fuel pump shut-off switch March 14, 2023, 02:45:56 pm While attempting to bring my 2000 MB out of storage for the first camping trip of 2023, we have some difficultly getting it started.Battery was taken out, charged and tested at Interstate battery and installed back into engine bay. Battery connections and High current fuses checked out okay (4-13) , have not checked relays (F and G).I do have an aftermarket security system that automatically locks the doors when you put the key into the fourth position to start it. This system was installed prior to my ownership and has always concerned me that it is draining the battery while in storage. It also locks the steering wheel into place and you have to use the key fob to unlock the doors and then the steering wheel is moveable. I had the doors unlocked in storage.The reason security system into this discussion, I am wondering if the fuel pump shut off switch was triggered somehow into the off position. The starter engages now, but it seems to be fuel deficient. I was not able to determine a slow or normal crank from the starter.Is the fuel pump shut off switch manual or is there a way it can be triggered to the off position?Had some difficultly locating it as I twisted my body to peer under the dash housing. Thought it was located directly over the brake pedal. Does anyone have a picture of its location?I know the fuel pump and banks system are all possibilities. Trying to avoid the tow fee and get to my mechanic. It is in an enclosed storage unit and I have time to figure this out, just missing my camping trip at the half way to winfield bluegrass gathering. No longer brave enough to tent camp with 10 degree nights.Hello from Kansas fellow LDer's, Thanks in advance, KimberleyI do disconnect the house batteries while in storage as well.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #1 – March 14, 2023, 02:54:42 pm My 2004 30' has the fuel cutoff mounted on passenger side interior firewall, look behind paneling. 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #2 – March 14, 2023, 04:29:55 pm Is it black with a small red button with a bundle of wires?Will try to send a picture.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #3 – March 14, 2023, 08:47:21 pm Hi Kim, it is black with a red button. Mine is on the side wall where your right toe would hit if you were sitting in the seat. If tripped, pushing the red button should reset it. However a security system might also turn off the fuel pump, so there may be additional wiring. If you try to start it with the fuel pump disabled, even after it is back on it may take a few attempts to get the fuel rail pressurized, and a sucessfully running engine. I know of one person who would hit that area with his fist as an impromptu security device, and reset it when he wanted to drive it. Sitting in storage, check that you have fuel also.RonB 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #4 – March 14, 2023, 09:25:13 pm Here are a few photos of it on mine (09). The text on the passenger side side panel indicates where it is. jor 4 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #5 – March 15, 2023, 09:06:58 am I think we located it last night.It appeared to not be depressed, so we did not touch it.Honestly it is such a tight space it was hard to tell. It would be flush and obvious to the eye if it was engaged, correct?Would there be any harm to engage (depress) and then press it again if needed to release it?Traced some of the security system wiring somewhat successfully. Again on the drivers side very tight space. I have a 2000 MB unit and keep thinking those few inches added after 2003 would of been appreciated.Was looking at the fuse box under the dash to see if I could locate a reset wire with a button for the alarm system. The only one I have found was to turn the horn off if the alarm is going off.Always learn a lot when thing go side ways, I will report what I find finally resolves this issue.On the key fob the security system is Avital, searching for an owners manual online,Full tank of gas, Thanks for your assistance, KimberleyNote: With this alarm system I learned there is a "garage mode" that can occur which prevents the vehicle from being started.After installing the battery and turning the key from 4th to 5th position to start the locks go up and down twice.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #6 – March 15, 2023, 05:22:27 pm Hi Kim. The impact switch is to shut off the fuel pump in case of an accident. It is a weighted ball, held in place by a spring. By all means, press down on the button. That puts the ball back where it belongs and allows the fuel pump to operate normally. It is on the passenger side of the passenger foot well and has a marker on the vinyl.There are many Youtube videos of it. Almost all Fords and I'm sure other brands have it. It is not specific to motorhomes. It is not after market. RonB
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #7 – March 16, 2023, 08:56:01 am Thanks Steve, Ron and Jor for your guidance. I am still trouble shooting spark vs. fuel. Regarding the fuel pump shut-off switch. My husband said it (button) felt depressed or flush.Called the alarm system company and since the starter is engaging, after we installed a fully charged battery, (alarm connected at the Solenoid) that is a no go. Without a model number of the alarm system, it was difficult to get any additional trouble shooting guidance. Model number is in tiny print on the "plug" under the dash which faces upward. Not visible without pulling wires and not much slack on these wires, still looking for the "reset" button for future knowledge. Now looking for the right vice grips to take out relay "K" to get it tested at my mechanics shop. Fuse "17" checked out okay with the voltage meter.Both related to fuel pump for 2000 E450.I suppose I have been focusing on the electrical system primarily due to the battery drain, charged and installed.With my 1960 chevy it was easier to "see" if fuel was the problem. Thankful I am not on the road and it is safely in storage. Getting cost estimate for the fuel pump. Have a quote for a tow.Will report findings in hopes it helps someone needing to trouble shoot on their own. Kimberley
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #8 – March 16, 2023, 11:40:04 pm Hi Kim; to check a relay, in the power distribution box under the hood, there are at least a few of identical relays. You can swap two, and see if the problem moves to the other circuit that you poached a relay from. Saves a lot of time. Ford part numbers are reliable.( maybe a bit dirty in a 2000). RonB 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #9 – March 18, 2023, 10:00:58 pm Hi Kim.So I have a friend whose 2001 MB wouldn't start, but did turn over. He had it towed in, and it turned out to be the crank angle (position) sensor. The computer won't fire spark plugs if it doesn't know which one or when to fire. The sensor is about $13 from Rock Auto. Probably just a coil at that low price. His part did go bad during storage. Might be worth a try. RonB
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #10 – April 04, 2023, 10:12:51 am Good morning, I ended up having the LD towed to the mechanic from the storage facility. ( batwing went wild, different discussion)They decided it was the fuel pump. I thought, okay, needed to be replaced and it would be a matter of time and this was convenient being that I am not on the road. I called this morning, and in the process of dropping the fuel tank a part of the towing vacuum line that hooks or meets up with the "pin" for towing was injured and they were in the process of repairing it. So I know I am changing the topic discussion. Does anyone know what this part is called? I looked in the maintenance manual under towing and did not see anything. The mechanic's impression is that it is a safety feature and when the tow vehicle breaks away and the plug is pulled this line somehow affects the braking system. He said that there is no brake fluid in the line. Is this another after market device that was installed after it left the factory or is this something all 2000 LD's have?I told him I would ask the "table of knowledge" to get at least a sense of how this part is referred too and any additional information I need to understand how it works. I did purchase a 2012 4x4 Jeep Liberty last year, have not decided if I want to tow a vehicle. Thank you for your time, KimberleyThanks Ron, I will mention the information about the elbow sensor to my mechanicps.He will be emailing me some pictures at some point.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #11 – April 04, 2023, 10:23:38 am Ron, Since I do not have a shop manual yet, can you tell me the location of the crank angle sensor? Would like to know for future reference. I am not a mechanic but always willing to trouble shoot. Thanks, Kimberley
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #12 – April 04, 2023, 01:00:38 pm Hi Kimberly; Not sure what an 'elbow' sensor is? The Crankshaft connected to the pistons is what drives the pulley at the front that drives the serpentine belt. The Crankshaft angle position sensor tells the 'ECM' engine control module where the crankshaft is in it's rotation. This sets up the timing of the engine in regards to which sparkplug to fire and when. I found this you tube video. Not quite your year of engine, but it has to be pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFcG8105u-0 Just two bolts and a connector for two wires. Looks pretty easy compared to some other items. As far as a vacuum line? If it connects to a pin in the towing connector it has to be a wire. The pin the mechanic is talking about has nothing to do with vacuum. If the towed vehicle breaks away, it pulls a pin out and turns on the brakes of the towed car to stop it. Or trailer which has electric brakes. None of this does anything to the motorhome. Lazy Daze only provides the running lights and the left and right brake/turn signals information. Various adaptor modules can be added by the owner to decode a general 'Brake' signal. A previous owner may have run a separate 'Brake' wire to the rear towing connector. On only one occasion I've seen an actual brake fluid line with isolator, running to the rear bumper (added by the owner) to apply braking force to a towed vehicle's brakes. Upon break away, maybe there was some provision to apply the brakes on the towed. Maybe not. RonB
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #13 – April 04, 2023, 01:25:07 pm Quote from: kvc - April 04, 2023, 10:12:51 amI called this morning, and in the process of dropping the fuel tank a part of the towing vacuum line that hooks or meets up with the "pin" for towing was injured and they were in the process of repairing it. So I know I am changing the topic of discussion. Does anyone know what this part is called? I looked in the maintenance manual under towing and did not see anything. The mechanic's impression is that it is a safety feature and when the tow vehicle breaks away and the plug is pulled this line somehow affects the braking system. He said that there is no brake fluid in the line. Is this another after-market device that was installed after it left the factory or is this something all 2000 LDs have?.I'm puzzled about what 'tow braking ' part was damaged. I have never seen a vacuum or airline as part of a toad braking system except on diesel pushers with air brakes. Any information about this would be appreciated, it certainly isn't a Factory part.Many years ago there were toad brake systems that connected the toad hydraulic brakes to the tow vehicle hydraulic brakes, a very unsafe and obsolete system, something to be removed and discarded if present.Security systems have caused too many no-start problems, some cut off the ignition others shut off the fuel pump.Without the wiring schematic or manual, it can be difficult to determine how the system works. In past experiences with security systems, it has taken a good amount of time to trace the wires and methods before removing the system for good.The Banks computer box is known for having issues in the early 2000 E450s, the computer box can fail and prevent the engine from starting, finding out how to remove it would be a good thing to learn.The crank angle (position) sensor (CPS) is located on the engine block under the A/C compressor, it's a real PIA to access and replace, luckily, it is a very durable sensor, and I have never seen one go bad.A Jeep Liberty makes an OK toad, heavy for its limited off-road performance but it is flat-towable.Larry 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #14 – April 04, 2023, 04:36:36 pm "........ in the process of dropping the fuel tank a part of the towing vacuum line......"What on earth would these two have in common? Are they co-located?As if I knew what a towing vacuum line actually is!!!
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #15 – April 04, 2023, 08:43:23 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 04, 2023, 04:36:36 pmAs if I knew what a towing vacuum line actually is!!! Just a guess but it may be part of a toad braking system, similar to what I installed on my 2000 class-a. A vacuum line was run from the motorhome engine to the rear bumper and connected to the toad with a coiled hose and quick connect fittings. The vacuum enabled the power assist for the toad brakes and a vacuum controlled actuator pulled down on the toads brake peddle when the brake lights came on. Proportionality was based on a swinging pendulum in the toad. The faster you slowed down, the harder the toad brakes were applied. It was quite novel for its time and worked surprising well, although the company is no longer in business. Anyway, that's my guess as to why there would be a "towing vacuum line" near the rear bumper.- John 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #16 – April 04, 2023, 11:02:46 pm I have used the Stay-in-Play aux brake control system on two of my Honda toads and my daughter, LazyBones 2, also uses that system on her Honda. However the vacuum line comes directly from the toad's own engine, not from the LD.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #17 – April 04, 2023, 11:34:30 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 04, 2023, 11:02:46 pmI have used the Stay-in-Play aux brake control system on two of my Honda toads and my daughter, LazyBones 2, also uses that system on her Honda. However the vacuum line comes directly from the toad's own engine, not from the LD. Steve S,I also use a Stay-n-Play in my LD and it works great. The Stay-n-Play unit mounted under the toads hood contains both a vacuum pump to enable the power brake assist and an air pump to push down on the brake peddle. But of coarse you already knew that - John
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #18 – April 05, 2023, 12:50:55 am Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 04, 2023, 11:02:46 pmI have used the Stay-in-Play aux brake control system on two of my Honda toads and my daughter, LazyBones 2, also uses that system on her Honda. However, the vacuum line comes directly from the toad's own engine, not from the LD. When your Honda's engine is running, the engine provides vacuum to the booster. While being towed, the engine isn't producing vacuum. The Demco pump provides vacuum for the brake booster while being towed.Demco/SMI's toad brake box contains a combination air compressor/vacuum pump and is mounted inside the toad. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-7fff5/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12254/20154/9599006_Stay-in-play-duo_demco_web__16098.1525116614.png?c=2The pump provides a limited amount of vacuum (4-6 inches-H2O) to the toad's brake booster. The air compressor's supply of compressed air operates the pneumatic cylinder that is mounted on the brake pedal. Very old SMI brake units operate on vacuum only, with the brake pedal cylinder being vacuum operated.Larry
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #19 – April 05, 2023, 12:53:34 pm "While being towed, the engine isn't producing vacuum."Thanks for that additional information, Larry! I never got that far into the weeds.So that accounts for the rumbling chatter that's heard when, during hookup, you pull the 'break-away plug'! But my SMI systems always worked so good I didn't bother to get into the details.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #20 – April 05, 2023, 01:33:56 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 05, 2023, 12:53:34 pm"While being towed, the engine isn't producing vacuum."Thanks for that additional information, Larry! I never got that far into the weeds.So that accounts for the rumbling chatter that's heard when, during hookup, you pull the 'break-away plug'! But my SMI systems always worked so good I didn't bother to get into the details. Besides a broken cable on the brake pedal cylinder, our 20-year-old SMI has been trouble-free.The broken cable was repairable. I have had more problems with the umbilical cords, plugs, and hoses.Larry 1 Likes
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #21 – April 05, 2023, 08:09:33 pm This is the photo that was sent to me by the mechanic.
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #22 – April 06, 2023, 03:36:02 am Hi Kimberly; My 23 year old rig, just one year older than yours; I've had since new and has nothing like in your photo. So I'm sure that it was added aftermarket. Like Larry said it might have provided vacuum to the towed vehicle, so that it's power brake system wouldn't need as much force on the brake pedal to operate the brakes. RonB
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #23 – April 06, 2023, 11:08:42 am After being under dozens of LDs over 28 years and installing many brake systems, I have never seen anything like what is shown in the photo.If it is a device that supplies vacuum to the toad's brake, the tubing should be traced back to the engine and permanently disconnected and capped off.Larry
Re: fuel pump shut-off switch Reply #24 – April 10, 2023, 10:21:33 am I will be going back to have it removed. Thank you Larry and Ron for confirming that it was an aftermarket add on. Appreciate your insight, Kimberley
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