Stuck in Raton September 28, 2005, 03:45:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58488OK, it's my turn to ask for help. Gertie started up this morning, but then stalled about sixty feet down the campground driveway (Cedar Rail Campground) and won't restart. Because this is an old 1984 carburetted V8 and I'm at 7,836 feet, I'm guessing she's flooded, or at any rate running way too rich. (Her last tuneup was a few months ago in New Jersey at about 150 feet above sea level. ;-) I've let her sit for half an hour and repeatedly tried starting; she cranks vigorously but doesn't catch. I know enough not to pump the accelerator. Camping World roadcare is sending a wrecker to two me into Raton. Meanwhile, any good ideas? Anything I can do to avoid this ion the future otehr than having her retuned for high alytitude and then presumably having too- lean problems at lower elevations? Is this just something I have toi live with due to teh old carburetor technology?Andy Baird
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #1 – September 28, 2005, 05:17:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58490QuoteOK, it's my turn to ask for help. Gertie started up this morning, but then stalled about sixty Quotefeet down the campground driveway (Cedar Rail Campground) and won't restart. Because this Quoteis an old 1984 carburetted V8 and I'm at 7,836 feet, I'm guessing she's flooded, or at any rate Quoterunning way too rich. (Her last tuneup was a few months ago in New Jersey at about 150 feetQuoteabove sea level. ;-)I've let her sit for half an hour and repeatedly tried starting; she cranks vigorously but doesn't Quotecatch. I know enough not to pump the accelerator. Camping World roadcare is sending a Quotewrecker to two me into Raton. Meanwhile, any good ideas? Anything I can do to avoid this ion Quotethe future otehr than having her retuned for high alytitude and then presumably having too- Quotelean problems at lower elevations? Is this just something I have toi live with due to teh oldQuotecarburetor technology?Andy Baird Andy, I know that holding the gas peddle all the way to the floor and then trying to start it used to be a way to strat a vehicle that is flooded. It has worked for me in the old days of carburators.Jeff
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #2 – September 28, 2005, 05:25:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58491"I know that holding the gas peddle all the way to the floor and then trying to start it used to be a way to strat a vehicle that is flooded. It has worked for me in the old days of carburators." Bless you, Jeff--I knew that trick decades ago, but had forgotten it...and it worked almost instantly! I'm heading out as soon as I call off the wrecker.Andy BairdGrateful for such a wonderful group
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Stuck in Raton Reply #3 – September 28, 2005, 08:24:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58496Well if she is flooded you are right to not pump the accelator but you do have to hold it to the floor to let full flow of air in. When a battery cranks and engine over well and its not real cols it isn't hard too clear a flooded engine enough to start.I wouldn't bet on flooded being the answer.. Garry
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Stuck in Raton Reply #4 – September 28, 2005, 09:08:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58500You might want to check the choke pulloff. It's located on the right front side of the carb. When cold and choke plate closed the pulloff pulls in and opens the choke plate. Usually about 1/4 inch. Measured from the top of the choke plate to the airhorn. With the doghouse and aircleaner off, start it up and check that it pulls in. With the engine off you can also remove the vacc hose at the carb, push in all the way on the pulloff stem, cover the end of the vacc hose let go of the stem and the stem should not extend. When cold and the choke is on, when you floor the gas pedal there is an unloader link that opens the choke plate.There about 20$ and easy the install. Hope this helps Dave in RC california
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Stuck in Raton Reply #5 – September 28, 2005, 10:34:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58503Dave, are you located redwood city Ca.? So am I. hemlock8lane no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:You might want to check the choke pulloff. It's located on the right front side of the carb. When cold and choke plate closed the pulloff pulls in and opens the choke plate. Usually about 1/4 inch. Measured from the top of the choke plate to the airhorn. With the doghouse and aircleaner off, start it up and check that it pulls in. With the engine off you can also remove the vacc hose at the carb, push in all the way on the pulloff stem, cover the end of the vacc hose let go of the stem and the stem should not extend. When cold and the choke is on, when you floor the gas pedal there is an unloader link that opens the choke plate.There about 20$ and easy the install. Hope this helps Dave in RC californiaSPONSORED LINKS Automotive technician Insurance recreational vehicle Recreational vehicle financing Automotive equipment Recreational vehicles Recreational vehicle sales[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Stuck in Raton Reply #6 – September 28, 2005, 11:03:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58505I'm further south. Rancho Cucamonga
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #7 – September 30, 2005, 01:39:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 58520"You might want to check the choke pulloff." Thanks, Dave! Is what you're describing a part of the automatic choke, or a system that overrides the automatic choke, or...? I had the exact same problem this morning at Storrie Lake as yesterday at Raton Pass: Gertie started fine, I let her idle for about twenty seconds and thinking all was OK, tried to pull out. Within about fifteen seconds she slowed to a halt and the engine died. I was able to restart using the pedal-to-the-floor trick, but it took continued full throttle to keep the engine running--very roughly, and with a fair amount of black smoke and raw fuel smell. After about five minutes, though, it smoothed out, and from then on it ran like a sewing machine--no problems in the 120-mile drive to Albuquerque. All these places are well over a mile high, and as I mentioned, Gertie's last tuneup four months ago was at sea level. My hypothesis (and I freely admit that I'm no mechanic, so feel free to shoot me down on this): the engine is running way too rich due to reduced oxygen at altitude, and in a cold startup the automatic choke closes and makes the situation much worse by making the mixture even richer. But once the engine warms up enough for the choke to open, leaning out the mixture, it runs fine, barring an occasional backfire on downhill grades (it's still running a bit rich). That seems to fit the observed symptoms, at any rate. If my guess is right, the immediate cure would be a tuneup--but as I said earlier, I don't yet know whether I'm going to stay at high altitudes or descend again.Andy BairdAlbuquerque. NM
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #8 – September 30, 2005, 04:49:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 58525Thanks, Dave! Is what you're describing a part of the automatic choke, or a system that overrides the automatic choke, or...?The choke pulloff is a vacuum diaphragm which pulls the choke plate open after a cold start.When the engine is cold and you depress the accelerator the choke coil close the choke plate. When the engine starts the pulloff retracts and opens the choke plate to allow more air in (leaner) after startup. If the diaphragm leaks and doesn't retract the choke plate stays shut until the choke coil heats up and opens the choke plate. It'll blubber and belch black smoke unless you rev it up to clean it out. A classic Quadrajet problem. Altitude is not your problem. Here in Southern California with many high altitude mountains I've never seen a problem.Sure sounds like a choke pulloff!
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #9 – September 30, 2005, 05:06:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 58527it runs fine, barring an occasional backfire on downhill grades (it's still running a bit rich).Does the LD backfire on down grades and when deaccelerating? If so and the engine is equipped with a air injection pump (injects air into the exhaust) you might want to have the decel-diverter valve checked.
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #10 – September 30, 2005, 05:17:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 58528Image of a Quadrajet Carburator. http://www.atatrials.com/images/choke2.jpg
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #11 – September 30, 2005, 03:34:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58546"Image of a Quadrajet Carburetor. http://www.atatrials.com/images/choke2.jpg'Hemlock8lane (do you have a `real' name?)Thanks for bringing back a lot of bad memories . Having owned four vehicles with Q-jets, I'm way too familiar with them. They are a good carburetor, when operating correctly, but are a rear pain to work on and difficult to tune. On our old LD, my solution was to replace it with an Edlebrook Spread-bore replacement carburetor. Easy to tune and similar enough to the Q-Jet that it always passed California's visual smog test with better than stock emission numbers.Our 1983 LD was the last vehicle we owned with a carburetor and I'm not going back. EFI is the way to go. They are cleaner, more fuel efficient and dependable.Larry
Re: Stuck in Raton Reply #12 – October 01, 2005, 01:39:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58573Andy, The Nov '05 Motorhome magazine referenced a problem like yours on Pg 100. They first thought the problem was a sticking heat riser valve (a.k.a., early fuel evaporation - EFE valve), but the valve was not stuck. They discovered, however, that the vacuum hose to the valve was blocked and was not allowing the riser valve to work properly. They cleared the blockage and the engine worked "like new".It was a 1985 Chevy G-30 chassis/350 cid V-8.Good luck Frank
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