Buying new versus old LD September 07, 2005, 01:12:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 57816My wife and I have become interested in Lazy Daze RVs (please understand, we've never owned an RV before, though), thanks to our friend, Bill Burcham, who owns a '99 30 ft. Before coming to this site, I'd looked around on several sites (escapees, woodalls, etc.), looking for general RV info and have a fairly good idea of the lingo and what to look for (plus, I've been lurking on this board for awhile!). I came across Andy Baird's site (beautifully done, Andy!), which intrigued us more about Lazy Daze and led us to this board. Some questions as we begin the work of figuring out if we're really serious about this and ready to take the next step: Given LD quality, it seems like it may well be worth buying an older and much cheaper model (as Andy did). Paying around $10,000-15,000 for an older LD, then budgeting some serious money for updating, repair, maintenance, etc. could save lots versus a new or relatively new rig. So, to some questions: 1 - Are there model years when specific and worthwhile improvements were added or changes made? For example, "If you want feature `X', get an `86 or later." Someone may already have posted a list of major changes from one model year to the next (although my impression is that LD doesn't make many changes!). Somewhat the same with engines – has LD changed at some point and are there good reasons for wanting a particular one? 2 – How long does the (gasoline) engine tend to last? At what mileage range are you looking at major work (assuming one that has been well maintained)? What's the general experience with these engines? Or other mechanical issues? 3 – Are there specifics to look for in a used LD that aren't obvious? I assume to have the engine inspected, look at maintenance records, make sure everything works, see wear and tear, see how it drives, etc. However, I'm sure there're significant items I WOULDN'T know to look for. 4 – Are there things that can't be easily done with some older models? Or are much easier to do if you know in advance and order a new one with that in mind? Adding solar, satellite for web/email, etc.? Or is it up to your ingenuity (and budget)? I know those who've bought new will like their experience and those who've bought an older model will love that, too, but what's your personal experience (perhaps especially those who've bought older models)? If you've owned an older LD and then bought a new one, what benefits (or not) did the new one bring?Thanks so much in advance for any answers/opinions!Richard
Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #1 – September 07, 2005, 06:29:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 57817If you've owned an older LD and then bought a new one, what benefits (or not) did the new one bring? .............Richard,When I first got the bug, I purchased a '92 MB to see how I would like it. We liked it enough that we decided to upgrade to a newer one. I found a good 2003 model with low miles.To be honest, the differene between a '92 and a 2003 was like night and day for me. The 2003 is on a wide body platform that makes it feel so much bigger inside (although the floor plan has only slightly changed). The other big difference is the ride and handling. The newer E450 platfom and that wonderful V10 is far superior to the E350 V8 set up on my '92 IMHO.Don't get me wrong, the '92 was very nice but when you have a newer one, you will get this big smile on your face. There are others on here that will have similar experiences I bet.Other things to note are: double windows, lighter wood interior, more room in the cockpit, towing capacity, larger tanks.Good luck,Jeff in NC
Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #2 – September 07, 2005, 07:35:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 57818Hi Richard, Take a look at a couple of the excellent resources in the "Files" section: Eudoro's "Changes in LD Models over the Years" will give a lot of info relevant to your item (1), such as when the wider body and 450 engine were introduced. Within the FAQ folder, Andy's "How do I shop for a Used LD?" has a good list of things to remember when you're checking out a used rig (your item 3). Be especially vigilant about interior body condition; damage from leaks can be extremely expensive, or even impossible, to fix. Personally, I'm at an earlier phase of the same check-it-out process that Richard described: Last winter, I bought a '94 TK to see what all this commotion was about. It was literally the first LD I'd ever seen, but for $17K I snapped it up. Despite having over 120,000 miles (with a recent new transmission), it has been reliable and trouble-free, needing only a set of tires, which I knew about from the start because of their age. One of my relatives recently had to give up his comparable Ford with 354,000 miles on it. Many of the appliances and fixtures (refrigerator, water pump, etc.) have a limited lifespan of around 10 years, so this is a risk with an older rig. Frankly, I'm not sure that even an LD that would sell for $10-15K would be worth investing in major improvements like solar and satellite; like Richard, if I decide to get serious about this I'll go for newer.Joanne in Boston 1994 teal TK NE-44
Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #3 – September 07, 2005, 12:46:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57824Quote Given LD quality, it seems like it may well be worth buying an older and much cheaperQuotemodel (as Andy did). Richard Richard- We bought an '86 LD Multi-plan on e-bay a couple of summers ago, and discovered that there are lots of little things that can be wrong and unnoticed to the untrained eye... Most of them were easily fixed by myself, but if you weren't a shade tree handyman, it could be a nightmare.For the complete story, check out these two links:First, a little site about our LD- http://www.andersonarc.com/ld/ld.htmlAnd, a page about the purchase experience and the "issues"- http://www.andersonarc.com/ld/ldsale.htmlSeeing the rig in person before you buy is a must, so that you can walk away, negotiate a lower price for visible problems, or find that everything is just right. We are very happy with our LD now that we've worked out all the bugs. We wanted a "starter" rv, one that was well built, inexpensive, and able to handle our sometimes roudy younger kids without any stress over spills and dings. If we were to get more serious about rv'ing when our kids are older, we would probably spend the money for a newer rig.Pete
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #4 – September 07, 2005, 02:35:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57827It wouldn't have been any surprise to me if I bought an 18 year old motorhome to find a zillion things wrong with it. Especially at that price. I would look at it as a fixer-upper no matter how it was described. I agree that the buyer should have been more honest about the true condition. Model years are funny things. I went round and round with a new car dealer in California on a trade-in back in the 60's. The DMV gave me a song and dance about when the car was sold vs when it was manufactured. Finally got that straightened out. When we bought an LD in 1975, it was built quite a few coaches after LD began building 76's because we agreed to accept an existing 75 chassis rather than getting on the waiting list for a 76. As a result, we had a completely 76 motorhome on a 75 Dodge chassis. The chassis was the controlling factor, however, so the registration showed that it was a 75. I would have listed it as a 76 motorhome on a 75 chassis. The true year should have become immediately apparent when the registration and title were examined.That was an original factory color as far as my eye can tell by the photographs. Except that it was used in the 70's, not the 80's. My invoice shows that it was called Ochre.Dick
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #5 – September 08, 2005, 12:08:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57853QuoteIt wouldn't have been any surprise to me if I bought an 18 year old motorhome to find a zillion things wrong with it. Especially at that price. QuoteI would look at it as a fixer-upper no matter how it was described. I agreeQuotethat the buyer should have been more honest about the true condition.QuoteDick Dick- Like you, we weren't expecting perfection in an 18 year old RV, just honesty... The mis-representation of the condition of the LD by the seller was blatant. And we drove 7 hours to see it first hand, it's not like it was across town. I'm the type who enjoys tinkering and fixing this kind of stuff, and when we layed eyes on the LD for the first time, I knew that there would be considerable time spent fixing it up, but bought it anyway. There's really nothing that can't be fixed on an RV like this, except maybe extensive dry rot. I just would have appreciated knowing about the problems going into the deal. I suppose the seller figured he'd never sell it if he told potential buyers what it really needed.QuoteModel years are funny things. I knew that on most RV's the chassis and the coach had different years, usually a year apart. Our LD was advertised as an '87, which would make one assume that it had an '86 chassis. It is actually an '85 chassis with an '86 coach. This effectively reduced the NADA book value by about $1000 dollars, making it less of a deal for us. A simple mistake or typo by the seller, maybe... or maybe not.All in all, I would have bought our LD again, except for the one criticle problem, the dry rot. If I were to buy another used RV, I would go over the rig with a fine tooth comb, in every nook and cranny, inside and out, looking for rot. If it is bad, there's no replacing it at an affordable cost, making the rv worthless. One of the reasons I like the LD design is the corner wall to roof details. The caps are a very effective seal relative to most other manufacturers. The water problem on our LD, was not the corners, but the windows. The rubber gasket seal between the window and aluminum skin on the coach had dried out, and there was no seal at all on some of the windows. The worst one being the large dinette window. I've relaced some of the offending rot where possible, like the supports that hold the running boards in place (the drivers side fell off the first time I stepped on it) and the bottom structure of the coach door. The rest of it will have to remain as is, because the rig isn't worth the cost of the repairs. It will serve us over the next 5 to 8 years just fine, so I'm not too worried about it. I've re-sealed all of the windows, and eliminated all the leaks to prevent further damage to the rest of the coach, and I also live in a very dry climate which helps too.Food for thought.Pete
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Buying new versus old LD Reply #6 – September 08, 2005, 12:56:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57854The dry rot would have certainly done it for me. The other things are fixable, but that can be a nightmare.Dick
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