New Member with questions.... July 12, 2003, 04:52:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 24407Hello everyone. I'm looking to buy my first RV. I started to write to explain everything about me and what my needs are. But will hold off boring you all. Lets just say I'm considering a 26.5 foot island bed....Fully equipped, almost all the extras including solar panels. I've looked at the LD website. The listed statistics on the coach look impressively high quality. I really have a couple questions based on your experience with your coaches.How well does your coach hold up in extreme weather? This is while parked, self contained. Need to know both heat and cold. Hot weather 100+ degrees. And cold weather single digits....take a storm that will bring temps down to 50 below wind chill if I have to.Do you find self contained working well with LD? Are the tanks big enough? Capacity of the converter enough?The Onan Gen listed claims to be quiet. Is it?What kind of gas mileage you getting on the gas engine?I am considering the diesel engine. I see here that the jury is still out on it. It would also require a different generator that is propane. I wonder how the propane gen compares to the gas gen?Do you find the storage capacity, enough?Thank You RonP
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #1 – July 12, 2003, 11:38:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 24416"I am considering the diesel engine. I see here that the jury is still out on it." Actually, no. The jury is in. If you read all the archived messages on that topic, you'll find a strong consensus that unless you plan on driving more than 30,000-50,000 miles a year, there is no benefit (and considerable drawbacks) to the diesel option in a Lazy Daze. Even fans of the diesel admit that it will take 100,000-150,000 miles to break even on fuel--if indeed you ever do. Meanwhile, you will be living with an initial cost that's thousands of dollars higher, a much noisier engine (remember, it's right on the cab with you!), reduced payload (hundreds of pounds less), higher maintenance costs, and that diesel smell...plus, as you mentioned, the necessity for a special propane- powered generator, which from the reports I've seen appears to be less satisfactory than a gasoline-powered one. You certainly don't need a diesel to pull a toad (to answer Linda's question). Plenty of LDers are towing heavier vehicles than the RAV4 with the powerful and efficient V10 gasoline engine, and they don't have any problems. In short, for the vast majority of LD owners, a diesel's drawbacks tremendously outweigh its advantages. Ask the Lazy Daze factory--they'll tell you pretty much exactly what I've just said.Andy Baird :-)
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #2 – July 12, 2003, 12:51:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24417I purchased my 2000 26.5 RB Diesel back in march. I am currently 6000 miles and a little over a month into a trip around the country. I am extremely happy with the Lazy Daze and with the diesel.Since I purchase my LD used, I don't think I paid any more than I would have for a gas version, so the question of $$ does not really matter to me. The initial owner probably would think differently, but not me.There is not significant noise from the engine. The engine runs at fairly low RPMs even when cruising at 65-70MPH and climbing mountains. I do not notice much engine noise at all. I don't think the gas engine would be much quieter. The gas engine needs to run at much higher RPMs which you could argue would make it noisier than the diesel. The diesel is louder when idling. As far as smell, I have not noticed any. I do keep my windows closed when starting the engine. I also wear gloves when re-fueling to keep from getting diesel on my hands.Even with a full load of equipment and clothes for my wife and me, for a 3 month trip, I am still under the LDs weight limit. I am not sure what other people are packing, but I don't think the extra pounds for the diesel really matters unless you are hauling cement. Maybe we just travel light.I don't mind the propane generator. It seems to run for many hours on a tank of propane. The only thing I don't like is that the electronic gauge is not very accurate. I am not sure how long it will run on one tank since it has only taken at most 8 gallons when I have re-filled it (even though the gauge showed red). It ran over 15 hours on eight gallons. I did not keep good track of that. I usually only run the generator to keep the AC running for the dog during stops. I know this is not a recommended thing to do, but I have not had any problems yet (and hope I won't). I keep reading things about the "drawbacks" of the diesel, but I have not really noticed any myself. On the plus side, I have found diesel to be much cheaper than gas in most areas of the country. Right now I am on Long Island in NY and that is not true. Here diesel is more expensive than super unleaded, but this is the first place I have found that. For a good part of my trip, I have found diesel for around $1.29 to $1.49 a gallon. It is usually priced about the same as the cheapest unleaded gas.I have been averaging about 10.5 MPG. The previous owner said that he had averaged about 13 MPG, but he must have driven much slower than I do. I do notice a big difference in mileage between 55 MPH and 70 MPH. I usually averaged about 65 MPH. I did have a couple of tank fulls where I averaged close to 13 MPG but I was driving aound 55 MPH for those tanks. I think that like everything else, the choice between diesel and gas engines has a lot of personal preference involved. I wanted to purchase a diesel because in my mind it is the better engine for "trucks" and "tow vehicles".I am sure that a good case can be made for why a gas engine is a better choice. The diesel is definetly more expensive to purchase new. The original owner of my rig had close to $3000 of engine and transmission modifications done. Even though the specs on stock gas and diesel engines are close, just adding a "power chip" to the diesel significantly increases the torque. I really love the exhaust brake, which is something you can't get on a gas rig.I guess the real answer is, if you want a diesel get one. If you want a V10 get one. You could argue forever over which one is the better choice, so just go with what you want.Charlie G.
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #3 – July 12, 2003, 01:11:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24420"I really love the exhaust brake, which is something you can't get on a gas rig.:" Not to argue with the rest of Charlie's message, but one point needs clarification: a gasoline engine doesn't need an exhaust brake--it has compresson braking built in. With a diesel you have to pay extra to get it. ;-) Lest I sound too "down on diesels," it's worth noting that like Charlie, the few people who've bought diesel Lazy Dazes are satisfied with them. On the other hand, the vast majority of people who compared them to gasoline Lazy Dazes bought the gas version.Andy Baird :-)
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #4 – July 15, 2003, 09:42:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24560Just a reminder, if you have an older Ford LD and stay
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #5 – July 15, 2003, 11:46:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24568Skywalker wrote, "Just a reminder, if you have an older Ford LD and stay in the hot weather too long, there is a famous "Ford Fuel Pump overheat" problem."I assume you are refering to the "in tank" pump that can give all the symptoms of a vapor lock. Our 89 LD put us through that problem, and I do not agree that it is a hot weather problem. The pump runs submerged in fuel, so outside temperatures will have minimal effect. Generally, the problem occurs during a hill climb, the engine loses power and usually sputters and quits. As explained to me by a Ford tech rep, the failing pump gets warm and slows its' pumping action which cuts down on the fuel delivered to the fuel injection pump. The engine slowly starves. After a 30 to 60 minute cooling period everything goes back to normal. The only good fix is to replace the pump with the latest Ford pump. A rebuilt is not a good cheaper alternative. Also, Ford says the in-line fuel filter will last the life of the engine, I change mine every 25K. With the fuel and cooling systems in good working order, the older 460cid V8s will run just fine in high temperatures. Not to worry.Tom.
New Member with questions.... Reply #6 – July 12, 2003, 12:58:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24418A gas engine does not need an exhaust brake since compression takes care of the braking. Not so with a diesel engine.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #7 – July 12, 2003, 04:25:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24425QuoteA gas engine does not need an exhaust brake since compression takes care ofQuotethe braking. Not so with a diesel engine. I hate to start arguing already. Both this and the next post with the same knowledge on compression. I really hate to tell you guys this...But.... A diesel engine has over twice the compression of a gas engine. You could argue about after the spark plug fires...but remember...the piston is already at the top when that happens..then the compression helps push the piston down.I am interested in the diesel, partly for the exhaust brake. This involves the transmission working with it. Seems like a real nice feature. I confess that I like toys and gizmos. I may very well be better off with the V10 gas engine. Simpler RV, overall. I know I would match up my old 460 against any of the old diesels. I'm glad people like what they have. I don't have to worry about not having a choice.RonP
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #8 – July 12, 2003, 05:10:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24426I like gas and diesel engines, so can speak on both. A diesel engine has higher compression than gas engines - that is true. But, a diesel does not have engine braking compression without a exhaust brake. A little yahoo search on diesel engines will prove the fact.A gas engine offers compression braking without a exhaust brake, a diesel must have an exhaust brake, or trans brake, or driveline brake as compression braking is virtually non-existant. There is no intake restriction on a diesel (no throttle body plate etc). A diesel always has unrestricted intake, just adds fuel or takes it away. It is the intake restriction that gives the gas engine compression braking.Dan
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... (diese Reply #9 – July 12, 2003, 05:17:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24427Regards diesel compression braking, aood explanation and easy to read explanation is at the link. http://www.truckpartseast.com/exhaust.php
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #10 – July 12, 2003, 07:55:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24431Quotea diesel does not have engine braking compression without a exhaust brake. So, in other words. All those truckers out there Jake Braking, are just making a bunch of noise?Ron
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] RE clipped- (diesel brakes part two) Reply #11 – July 12, 2003, 10:05:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24434Perhaps I mis-spoke/mis-typed, though I thought I cleared it up later
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] RE clipped- (diesel brakes part t Reply #12 – July 13, 2003, 01:27:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24438I apologize, Dan. I allowed myself to become a little argumentative. I shouldn't have. Didn't read all of everything.I do want to ask about braking on sever vehicles I've drove. I've owned a little datsun diesel pickup. Also drove a Rabbit Diesel, a F350 or 450 diesel pickup at work, a steakbed large diesel truck also at work. All of these did an excellent job of engine braking. They were also, all, standard transmissions.I always thought, when I saw a big truck jake braking. I could see the exhaust shoot out, then slow down. Sure looked like normal engine braking to me?....Doh!I was also thinking a diesel with an automatic transmission just doesn't react well in braking. I don't think automatic's in general are as good for using an engine to brake as standard transmissions are.As far as the basic discussion on diesels. I found if I drove my toyota gas as slow as I had to drive my datsun diesel; I got just as good of mileage. I also thought the diesel pickup I drove at work was a real dog...but It was also empty.RonP
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #13 – July 15, 2003, 04:44:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24532Quote The 23.5's look like they can be awfully handy. Awfully easy to get around. Nice to drive. Perfect for much of what I intend to use an RV for...locally. My only concern with them is they might be a little lacking for longer term usage? Or do people find them still handy for longer. What I mean by locally is one day to a week. Longer term I consider over a week to a couple months. My wife and I (and for short times a third or fourth person) spend 3 months at a time in our 23.5' T/K. We travel form very hot country (Texas) to cool country (B.C., Canada) with the clothes and other gear we need for both. We take two kayaks or a canoe on top. (This year we are planning to take two folding kayaks in the shower and a canoe on top.) We don't find that we are too crowded at all. I should mention that it is essential to keep everything in its place or the space does seem too small! But if you have everything organized there is plenty of room. (Obviously, we use the cab-over bed when we travel with guests.)Allen
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #14 – July 23, 2003, 11:18:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24923Charlie: If I had my choice I would go diesel. The engine life is longer and I have owned a diesel car (Peugeot) and found it to be superb! Mari Susancharlie_g_1 wrote:
New Member with questions.... Reply #15 – July 13, 2003, 11:55:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24452Quote. Lets just say I'm considering a 26.5 foot island bed....Fully equipped, almost all the extras including solar panels. I strongly encourage you to go to the factory or somewhere else to compare the different models. Many people start out thinking they want the IB, but when they see how much space is lost, switch to one of the other models... usually the MB.QuoteHow well does your coach hold up in extreme weather? This is while parked, self contained. Need to know both heat and cold. Hot weather 100+ degrees. And cold weather single digits....take a storm that will bring temps down to 50 below wind chill if I have to. Without shore power you might find it extremely uncomfortable in very hot weather unless you are running your generator & A/C. Even then it will be hot unless you keep the door closed. (Insulating the windows and vents also helps.) While I have never camped in one digit temps, the furnace is quite effective. Again, insulating the vents and possibly the windows would help. There have been several posts on making your LD more temperature robust.QuoteDo you find self contained working well with LD? Are the tanks big enough? Capacity of the converter enough? My wife and I are not full-timers, but we travel about six months out of the year. We often boondock, but we try to find a state park, federal park (Corpse of Engineers, U S Forrest Service, Bureaugh of Land management) or even private camp ground when it is extremely hot. We have never had a problem keeping our house batteries charged.QuoteThe Onan Gen listed claims to be quiet. Is it? Well, quiet is a relative term. If you are camping in a wilderness area, any unnatural sound is offensive. That said, the generator is relatively quiet inside the unit. I t is louder outside. We have found that we don't use it much unless it is extremely hot.QuoteWhat kind of gas mileage you getting on the gas engine? That depends on how you drive more than anything else. At about 60 - 65 mph we get about 10 to 11 mpg. At 70 - 75 we get 8 to 9 mpg. (We get our best mileage in the mountains... figure!QuoteI am considering the diesel engine. I see here that the jury is still out on it. It would also require a different generator that is propane. I wonder how the propane gen compares to the gas gen? Don't know about propane generator.QuoteDo you find the storage capacity, enough? We have a 23.5' Twin/King, and we have plenty of room for extended trips, but we use to eravel in a cab-over on a Toyota truck. I guess our space requirements are rather limited.Allen
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] New Member with questions.... Reply #16 – July 14, 2003, 02:33:22 am Yahoo Message Number: 24460Thank you very much for replying, Allen. I'm a little confused on insulating the windows. The website says it has thermal pane windows...then it describes them as definitely dual pane. Is this something new? Or do these windows still need insulating for extreme weather.I appreciate the advice on seeing for myself before ordering. I haven't even ruled out the 23.5. One thing I look for is a decent shower. LD's shower next to the toilet would have to be a different special setup for me to like it. I like having the toilet in a room of it's own. Like to just go in with bleach/water and swab everything down. Control those bio germs in just the one room. If I were to get the IB. I would add to one side of the bed. The reason is, my ever loving sweetheart sprawls out all over the bed. I need a big one so I have a little room. I've considered the twin dinette in the back. Well....I could go on and on...lets just say I'm considering, thinking, and know I really need to see for myself. Oh...and BTW: My ever lovin sweetheart is also my bird dog. ...VBGRonP
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] New Member with questions.... Reply #17 – July 14, 2003, 07:13:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24490QuoteI'm a little confused on insulating the windows. Starting with 2003 models LD uses true dual pane windows with an air gap between the outside and inside panes. This should greatly improve insulation. Prior to that they used dual pane "sandwich" windows, where the outside and inside panes were simple glued together. I believe those with 2003 models have reported much reduced interior condensation and better heat retention/exclusion. The aluminum frames are probably still poorly insulated though, so there is probably some condensation and heat loss from them.QuoteI haven't even ruled out the 23.5. One thing I look for is a decent shower. LD's shower next to the toilet would have to be a different special setup for me to like it. Check out the 23.5' Front Lounge or Front Dinette. They have a separate, reasonably roomy rear bath in which the shower, sink and toilet are separated from each other. My recollection is that the shower is a decent size. The kitchen is located ahead of that. Between the kitchen and cab is a lounge area with one sofa on the passenger side and either pair of barrel chairs with table or a dinette on the driver's side. And then, of course, the cabover bed.TerryPalo Alto, CA
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] New Member with questions.... Reply #18 – July 14, 2003, 11:46:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 24505QuoteI'm a little confused on insulating the windows. The website says it has thermal pane windows...then it describes them as definitely dual pane. Is this something new? Or do these windows still need insulating for extreme weather. Insulation of windows on the 2003 and later models should be much less of a problem. In the older rigs the windows ate up a lot of heat. The factory has some insulation for the top vents that might make a difference. I try to avoid camping in extreme weather... well, extremely cold weather. I do RV in Texas summers... until I can get away.QuoteI appreciate the advice on seeing for myself before ordering. I haven't even ruled out the 23.5. One thing I look for is a decent shower. LD's shower next to the toilet would have to be a different special setup for me to like it. I like having the toilet in a room of it's own. Like to just go in with bleach/water and swab everything down. Control those bio germs in just the one room. I usually shower in the campgroud showers... with my shower shoes on. I have had no problems so far. (A can of spray Lysol also comes in handy.)Quote If I were to get the IB. I would add to one side of the bed. The reason is, my ever loving sweetheart sprawls out all over the bed. I need a big one so I have a little room. I've considered the twin dinette in the back. You might enjoy either the Mid Bath or the Twin/King; they both have an over-sized King bed in the back when set-up that way.QuoteWell....I could go on and on...lets just say I'm considering, thinking, and know I really need to see for myself. Good luck on whatever you decide to get. I hope it meets your needs and provides you years of happy travel.Allen
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #19 – July 15, 2003, 01:54:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 24515> Check out the 23.5' Front Lounge or Front Dinette. > TerryQuotePalo Alto, CA I'm wondering how the angle is in one of these to the TV in the overhead. I do plan on getting the entertainment/TV package in the overhead. Have no intention of using that for a bed.The 23.5's look like they can be awfully handy. Awfully easy to get around. Nice to drive. Perfect for much of what I intend to use an RV for...locally. My only concern with them is they might be a little lacking for longer term usage? Or do people find them still handy for longer. What I mean by locally is one day to a week. Longer term I consider over a week to a couple months.I wonder if people find the 26.5 only a wee bit more concentration in driving. I wonder if people find the 26.5 well worth the extra room?RonP
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #20 – July 15, 2003, 09:29:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 24518"My only concern with them is they might be a little lacking for longer term usage? Or do people find them still handy for longer. What I mean by locally is one day to a week. Longer term I consider over a week to a couple months." I personally know two singles and two couples who have spent up to six months at a stretch in a 22' or 23.5' LDs, and I'm sure there are more on this list. For couples, of course, a lot depends on your ability to get along in close quarters...but as far as practical matters are concerned, trips of a couple of months are eminently feasible. And yes, the 23.5' LD can go virtually anywhere. Not that I'd try to talk you out of a 26.5 if that's what you really want...but from your description of your planned uses, the 23.5 will suit you just fine.Andy Baird :-)
Re: New Member with questions.... Reply #21 – July 15, 2003, 09:50:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 24519QuoteI'm wondering how the angle is in one of these to the TV in the overhead. I do plan on getting the entertainment/TV package in the overhead. Have no intention of using that for a bed.The 23.5's look like they can be awfully handy As far as I know, none of the smaller models have the entertainment center available. Personally, I have yet to see ANY model m'home where I am comfortable watching an overhead TV. If you are not intending to use the overhead bunk, I would also rule out the 23.5' front lounge model. Even the 26.5' rear bath is not a good choice if you don't use the bunk.Steve
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