5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? December 08, 2022, 02:43:54 am Anybody have any thoughts on using 3M 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1 to seal new solar panel brackets and wiring penetrations?
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #1 – December 08, 2022, 04:10:25 pm The Chemlink M1 is new to me. It uses a different chemistry than the 5200 FC, its applications sheet shows it being used for a wide variety of exterior sealing projects. It might be a suitable replacement.If you use it, get back to us in 5 or 6 years with a report on how it is holding up.Larry
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #2 – December 08, 2022, 04:51:13 pm I dug into the Chemlink M1's product description sheet and MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) to take a look of what kind of chemistry this adhesive uses to achieve moisture cure. To my surprise it is based on silicone chemistry. Therefore be extra careful using it for any RV roof application unless you can isolate it in a specific, well contained area. Using this adhesive will prevent any future application to achieve good adhesion to your roof substrate material.Chemical name CAS number Percentage % (wt/wt)Aminoethyl aminopropyl trimethoxy silane 1760-24-3 0.5-3Vinyltrimethoxysilane 2768-02-7 0.5-2Dibutyltin oxide 818-08-6 0.25- 0.75I would use the tried and true 3M 5200 for your solar panel application. 2 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #3 – December 08, 2022, 05:55:35 pm Quote from: cli288 - December 08, 2022, 04:51:13 pmI dug into the Chemlink M1's product description sheet and MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) to take a look of what kind of chemistry this adhesive uses to achieve moisture cure. To my surprise, it is based on silicone chemistry.I would use the tried and true 3M 5200 for your solar panel application.A silicone-based sealant? That's an automatic deal breaker.Stick with 5200 FC or another polyurethane sealant.Larry 1 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #4 – December 08, 2022, 10:52:03 pm What indicates silicone? I see it categorized as polyether. It is paintable.
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #5 – December 09, 2022, 04:31:43 am Hi all; I can barely buy 3M Fast Cure 5200. Only small tubes and mailed in from a company in another state to me here. Twice the price. That company may be unaware of fines paid by Amazon, and 'IIRC' Lowes for selling it here in southern California. AQMD. The M1 SDS lists the chemicals as: Aminoethyl aminopropyl trimethoxy silane, Vinyltrimethoxysilane , Dibutyltin oxide and methanol. Silane is silicon (think semiconductor IC chips) and hydrogen. Silicone with the 'e' is only slightly related to the metal silicon. I think the Vinyl tri meth oxy silane would indicate this sealant to be closer to a vinyl product. Most notably it isn't good around eyes and skin until after it cures. Here is a link to the MSDS: https://chemlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/M1-SDS-2020.pdf RonB
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #6 – December 09, 2022, 11:28:09 am They both contain Silicon, but Silicone is different, right? Which cheminal in M-1 is actually Silicone?
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #7 – December 09, 2022, 12:51:14 pm "I can barely buy 3M Fast Cure 5200. Only small tubes and mailed in from a company in another state to me here. Twice the price."Ron, I posted this link a couple times before; you might check it out. I don't know if 5200 is still available to ship to CA residents from the Santa Cruz, CA, store, but I ordered the product right before I sold my TK and had no problems with their shipping me the order.5200 Fast Cure Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant, White | West Marine
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #8 – December 09, 2022, 01:15:36 pm Hi Keith; Metals have free electrons and are good conductors. Other elements have less mobile electrons and are more insulators. Silicon is in between, and makes a good semiconductor. By treating it with other chemicals, usually Arsenic, or Phosphorus, it can become either. That is what makes transistors/diodes work. So it is a metalloid. The siloxane is one of the chemicals also in common silicone sealants. RTV is a room temperature vulcanizing silicone that will 'cure' when exposed to air. The problems with using silicone as a sealant, is that nothing will stick to it after it cures. And it is really difficult to remove. It has to be completely removed for anything to 'stick' to that surface again. The preferred 3M 5200 cures, but can be added to later. Hard to remove, but can accept 'top coating' to repair seams, and damaged areas. This seems like a pretty good discussion: Silicone Adhesive: What Is It? How Does It Work? Types Of RonB 2 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #9 – December 09, 2022, 03:24:14 pm "That's an automatic deal breaker."I'm with Larry. I'm no chemist, but when I see "mumblejumblegarblesilane," I ain't buying. 1 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #10 – December 09, 2022, 05:03:07 pm Hi Andy; Well the SDS of 3m 5200 ingredients excerpt: 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 5200, White; PN 06520 , 05220, 06534, 06535__________________________________________________________________________________________Page: 3 of 162-(2-Ethoxyethoxy)ethyl acetate 112-15-2 < 2.0Silicon dioxide 7631-86-9 0.5 - 1.5Heptane 142-82-5 < 0.3(Gamma-mercaptopropyl)trimethoxysilane 4420-74-0 < 0.2 There is that Tri meth oxy silane again! Seems to be every where. I'll stick to 3M brand stuff (how's that for a pun!). SDS link: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l9N1482958_SPv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS-- RonB
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #11 – December 09, 2022, 06:07:49 pm Quote from: Keith Sweitzer - December 08, 2022, 10:52:03 pmWhat indicates silicone? I see it categorized as polyether. It is paintable. Both trimethylsiloxane and trimethoxy silane are key active components of silicone sealant.
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #12 – December 09, 2022, 06:23:37 pm Quote from: RonB - December 09, 2022, 05:03:07 pmHi Andy; Well the SDS of 3m 5200 ingredients excerpt: 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 5200, White; PN 06520 , 05220, 06534, 06535__________________________________________________________________________________________Page: 3 of 162-(2-Ethoxyethoxy)ethyl acetate 112-15-2 < 2.0Silicon dioxide 7631-86-9 0.5 - 1.5Heptane 142-82-5 < 0.3(Gamma-mercaptopropyl)trimethoxysilane 4420-74-0 < 0.2 There is that Tri meth oxy silane again! Seems to be every where. I'll stick to 3M brand stuff (how's that for a pun!). SDS link: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l9N1482958_SPv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS-- RonBSilane is a coupling agent to improve any adhesive/sealant adhesion to substrate. Siloxane is the chemical backbone responsible for the silicone sealant to "moisture cure". silicon dioxide is an inorganic component serve as a filler in the adhesive/sealant. It is chemically inert.
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #13 – December 09, 2022, 06:48:55 pm Silicon dioxide is also known as quartz. It serves as a filler and is chemically inactive. It should not be confused with organic silicone species like dimethyl or trimethylsiloxane in those silicone sealers.
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #14 – December 09, 2022, 07:14:19 pm Quote from: cli288 - December 09, 2022, 06:48:55 pmSilicon dioxide is also known as quartz.Or, usually, sand.Steve 1 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #15 – December 10, 2022, 03:06:07 am “ Both trimethylsiloxane and trimethoxy silane are key active components of silicone sealant.”These are also components of 3M 5200 FC, too. So their presence does not necessarily mean that silicone is in M-1. Only that they are a precursor ingredients that both have in common.Here is what I understand so far:1. The LD community (RV rooftop focused) uses 5200 FC.2. The commercial solar industry (building rooftop focused) uses Chemlink M-1.3. California (environmentally focused) restricts the sale of 5200 FC, making it harder to acquire.4. All agree that silicone products are not paintable. I have not seen convincing evidence that M-1 is a silicone product.5. All agree that 5200 is difficult to remove without damage.6. I consider cost difference as not important in the critical RV rooftop application of interest. 4 Likes
Re: 5200 FC versus Chemlink M1? Reply #16 – December 10, 2022, 12:10:26 pm Good points, Keith. I'm fortunate in that I can order 5200 from Amazon and have it sent to a nearby UPS Store in Arizona, where I'm camping at present. (I could also buy it in the local West Marine store, last time I looked, albeit at a much higher price.) But I know not everybody is easily able to get their hands on it.I will say something about your second point. I don't put much stock in what the commercial solar industry uses. From what I've seen, those companies pop up like mushrooms and disappear just as quickly. I doubt most of them have done any long-term testing, or care very much about what happens in a few years--they probably won't be around by then. 😉 Call me a cynic, but I wouldn't look to them for "best practices."Bottom line: I'll stick with 5200, which I know works. 5 Likes
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