Maybe a LD In Our Future July 12, 2003, 12:35:11 am Yahoo Message Number: 24404My wife and I have owned two Class A coaches...a Foretravel U320 and a Country Coach Magna. Currently, we do not have a coach and have decided that we're either going to buy a Trek Class A or a LazyDaze Class C.We spent some time at the factory recently and met Ed Newton, the founder of the company.We tentatively decided that the 26 foot, mid-bath was the floorplan we liked the best. However, we really like the Safari Trek floorplans better.A result of our visit, I have some questions which I am hoping some of you out there can provide answers to or at least an opinion.1) I was quite surprised when I saw the interiors. It's like going back to the 60's and 70's...what's up with the decorating? Is there any reason why the interiors are so very old-fashioned looking? 2) I felt that the cabinetry offered was quite cheap looking, other than the wood frames, but the panels were vinyl-clad luan. And the sinks were plastic and small, the countertops were some sort of molded plastic too, not Corian or even a laminate.3) I also noticed that the TV's offered were small and positioned such that in most of the floorplans, you couldn't watch the TV unless both people sat on the same sofa, otherwise the angle of viewing was too narrow.4) I also got the impression while there that they really do not care if you buy or don't buy. I felt that if I made any suggestions for improvements or offered any criticism at all, they wouldn't sell to me. Is this what everyone puts up with to own one of these? What happened to the customer is king? 5) From what I've read, these units are reliable and trouble-free from the get-go. Is this correct? 6) I'll be the first to agree that the vehicles are beautfully finished on the exterior, but those antiquated interior cabinets and furnishings...why haven't they brought this up-to-date? Those chnages wouldn't affect the performance or reliability.7) Perhaps we are not Lazy Daze people...but all I wanted was a reliable Class C that was comfortable and built well. Form what I've seen, the LD are just that. I just cannot seem to get over the tkae- it-or-leave-it attitude I felt while there at the factory. I know that Safari (now Monaco) does not have a very good reputation for reliability and customer service, but from what I've read on their owner's group messages, most owners are quite happy with their Trek coaches...and the don't have to wait 8 months to get one.Having come from Class A's, the Trek much more closely resembles what we are used to. I know they're not the same as a diesel pusher, but they do seem to offer a lot for the price.I would love to be convinced that the Lazy Daze is the best choice, but so far, I am not. Someone, please fill me in on what I have missed in my evaluations.Any comments would be apprecited.
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #1 – July 12, 2003, 01:42:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 24406Quote2) I felt that the cabinetry offered was quite cheap looking, other than the wood frames, but the panels were vinyl-clad luan. And the sinks were plastic and small, the countertops were some sort of molded plastic too, not Corian or even a laminate. LD interiors are made of high-quality but very lightweight materials - class-C chassis do not have the loading capacity of a large diesel pusher. The materials actually last decades with no sign of wear-and- tear. There are several class-C models out there with Corian countertops and oak cabinetry, and most are overloaded right off the dealer lots. If you want that 'luxury' regardless of price you might look at Bigfoot or ilk - but I doubt you'll like them either. I don't know what styling issues you have with the LD decor - but again, these are small coaches, designed with significantly lower profile than most class-C's and -A's, and these constraints require efficiency over lavish waste of space. It is a coach whose design you appreciate more over time, rather than with a casual glance.The small Trek has a nice layout, but it is tall, heavy, can be a nightmare on the road, and worse if your 'magic-bed' contraption derails. You simply would not be able to take it places a LD can manage with ease. It has no oven, a 2-burner stove, no visibility out the back. This you are used to, but these are just some of the distinct design failures to the LD purchaser. Perhaps you will not really be happy with a smaller m'home?Steve
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #2 – July 12, 2003, 10:53:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 24409QuoteMy wife and I have owned two Class A coaches...a Foretravel U320 and a Country Coach Magna. LD is not the same as a Foretravel or Country Coach. It was never intended to be. The reliability and attention to detail are similar. The LD will cost you about 22% of the cost of one of those others. Ed says he could charge much more but he doesn't want to get greedy.QuoteWe spent some time at the factory recently and met Ed Newton, the founder of the company. Ed has his way of doing business. He listens to customers and then interprets their needs in his own way. With an 8 month waiting list for his product he must be doing something right. Country Coach would love to have such a problem. Let me weigh in on your questions.Quote1) I was quite surprised when I saw the interiors. It's like going back to the 60's and 70's...what's up with the decorating? Is there any reason why the interiors are so very old-fashioned looking? The decorating on other coaches is glitzy and gets tiresome after a few years. LD decorating is understated so it won't show dirt. For color you add your own colored pillows and cushions if you wish.Quote 2) I felt that the cabinetry offered was quite cheap looking, other than the wood frames, but the panels were vinyl-clad luan. And the sinks were plastic and small, the countertops were some sort of molded plastic too, not Corian or even a laminate. The cabinetry may look cheap but it is designed to be light, strong and easily cleaned. You can stand on the floor of the closet or hang from the overhead cabinets. They are extremely strong. Countertops and sinks are designed for strength and durability without weight. Motor Home Mag's review says it is the quietest coach they've ever driven 3) I also noticed that the TV's offered were small and positioned Quotesuch that in most of the floorplans, you couldn't watch the TV unless both people sat on the same sofa, otherwise the angle of viewing was too narrow. LD campers are not couch potatoes; they spend a lot of time moving about, traveling from place to place. They usually don't park in one place for three months like a snowbird and sit around watching TV.Quote4) I also got the impression while there that they really do not care if you buy or don't buy. I felt that if I made any suggestions for improvements or offered any criticism at all, they wouldn't sell to me. Is this what everyone puts up with to own one of these? What happened to the customer is king?What you experienced was the fact that there are no dealers and no salesmen. There is no pressure to buy; they just show you what they make and either you like it or not. They will sell to you, just give them a check for $4000 and they are all ears. You will not talk to a salesman; Ed will take your order!Quote 5) From what I've read, these units are reliable and trouble-free from the get-go. Is this correct? Based one the polls of all RV owners it is among the most reliable and strongest units on the road. A video from a LD owner who fell asleep at the wheel and rolled his LD shows that the side windows didn't even break. The rear window was knocked out by his dingy. He and his copilot walked away unscathed. Try that with a Trek. It will probably go "poof" on impact.Quote6) I'll be the first to agree that the vehicles are beautfully finished on the exterior, but those antiquated interior cabinets and furnishings...why haven't they brought this up-to-date? Those chnages wouldn't affect the performance or reliability. The cabinets are not antiquated, they are specifically designed for travel. They are not like your cabinets at home; the design of which hasn't changed for 50 years. The cushions are specially designed for the rigors of hard use. They will not collapse like other brands.Quote 7) Perhaps we are not Lazy Daze people...but all I wanted was a reliable Class C that was comfortable and built well. Form what I've seen, the LD are just that. I just cannot seem to get over the tkae-it-or-leave-it attitude I felt while there at the factory.The average RV buyer keeps his rig for 22 months. The average LD owner keeps his rig for 96 months. That's 8 years. There must be a reason. Get over that feeling, it comes from years of paying too much for surface glitz with little substance underneath.Quote I would love to be convinced that the Lazy Daze is the best choice, but so far, I am not. Someone, please fill me in on what I have missed in my evaluations.In this world, everybody makes their choice and pays their money. You are free to do whatever you like. I recommend you do your research well and then come to your own conclusion. You may buy an LD or you may buy a Trek. In either case you will be convinced in your own mind and be happier.Tim M
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future (long) Reply #3 – July 12, 2003, 11:18:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 24411A few general points to consider. People buy Lazy Daze first and foremost for quality. Efficiency of layout and a very attractive price when compared with *equally well equipped* (and I stress that) class Cs are also big factors. You yourself alluded to Monaco's poor reputation. But why go by reputation? Let's look at the RV Consumer Group's "Green Book," the only complete and unbiased source of information in the industry. Lazy Daze models get four or five stars. Trek models get...none. That's right, Lazy Daze has the highest possible rating and Trek has the lowest. Why is that? Well, a quick glance through the Green Book's detailed specs shows that Trek motorhomes have a wheelbase-to-length ratio that's rated "dangerous" (due to hazardous handling) while Lazy Daze is rated "good"; Trek's payload weight ratings are "cautionary" (in other words, inadequate) while Lazy Daze's are good to excellent; Trek's durability is rated 76 (vs. 90 for Lazy Daze); highway control is rated 43-50 (vs. 91-96 for Lazy Daze); highway safety is rated 36-47 (vs. 89-94 for Lazy Daze); and value is rated 77 (vs. 95 for Lazy Daze). Again, this information comes from a nonprofit organization with no industry sponsors and no axe to grind...except improving safety and value for consumers. Are the Lazy Daze interiors "antiquated"? Well, opinions vary, but obviously you don't care for them, and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, since you'll have to live with what you buy. Let's just say that most Lazy Daze owners are not such slaves to fashion that our coaches have to sport the last word in interior decor (which of course will be out of date next year). We're more interested in the fact that we're out RVing while Monacos sit in the shop. ;-) As for the Newtons' attitude about changes...think of it this way. Monaco dealers, like most in the industry, are trying every trick on the book to move rigs off their overcrowded lots. By contrast, Lazy Daze *has no inventory*. There are no Lazy Daze coaches sitting around waiting for buyers. What they have instead is a seven- to eight-month waiting list--and that's been true for many years. When your product is so desirable that people are lining up eight months in advance to buy it, you have little reason to redo the interior decor every year, or kowtow to every customer's "could you move that cabinet over here and put this chair against the back wall?" whim. The Newtons are actually quite willing to make small changes such as adding electrical outlets and so on--but they won't change their floorplans (which many feel are the best in any class C) or their upholstery fabrics for you. They would not be able to maintain their prices if they did--and as RVCG notes, Lazy Daze offers exceptionally high value compared to almost any other RV. Items like a generator that are a multi-thousand-dollar option on many other makes are standard on an LD. And LD payload capacities are calculated *with* all those standard items--whereas other makes ship stripped rigs from the factory and then let dealers load them up with "options" that can reduce the placarded CCC by hundreds of pounds. Don't think, however, that the Newtons are stuck in the past. While you were cringing at the upholstery, Lazy Daze was quietly continuing to improve their product by adding a better kitchen faucet, a quieter water piump, a larger LCD-panel TV (coming in the 2004 models) and a myriad of other small changes that add up to even better durability and value. The fact that many of us are driving Lazy Daze rigs that are ten, fifteen or even twenty years old and still in excellent condition is testomony to their build quality. (I own an '85 myself--see my http://www.andybaird.com/travels/> "Travels with Gertie" website for more information.) What it boils down to is your priorities. Lazy Daze offers exceptionally safe, durable, trouble-free coaches that provide excellent value...with interiors that you find "outdated." Trek offers fashionable interiors...at the cost of mediocre quality and value, inadequate payload, fatiguing handling and very poor highway safety. Most of us feel that you can get used to an interior...but if your coach spends most of its time in the shop--or worse, ends up splattered across the highway--a fashionable interior isn't going to do you much good. It's your choice.Andy Baird :-)
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #4 – July 12, 2003, 11:31:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 24414My wife and I are
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #5 – July 12, 2003, 04:01:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24423--- rvingagain3 mrhummer3@...> wrote:QuoteMy wife and I have owned two Class A coaches...a Foretravel U320 and a Country Coach Magna. Currently, we do not have a coach and have decided that we're either going to buy a Trek Class A or a LazyDaze Class C.I would love to be convinced that the Lazy Daze is the best choice, but so far, I am not. Someone, please fill me in on what I have missed in my evaluations.Any comments would be apprecited.Just a few thoughts regarding LD: RV Consumers Buying Guide rates probably 1550 RVs and Trailers....Lazy Daze is one of about six manufacturers that receive FIVE STARS. For example, when you move to a LD from a class "A" motorhome you improve your safety/survival rating from about 2-3 to a 9 on a 1 to 10 scale.Interiors may seem like the 60's but quality and durability are there. Someone in our group recently raved about their "new" purchase of a 1987 Lazy Daze!You met Ed Newton, a man obsessed with producing a quality RV....thus an eight wait. Quality and quantity don't alwasys go together.And last observation....My cost for my ordered LD is about $18,000 less that comparable units. Guess as a retired purchasing agent cost still matters! Also, this group is a remarkable asset (essentially free) to any LD owner!Bill Wait Order #8029 SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #6 – July 13, 2003, 03:07:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 244404) I also got the impression while there that they really do not care if you buy or don't buy. I felt that if I made any suggestions for improvements or offered any criticism at all, they wouldn't sell to me. Is this what everyone puts up with to own one of these? What happened to the customer is king? You are absolutely right! They don't care if you buy one or not! They are presently 6 to 7 months behind in their orders. They know, and I mean "KNOW" that they have a quality product and to change any of the floorplans or anything else would require them to deviate from the well established and successful routine that they have in Place. They are great friendly people. We're from Delaware and we have 50k miles on our rig (a 1999 23 1/2 ft twin King)including a trip to Alaska. For details on our adventures go to http://members.bellatlantic.net/~kermit1
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #7 – July 14, 2003, 01:14:22 am Yahoo Message Number: 24458Many members have already addressed quite elegantly exactly why an LD is not, and should not, be elegant! And I agree. I want simple, so I can add my own touches, and also so I do not quickly tire of the surface "prettiness" of some of the fancy units out there. But more importantly, I want a rig that will be safe, last a long time, perform flawlessly, and be comfortable. So far, with our 2001 RK LD, so good!Recently, my husband added a 12 v outlet near the sofa in our rig. When he looked at the wiring he was able to get to, he was amazed. He said it was a piece of art. Every wire was straight and neat, tied down in more places than necessary, etc. He said it was so beautiful he wanted to take a picture of it to add to our photo album. So, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people like fancy cabinets and fixtures. I'll take the beauty of a rig that is built to last and provide trouble free use.I believe that if you decide on a smaller class C, as compared to the class A you were accustomed to, the LD would most certainly be the right choice.Good luck in your decision making process, and may the best RV win!Linda
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #8 – July 14, 2003, 09:55:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24498"My wife and I have owned two Class A coaches...a Foretravel U320 and a Country Coach Magna. Currently, we do not have a coach and have decided that we're either going to buy a Trek Class A or a LazyDaze Class C."First of all how can you even consider such a horribly constructed vehicle as the Trek after owning 2 of the finest quality Class A coaches on the market? The Trek may look nice but it certainly isn't built well nor does it handle well! "We tentatively decided that the 26 foot, mid-bath was the floorplan we liked the best. However, we really like the Safari Trek floorplans better."Don't just buy based on floorplan! That's the thing that has caused most RV mfgs to totally disregard carrying capacity, weight balance, handling, and many other things that really are important. You should look for the best of both worlds and that includes a floorplan you can live with and the other important characteristics like handling, cargo capacity, weight balance and distribution, etc.1) I was quite surprised when I saw the interiors. It's like going back to the 60's and 70's...what's up with the decorating? Is there any reason why the interiors are so very old-fashioned looking?"What other Class Cs have you looked at? I haven't seen a lot of difference in the other Class C interiors and that of Lazy Daze. Born Free has nice cabinets but that's about it. Chinook has decent cabinetry and nice counters but falls short in many areas. Coach House has some nice features also but isn't in the same class as a LD in many areas. Even looking at many of the Class As you find very similar interiors. They aren't going to win any interior design awards but I really haven't seen much in any RV that would and from the looks of some of the interiors that have won awards for design that I've seen most are horrible to me and my wife. As they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The LD interior is well designed, functional, strong, and most importantly for a Class C lightweight. I've heard this "dated" remark before but personally I don't believe they are. "2) I felt that the cabinetry offered was quite cheap looking, other than the wood frames, but the panels were vinyl-clad luan. And the sinks were plastic and small, the countertops were some sort of molded plastic too, not Corian or even a laminate." First of all Corian is PLASTIC and so are laminates! The LD counters, sinks, and shower/tub and surround are fiberglass and yes gelcoat on fiberglass is also PLASTIC. They are all polymers, just different types. The LD counters are laminated to the underlying plywood and they seal everywhere there are seams with lots of high quality sealant. You won't have problems with it delaminating like many other RVs with laminate counters. It doesn't have the look of Corian but it also doesn't have the weight so you have more available capacity for the things you want to bring with you WITHOUT being overloaded! Sure the cabinets aren't as nice as some including even brands like Gulfstream, but they are well made and won't fall off the walls like some other brands do! Go ahead and hang from them. Again, they are light weight but very strong and they don't creak and squeak like other brands do either."3) I also noticed that the TV's offered were small and positioned such that in most of the floorplans, you couldn't watch the TV unless both people sat on the same sofa, otherwise the angle of viewing was too narrow."Again, what other Class Cs have you been in? Unless they had an entertainment center and large screen TV they all have small TVs in not very good places, IF they even have one! The 2004 model will have Sharp LCD TVs. The 26' models will get 15" and the 30' and those with entertainment centers 20". We haven't got a problem with the TV in our LD and there are 3 of us watching when we watch TV. My daughter does most the TV watching but that's videos while we're traveling. Guess it depends on how much TV you like to watch. What's wrong with sitting on the same sofa? In the 26.5MB you can also make up the bed and watch TV very comfortably."4) I also got the impression while there that they really do not care if you buy or don't buy. I felt that if I made any suggestions for improvements or offered any criticism at all, they wouldn't sell to me. Is this what everyone puts up with to own one of these? What happened to the customer is king?" Why should they care if you buy or not when they sell every unit they can make 8 months before they can deliver it? The no pressure tactic and allowing you to explore their offering without being in your face is a nice change from most RV sales. They're there to answer any questions when you have them but let you roam and explore to make your decisions without any "selling". If you do buy from them they treat you very well and have great customer service second to none and in fact unequaled by most."5) From what I've read, these units are reliable and trouble-free from the get-go. Is this correct?"Absolutely, why do you think people wait 8 months to get one?"6) I'll be the first to agree that the vehicles are beautifully finished on the exterior, but those antiquated interior cabinets and furnishings...why haven't they brought this up-to-date? Those chnages wouldn't affect the performance or reliability." Are you sure about that? Putting heavy weight items in up high would have a big affect on performance when you consider the center of gravity of the vehicle. The interiors you call antiquated are very similar to many other interiors in the Class C arena and most other RV types as well. They aren't the type you find in $200k and up rigs but they don't cost anywhere near that either."7) Perhaps we are not Lazy Daze people...but all I wanted was a reliable Class C that was comfortable and built well. Form what I've seen, the LD are just that. I just cannot seem to get over the tkae- it-or-leave-it attitude I felt while there at the factory."Perhaps you're not Lazy Daze people. But you seem to have purchased well-made reliable vehicles in the past so why on earth would you want to get something as poorly built and rated as a Trek? The take- it-or-leave-it attitude has worked well for LD for years and since they have such a long waiting line for vehicles why should they change it? What would you do if you where in their shoes and why? "I know that Safari (now Monaco) does not have a very good reputation for reliability and customer service, but from what I've read on their owner's group messages, most owners are quite happy with their Trek coaches...and the don't have to wait 8 months to get one." Safari/Monaco not having such a good reputation is an understatement! Monaco has ruined many a company like Holiday Rambler for instance! Although the Trek owners may like their vehicles and may be happy with them you don't know what they are used to. The RV industry has more bad manufacturers than good and most people that have owned other brands or heard from people that do expect that they aren't going to get anything well made. Most feel having to take their rig back to the dealer for "the usual little problems" over and over again is what you must expect if you want to RV. It doesn't have to be that way IF you buy quality from the start.Since you are used to some high quality Class As I can understand your perspective. You may be better off and happier just looking into getting another high quality Class A. I'm sure you won't be happy with a Trek even if you do like the way they look and some of their features. Look beyond the fancy facade and closely at the quality of workmanship and construction. Things are always what they appear to be. Many RV manufacturers use the old magicians trick of misdirection to make you think you are getting something of quality because they look nice. Once you look beyond the facade at the substance you find many are like a Hollywood film set where there's nothing behind the facade of substance.The decision on what to get is entirely up to you. Good luck with whatever you decide on!Mike R.
Re: Maybe a LD In Our Future Reply #9 – July 15, 2003, 02:09:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 24516Quote...those antiquated interior cabinets and furnishings...why haven't they brought this up-to-date? The answer to that is so easy. It's like flat top hair cuts. They're waiting for them to come back into style!Seriously... I have no problem at all with high quality, plain, conservative, old fashioned. I've had my fill of fancy disposable junk.RonP
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