Reading Lights November 15, 2007, 04:10:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85959What is the current recommendation for new reading lights in the LD, Halogen or LED?Does the 12v Halogen or LED give the best reading light?I am looking to install two reading lights on the TV end of the bed (driver's side) in our RB. To make wiring easy, I would like two swiveling fixtures that I can mount on the TV wall, allowing easy wiring through the wall, behind the TV and over to the 12v for the TV. Do any of you have recommendations for a particular lamp you would recommend, or a special price deal somewhere? I checked the archives, and have looked at such sites as Lowes, West Marine, The 12v Shop, etc on the internet, but would be interested in any recommendations, as there is a confusingly wide range of choices.Barry (We have found that by switching our heads to the driver's seat end of the bed we have fewer problems with the long wooden cabinet at the other end giving shoulder pains in the night. The memory foam covering the cabinet makes it fine for sleeping.)
Re: Reading Lights Reply #1 – November 15, 2007, 05:25:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85962"Does the 12v Halogen or LED give the best reading light?"Barry IMO, halogen beats LED hands down for reading. LEDs make great areas lights but the light is still not concentrated enough, and more importantly, the wrong color. 12 VDC 10-20 watt under-counter lights are very popular but they have become hard to find. The home centers now all stock similar lights but with 120 VAC bulbs. 12 VDC bulbs may interchange but I'm not sure. I will check the next time I'm at Lowes. http://tinyurl.com/384ouk> I made up my own aircraft-style halogen reading lamps from lights I bought at JC Whitney. http://tinyurl.com/33992v> I adapted MR-11 halogen bulbs to fit into the aircraft lamps. We have two 10-watt spot bulbs and are our main reading lights. A third is a 20-watt spot bulb, useful for detail work. It uses twice the power and produces a lot of heat so I use it on when necessary. http://tinyurl.com/3d3t45> MR series bulbs have multifaceted reflectors and a pre focused light capsules. They produce a lot a illumination for the powered used.Check the marine hardware sites for halogen reading lights for a variety of choices.Larry
Re: Reading Lights Reply #2 – November 15, 2007, 05:38:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85963Larry,Thanks for the fast and informative post. Where did you get the dual aircraft light and the adapters for the halogen bulbs. It looks great.Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: Reading Lights Reply #3 – November 15, 2007, 06:16:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85965Larry, Looking at the MR-11 halogen bulbs, they come in a variety of spot angles, form 8 degrees to 40 degrees spot angle. What did you use? What would you recommend for a reading lamp about 2-3' away? A 30 degree spot would give 1 1/2 foot coverage at 2.5 feet. That sounds about right if you don't want to get a real 'spotlight effect'. What do you think?Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: Reading Lights Reply #4 – November 15, 2007, 06:17:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85966Here's my contribution to (only part of) your issue:
Re: Reading Lights Reply #5 – November 15, 2007, 07:24:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85968"In my case, I have inverter near at hand, so I stayed with 40w incandescents."JohnRunning an inverter to power a 40-watt 120 VAC bulb is going to use 50-watts or so. A 10-watt MR-11 halogen bulb is a good size for reading and uses 1/5 the power. For those of us who regularly dry camp, this a not a good choice. If you normally have hookups, this is not a problem.Larry
Re: Reading Lights Reply #6 – November 15, 2007, 08:32:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85974Quote"In my case, I have inverter near at hand, so I stayed with 40w incandescents."JohnRunning an inverter to power a 40-watt 120 VAC bulb is going to use 50-watts or so. A 10-watt MR-11 halogen bulb is a good size for reading and uses 1/5 the power. For those of us who regularly dry camp, this a not a good choice. If you normally have hookups, this is not a problem. I agree completely. If the sun doesn't shine in the next day or two, we'll either have to move on or go to bed without reading. That fits our usage, but it wouldn't work for everybody.Maybe I'll switch to a 7W compact flourescent someday. I wonder if there some halogens that are socket-compatible with those old twentieth century sockets? Still and all, the gooseneck fixtures deliver the light where we like it.John
Re: Reading Lights Reply #7 – November 15, 2007, 08:37:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85975"Where did you get the dual aircraft light and the adapters for the halogen bulbs. "BarryI used a MR-11 FTD. It has a 30 degree spread. The bulb adapter came from West Marine. I cannot find it on their web site now. It may be something that I found in one of their stores or is discontinued.. Our aircraft style lights came from JC Whitney.JCW sold a spacer for these lights but I can not find it now. There is not enough room in the bottom of the overhead cabinets for flush mount so you would need to find or make a spacer. JCW does sell a light with a built-in spacer. I have not seen one so I can not recommend it.Another source of aircraft style lights12 volt undercounter lightsWest Marine Wall mount cabin light. Other possibilities.Go RVLarry
Re: Reading Lights Reply #8 – November 15, 2007, 10:55:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85984I agree with Larry that halogen is going to provide nicer, warmer light. However, like most conventional lighting, it also wastes a fair amount of power in the form of heat. If you boondock a lot, and want to conserve energy, there are nice LED fixtures available that make good reading lights. I installed two in "Yonder" last year and posted the details here. They are mounted on the back window valances of the MB, so are good for reading while sitting on the couch or for reading in bed. Even though Yonder has 400 watts of solar, and four Trojan 105's, I still find myself turning off the regular lighting when it's not being used. I don't worry about those little LED reading lights though!all the best,bumper
Re: Reading Lights Reply #9 – November 16, 2007, 12:47:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 85986I have been reading on other forums some concerns with the LEDs failing when on shore power due to the fact that the converter puting out 14.4 volts. Has anyone that converted to LEDs had this problem?Jerry2000 30 IB
Re: Reading Lights Reply #10 – November 16, 2007, 08:11:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 85991Barry,Just to add more choices -- I used this lamp for bedtime reading when we built our bus conversion many years ago. I continue the search for something that works well in the LD but may just go back to these.http://tinyurl.com/2r34unSafe travels,Dave N 2000RB Albuquerque[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Reading Lights Reply #11 – November 16, 2007, 08:55:39 am Yahoo Message Number: 85994Quote"Where did you get the dual aircraft light and the adapters for the halogen bulbs. "Barry"I used a MR-11 FTD. It has a 30 degree spread. The bulb adapter came from West Marine. I cannot find it on their website now. It may be something that I found in one of their stores oris discontinued..QuoteOur aircraft style lights came from JC Whitney.JCW sold a spacer for these lights but I can not find it now. There is not enough room in the bottom of the overhead cabinets for flush mount so you would need to find or make a spacer. JCW does sell a light with a built-in spacer. I have not seen one so Ican not recommend it.Quote > >Another source of aircraft style lights >12 volt undercounter lights >West Marine > Wall mount cabin light. Other possibilities.Go RV >
Re: Reading Lights Reply #12 – November 16, 2007, 09:16:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 85995Larry,Thanks for doing all of my research. I still liked your surface-mount aircraft-style light, so ordered that from JC Whitney. The information says 5-watt automotive bulbs. I assume this is a bayonet type bulb with the single bottom contact and two side pins at the same height? (Ba15s?) I'm still looking for the adapters or direct halogen bulbs.Thanks again for all of your information.Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: Reading Lights Reply #13 – November 16, 2007, 09:21:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 85998Thanks Bumper, Maybe I'll see if I can put a halogen bulb in one of the fixtures and a LED in the other so we have our choice of light and power consumption.We'll see what is available when I get to ordering bulbs.Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: Reading Lights Reply #14 – November 16, 2007, 09:26:36 am Yahoo Message Number: 86000Thanks Dave. We have tried some of the small reading spot-type lights, and have found that for us, the concentrated light on the page makes for uncomfortable reading. We prefer a more diffuse, spread-out light.I do appreciate the suggestion, however.Barry 2001 Red RB, TX Where are we? http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=122
Re: Reading Lights Reply #15 – November 16, 2007, 09:56:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 86003"What do you mean by "needing a spacer"? Where does the spacer go?"ChrisThe aircraft style lights need 1 1/2" of clearance above them. The back of the light, the swivel part and wire, is hidden from view. In the photos below, you can see the spacer http://tinyurl.com/28k6ky> http://tinyurl.com/33992v> I cannot find the spacers anymore. If I were to do this today, I would cut them out of hardwood or plastic using copping saw or a scroll saw http://www.toolbarn.com/product/delta/SS350LS/?ref=base>Another choice is also sold by JC Whitney. It is the one that I reported that I had not seen. I found of photo of what it looks like. It appears to be all plastic and it has a built-in spacer. http://tinyurl.com/2zjqae> http://www.vintage-vee.com/1961_interior_lights_how-to.html I would be concerned about replacing the standard incandescent bulb with a halogen due to the heat produced by the halogen bulb.I found other adjustable lights that may work. Recessed Spotlight, 12 volt-10 watt, Xenon http://www.swego.com/mall/comet_8780.asp> http://www.swego.com/mall/eyelight_8940.asp> http://www.swego.com/mall/spot_gyro_87071.asp> They require a hole but there is enough room available in the overhead cabinets to mount them.Also found a 12 volt, 1 watt LED Recessed Spotlight http://www.swego.com/mall/nova_9777.asp>There is a wide range of fixtures out there. Google is your friend.Larry
Re: Reading Lights - LED Failures Reply #16 – November 16, 2007, 11:26:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 86005I bought several circuit boards with 24 and some with 30 LEDs from www.superbrightleds.com. They have a standard bulb base that connects into the socket and then two wires go to the circuit board. Most of them have failed either by having a bothersome flashing LED or two or by having up to half of the LEDs quit working altogether. At $15 to $20 per board, I have not purchased any more from them. When they work, they are very nice. I put a piece of sheet metal bent
Re: Reading Lights Reply #17 – November 16, 2007, 11:41:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 86007Jerry, The increase in voltage will not harm the LED lighting. LED's have an acceptable current range in their specs. Designers and manufacturers normally use current limiting resisters to obtain an operating current that is conservatively within that range so that a couple of volts more, as would normally happen when an engine driven alternator is on-line, is not going to exceed the LED max current rating.bumper
Re: Reading Lights - LED Failures Reply #18 – November 16, 2007, 12:24:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86008"I bought several circuit boards with 24 and some with 30 LEDs from www.superbrightleds.com. They have a standard bulb base that connects into the socket and then two wires go to the circuit board. Most of them have failed either by having a bothersome flashing LED or two or by having up to half of the LEDs quit working altogether"Terry A couple of years ago I built several LED fixtures for the outside of our LD. I bought LED bulbs from superbrightleds.com to go into the fixtures. One by one, the LEDs burned out and now all of them are dead. http://tinyurl.com/ysslhq>My guess is that the LEDs are being run at too high an amperage. The long life that LEDs are supposed to have is dependent on maintaining the prescribed current flow. Most small LEDs are specified to be driven at about 20MA. In one of the exterior lights, I used a LED bulb from a broken LED flashlight and adjusted the current flow to 20MA. It is the only one that is still working. http://tinyurl.com/yqy6ad> I built a string of LEDs lights last winter for the side of the LD. I used a string of white LED Xmas lights. http://tinyurl.com/2a3mum> They have been operated several hundred hours and not one LED has burned out. When I rewired the lights for 12 volts, I adjusted the current-limiting resistors to maintain a 20 MA maximum current flow. The fixtures you bought should not have had this problem if they had been properly built. I bet they increased the current flow to produce a brighter light, not caring about the life span.Larry
Re: Reading Lights Reply #19 – November 16, 2007, 12:45:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86009"We have tried some of the small reading spot-type lights, and have found that for us, the concentrated light on the page makes for uncomfortable reading. We prefer a more diffuse, spread-out light." I'm with Barry! I very much prefer an even, shadow-free light for reading.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Reading Lights - LED Failures Reply #20 – November 16, 2007, 12:51:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86010"I bought several circuit boards with 24 and some with 30 LEDs from www.superbrightleds.com. They have a standard bulb base that connects into the socket and then two wires go to the circuit board." I also bought several similar 36-LED arrays with 12V bayonet bases from superbrightleds.com about a year ago. Despite the large number of LEDs, I found them to be too feeble for use either in ceiling or reading lights--even when I ganged two arrays side by side! I also noticed that they ran rather hot (due to the current-limiting resistors), which may have contributed to the failures Terry saw. Mine didn't fail; they were just not bright enough to be useful.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Reading Lights Reply #21 – November 16, 2007, 10:18:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86027Thanks bumper. I found this interesting thread on rv.net about current and how to make your own limiter: http://tinyurl.com/yqdyvhJerry2000 30 IB --- In lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com, "bumperm" QuoteDesigners and manufacturers normally use current limiting resisters to obtain an operating current that is conservatively within that range so that a couple of volts more, as would normally happen when an engine driven alternator is on-line, is not going to exceed the LED max current rating.
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