive the Matrix, I towed it to the Toyota dealer service department - they checked all out and said going to take the added equipment off - OH NO, let me call US Gear. I called the Tech guys at US Gear, they were Saints - he called the dealership, discussed issue with them. Before Scott at dealership could call me, the Tech at US Gear called back to tell me what was wrong and what they were going to do: They had decided the vacuum pump was faulty, sent another one to dealership next day air and reimbursed me for the labor. Our Toyota dealership as well as Jim and I were extremely impressed with the immediate response from US Gear and their constant staying on top of the situation. Hope these pics and measurements help - personally we are so sold on US GearHave a great day - Virginia central Texas Starr & Midnight Roadie http://travelingstarr.blogspot.com/
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #4 – January 12, 2008, 01:09:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88222oops - Jim, I forgot - our solenoid is mounted under the drivers seat. Mike did this so it would be totally out of the way. Don't even know it's there -Virginia central Texas Starr & Midnight Roadie http://travelingstarr.blogspot.com/
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #5 – January 12, 2008, 06:50:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88240Quote oops - Jim, I forgot - our solenoid is mounted under the drivers seat. Mike did this so it would be totally out of the way. Don't even know it's there -Virginia central Texas Starr & Midnight Roadie http://travelingstarr.blogspot.com/ Thanks much to both you and Art.One concern I have about the US Gear and SMI units is installation. The local RV dealers in Pensacola do not seem to know how to spell the names of these units much less install them. Clearly from their comments the one they have never installed one. Not sure how far I have to go to find someone who is competent to do this.Jim
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #6 – January 12, 2008, 07:11:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88241QuoteOne concern I have about the US Gear Might try these people, Jim. From the US Gear list of authorized installers. Pensacola, Hill Kelly RV Center, 6171 Pensacola Blvd., 800-633-8591, Contact: Pat Lassiter Pensacola, Leisure Tyme RV, Inc., 6428 Pensacola Blvd., 850-476-6848, Contact: Susan LeeEd
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #7 – January 12, 2008, 07:42:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88242QuoteArt - thanks for the measurement on the vacuum pump, I forgot to measure it. Well, that was just a "guesstimate" from memory. It may be twice or half that size, but it wasn't difficult to find a place for it under our Jeep's hood.Art
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #8 – January 12, 2008, 07:58:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88245...measurement on the vacuum pump...just a "guesstimate" from memory...wasn't difficult to find a place for it under our Jeep's hood. ArtArt - You've got more room under your Jeep's hood than that little Matrix & no it sure does not take up much room. I got out the paperwork that came with ours to get the correct names of the parts - calling the solenoid a thingy just not to clear - Anyway, got to reading & surmised someone with knowledge of auto wiring etc could probably put one of these in - but I do know Mike spent quiet a few hours on the brake system and lights - something to do with the Matrix.Mike also took me out driving to teach me how the system works and adjust the brake control - it was so very easy to get use to. The total cost was not much more that getting one of those box things & sure don't have the headaches those things bring with them as for as I'm concerned. Jim - we hope you find a good installer - remember call US Gear they will help, their great.Later - Virginia http://travelingstarr.blogspot.com/
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #9 – January 13, 2008, 08:18:59 am Yahoo Message Number: 88264Ed wrote:"Might try these people, Jim. From the US Gear list of authorized installers. Pensacola, Hill Kelly RV Center, 6171 Pensacola Blvd., 800-633-8591, Contact: Pat Lassiter Pensacola, Leisure Tyme RV, Inc., 6428 Pensacola Blvd., 850-476-6848, Contact: Susan LeeEd"The good folks at Hill Kelly says they are too much trouble to install and recommended Brake Buddy. Leisure Tyme had no clue as to cost and had never heard of the unit. Carpenter's Campers had no idea and threw out an estimate of 2-4 hours but said it would just depend on how long it took them at $109 per hour labor.I didn't feel the love from any of these folks.Jim[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #10 – January 13, 2008, 11:12:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 88272"The good folks at Hill Kelly says they are too much trouble to install and recommended Brake Buddy. Leisure Tyme had no clue as to cost and had never heard of the unit. Carpenter's Campers had no idea..." Somebody really should notify US Gear so they can take these turkeys off their list. "Too much trouble"--how lame can you get? And any RV center that hasn't heard of US Gear can't be very savvy--US Gear is the 'Blue Ox' of toad braking systems.Jim, if I were you I'd call US Gear, inform them about what these idiots told you, and ask for a recommendation that's more up to date.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #11 – January 13, 2008, 12:49:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88277"The good folks at Hill Kelly says they are too much trouble to install and recommended Brake Buddy'JimUnfortunately, the built-in brake systems do require many hours of installation time. The installation expense for a US Gear or SMI brake can cost as much or more than the brake itself. Many folks probably go for the Brake Buddy after discovering how much a built-in brake it is going to cost. The problem RV shops have is the inability to give accurate estimates on installation time or if they do, the customer flip out at the potential cost. I estimate that it took 8-10 hours to install our SMI unit, along with the towing lights and cab controls. The expense would add up quickly if I had to pay $109 an hour.Larry
DIY built-in brake systems Reply #12 – January 13, 2008, 01:10:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88279On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:49:10 -0000, "Larry W" wrote:QuoteUnfortunately, the built-in brake systems do require many hours of installation time. The installation expense for a US Gear or SMI brake can cost as much or more than the brake itself. ....... QuoteI estimate that it took 8-10 hours to install our SMI unit, along with the towing lights and cab controls. I agree with the time estimate. As a person who has not worked on cars since I was 17, I was able to do the installation myself. Saving money was not the sole reason for doing it myself; I wanted to know how it was wired so that if a problem develops, I would have a shot at being able to trouble shoot it. As reported here, not many RV techs can spell US Gear or SMI and many of the places we go do not even have RV repair facilities.Cheers, Don
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #13 – January 13, 2008, 01:20:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88280....built-in brake systems do require many hours of installation time. The installation expense for a US Gear or SMI brake can cost as much or more than the brake itself...problem RV shops is inability to give accurate estimates on installation time...took 8-10 hours to install our SMI unit, along with towing lights and cab controls. The expense would add up quickly if I had to pay $109 an hour.> LarryJim -We received a quote from The RV Guy with cost of equipment/material and labor - Our actual cost was the same as quote - he has done enough of these to know just how long/much the job is. Our install time was 8 hours and 40 minutes - The quote for the lights was $15 less than actual cost and that was due to price on a part. Our cost of equipment was just a little more than those box thingys and the labor was actually less than quotes we received for the box thingy - We were/are very satisfied with our cost for our US Gear System.Another thing The RV Guy did was take our car - (see our blog for story details) to a Toyota dealer to check on specs etc for installing lights and brake system - An above and beyond extra step in excellent customer service to assist him in preforming install.No way would I consider going with an open ended hourly charge for installing such equipment - There are qualified Techs out there to do quality install of this equipment - you may have to travel to one and it will be well worth doing this - having some idiot muck around with ones LD and not know their ".... from Third Base" is not in the cards. Also, please notify US Gear of those outfits as Andy suggested - real idiots they are. Hum, I will make note of them so never use if in that area and need service.I agree with Don - you could probably do this yourself too.Virginia central Texas http://travelingstarr.blogspot.com/
Re: U S Gear Brake owners Reply #14 – January 13, 2008, 01:55:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88284Quote"...I estimate that it took 8-10 hours to install our SMI unit, along with the towing lights and cab controls. The expense would add up quickly if I had to pay $109 an hour.Quote Larry Larry The shop that installed my SMI system took about six hours to do the complete job. I'll go back there any time I need work done.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: U S Gear Brake owners-SMI install Reply #15 – January 13, 2008, 04:53:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88299"The shop that installed my SMI system took about six hours to do the complete job. I'll go back there any time I need work done."Steve S.6 hours is about right for the basic radio-controlled system, installed by an experience mechanic, on a vehicle with easy access. There are many variables and/or additions that can significantly increase the amount of time to install a system. Keep in mind the harsh operating conditions that that the entire brake system is operated in. The wiring, plumbing and mechanical devices need to be securely attached with high quality hardware and protective coverings. Doing it right can take much, much more time than a quickie install. For example I suggest taking a close look at how LD runs wiring and then seeing how most SOBs are wired. There is a world of difference.I added a few things to the toad brake that increased the install time. The system was hard wired and has an added remote indicator light in the cab to show when the toad's brake lights are activated. A remote test button was installed next to the light. http://tinyurl.com/2f49t8 > A second set of bulbs was installed in the toad's taillights, with new wires running from the umbilical cord plug to the taillights. This eliminated having to use diodes, which reduce the voltage to the taillights. When the brake unit is activated, 2 sets of brake lights are lit, along with the center brake light. It's quite bright. All of the electrical connections between the LD and toad are made through the 7-conductor umbilical cord.It was a lot of work to install the entire system but it has been mostly trouble free, which is remarkable considering how much water and mud the toad (a Jeep Cherokee) and LD have been subjected to during the past four years. An occasional cleaning of the umbilical cord plugs is all that has been required.Larry
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