Lazy Daze Owners' Group

road wander - longish comment

February 20, 2001, 09:13:36 am

Yahoo Message Number: 2164

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"With Steer Safe, our last class C drove much like our large wagon on smooth roads, even with severe crosswinds."

Unfortunately, the concept of handling - the vehicle's response to input from the driver and the road - is a highly subjective issue. Each of us has a standard we use for comparion, but communicating our judgements on an absolute level is impossible. Likely, I believe though, is that we all have a similar feeling for what is acceptable and what is not. The difference between what is acceptable vs. an obtainable 'ideal' is murky.

Our Lazy Daze, 10 yrs old when we purchased it, had at that time unacceptable handling. As I had little experience then with vehicles over 2500 lbs, I assumed its behavior - it was comfortable to drive 99% of the time - was normal for the genre. Steering corrections in crosswinds or when passed by semis were required, but still I would say it was better in this respect and in directional stability in normal driving than a good many class-A's fresh off the factory floor.

However, the occasional road-rut or whoop-de-doo in a turn would bring out the white knuckles, and after years, I decided this required my attention.

Actually, a fairly simple diagnostic pointed out the sad state of the pitman arm and idler, and removing the shocks for inspection showed three were worn and one was useless. These items were replaced, along with a front wheel bearing, and as a result NONE of the dangerous behaviors detailed in the last paragraph exist any more.

My success here prompted me to try some modifications to further improve NORMAL handling, especially in regards wind effects. Increasing roll stiffness in the front and rear has improved agility dramatically, and wind performance by an order of magnitude. MY standard, though, is MY car - an old Acura Integra with 178,000 miles. I don't expect the 22' LD to be able to stick on its tail driving through the mountains, so it impresses me that it does as well as it does. However, any wind gust less than about 60 mph is not even felt in the Acura, and the same is certainly not true yet of the m'home.
Unfortunately, I don't drive many comparables, so I really don't know what I SHOULD expect. Anecdotal reports from others are interesting, but their relative judgements will necessarily be different from mine.

The search for perfection continues - all input is appreciated.

Steve

road wander - longish comment

Reply #2 – February 20, 2001, 11:18:50 am

Yahoo Message Number: 2167

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"Taken out of contxt, my sentence you quoted could seem incomplete."

Actually Don, my quote from you was in context with my comments. I used it for two purposes:

- 1) the subjective nature of our comparisons which are useful to us, but difficult for others to put in perspective.

- 2) to indicate which post I was reading before responding, as a backup to the message designation provided by Yahoo.

In no way was I disagreeing with your assessment nor implying anything objectionable about your choice of comparisons. I have no experience driving a BMW wagon, so useful as it is to you, it is a pretty unique example.
Likewise, my comparing the behavior of our LD to my Integra is the tool I have at hand, but not relevant to most others (especially since my car has mods).

As a final note, we HAVE had an explosive front blowout at 65 mph, with my wife at the wheel. This occurred BEFORE any repairs or upgrades to the running gear (before new front tires too!), and she had no trouble at all bringing it to a controlled stop on the shoulder - no pulling or swerving. Inherently, these things (Chevy anyway) handle such an event far better than your typical SUV, and probably won't profit much in emergency situations from add-ons.

My experience with Steer-Safe is nil, but my impression is that it's main function is to remove all free-play from the suspension and steering linkage. It this correct? If so, does it really help much if the suspension is already tight?

Steve

road wander - longish comment

Reply #4 – February 20, 2001, 04:13:59 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 2183

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Steve, I know what you mean about car comparisons. We have two, usually traded every two or three years or so, usually plus one being restored. As to mods, it's getting harder and harder to find mods that are really improvements, isn't it.

Installing either a Steer Safe or a Safe-T-Plus would be a mistake, in my opinion, for anything with an out of spec steering / suspension system.
The Steer Safe uses a parallelogram spring and bar linkage, acting on the front wheel spindle to keep the front wheels pointed straight ahead until a steering input is made through the tie rods.
The Safe-T-Plus replaces the chassis manufacturer's steering dampener and contains not only hydraulic dampening but also a centering spring which tends to keep the tie rods centered until a steering input is received by the steering arm. So yes, in my opinion, these units do really help improve steering control even when the steering linkage is in 100% A+ condition.

As for emergency tire blowout control, we'd expect to have no difficulty on most roads we travel with the stock steering. However, I'm sure safety control will be considerably improved on narrow, secondary mountain roads, should a blowout occur, with either of the two mentioned units. I do not know, though, if either are available for earlier Ford or Chev Class C chassis.

Everone I have talked with who has the Steer Safe installed on a Class C has been consistent in praising the improvement in steering, stability and reduced effect from side winds and those very few drivers of large trucks who seem to enjoy seeing how close they can get when they pass.

Continued Safe Driving, Don McG

road wander

Reply #6 – February 20, 2001, 06:13:42 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 2189

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Shortly after picking up our LD in 1986 (maybe 5000 miles), I had a wandering problem and took it in for a wheel alignment. Figured that the alignment should be customized to the way we had the coach loaded.

The idler arm was loose. You could pretty easily raise and lower the attachment point to the drag link and tie rod up/down about 1-1/2-inch. I had the idler arm replaced with a Moog heavy duty; and the caster set at 5-deg.

At about 55,000 miles, the idler arm was still tight, and there was some wander. I did a half-way adjustment of the steering box, but did not dissassemble it to do a proper job of setting the first of the two adjustments called for in the shop manual. I just took up the slack in the external preload adjustment. A couple of trips around the block were necessary to back out the adjustment to where the steering would return to center.

After that, no problem with wander.

Ball joints can have an uncomfortable amount of free play and still be in-tolerance according to Chevy's service specifications.

Before changing out the idler arm, try "screwing it" tighter.
Many Chevy/GMC trucks have idler arms that can be adjusted by simply turning them 360-deg. This includes current production L/M vans (Astros, Safaris).

good luck

bob

road wander

Reply #8 – February 20, 2001, 06:45:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 2196

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"Before changing out the idler arm, try "screwing it" tighter."

I've changed both the idler and pitman - both were badly worn and the linkage is now tight with no discernable play.

I'm interested in your adjustment of the sector end-play. I was afraid to overtighten, so did not adjust it as far as you have. Maybe I'll try your technique.

Steve