Log In | Register
Skip to main content
Topic: What powers what--a battery charging question (Read 337 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
What powers what--a battery charging question
Hi Lazy Daze Technicos,

I need to be schooled in what powers what.

My 2003 Lazy Daze 26-1/2 foot rear kitchen model with 190,000 miles on it (a recent gift from my 98-year-old father) has two 6-volt house batteries and one 12-volt chassis battery that need to be kept charged over the long Massachusetts winter or, as I dimly understand it, bad things happen.

The rig has four candidates to do the charging: (i) solar panels, (ii) shore power, (iii) a generator, and (iv) the truck engine.

Is this correct?
(i), (ii), and (iii) but not (iv) charge the house batteries.

(iv) charges the chassis battery, but I am not sure if (i), (ii), and (iii) also charge the chassis battery.

This LD Companion entry titled "RV Power for Dummies" suggests that (ii) charges the chassis battery

The Lazy Daze Companion: battery maintenance

About halfway through the article, it states, "First, anytime you are plugged into shore power, the batteries are being charged by the converter/charger unit." But, I am not sure which batteries the article is talking about. (The piece is written for dummies, so way above my skill level!)

I am going to park the rig outdoors next to my home over the winter and not use it. If I periodically connect to "shore power" by stringing a power cord to my home, will that charge the chassis battery? I would rather not run the engine because that uses gasoline, increasing the risk of condensation inside the tank. I assume the solar panels don't charge the chassis battery, but maybe they do? How do I tell the if the chassis battery is charging? Watch the battery gauge on the dashboard?

Any advice appreciated. Please speak slowly and enunciate.






Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #1 –
Quote from: wshimer  - 
The rig has four candidates to do the charging: (i) solar panels, (ii) shore power, (iii) a generator, and (iv) the truck engine.

Is this correct?
(i), (ii), and (iii) but not (iv) charge the house batteries.

(iv) charges the chassis battery, but I am not sure if (i), (ii), and (iii) also charge the chassis battery.

(iv), the truck engine, will also charge the house batteries, but not in a way that is sufficient without help from (i), (ii), or (iii). 


Quote from: wshimer  - 
This LD Companion entry titled "RV Power for Dummies" suggests that (ii) charges the chassis battery

About halfway through the article, it states, "First, anytime you are plugged into shore power, the batteries are being charged by the converter/charger unit." But, I am not sure which batteries the article is talking about. (The piece is written for dummies, so way above my skill level!)

This section is talking about the house batteries.


Quote from: wshimer  - 
I am going to park the rig outdoors next to my home over the winter and not use it. If I periodically connect to "shore power" by stringing a power cord to my home, will that charge the chassis battery? I would rather not run the engine because that uses gasoline, increasing the risk of condensation inside the tank. I assume the solar panels don't charge the chassis battery, but maybe they do? How do I tell the if the chassis battery is charging? Watch the battery gauge on the dashboard?

Any advice appreciated. Please speak slowly and enunciate.

As your 2003 rig came from the factory, the chassis battery is not charged when you plug into shore power.  Some owners add an aftermarket system like a Trik-L-Start or Battery Minder to change that. 

TRIK-L-START
Battery Minder

For a set it and forget it system, you could add a trik-l-start and run a power cord from your house to the RV for the winter.  If your RV has the original charge converter, you will want to add a timer to the system so it doesn't run constantly and cause the water in the battery to boil away.  Alternately (and your Dad may have already done this), many of us with 2003 vintage rigs have upgraded the converter to something that doesn't require the timer. 

The reasons for the upgrade are covered here:  The Lazy Daze Companion: Converter/Charger

Hope that helps and wasn't too confusing. 

Rich

 



2003 MB
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #2 –
Hi WShimer;  Welcome to the Lazy Daze Group.  Sounds like your father really knows how to give a great gift. You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the systems involved in motorhomes..
     As far as charging systems 1) well close, but no.  The solar panels do keep the house batteries (those two 6 volt deep cycle batteries) charged. A 2003, I believe, came with one 85 watt panel. Enough to keep the batteries charged for small loads. With additional inexpensive part(s) the solar panel controller can keep the chassis battery charged up also.  More of a trickle charge to keep it from going dead over a long storage time.
     The shore power in a stock 2003 provides very little power to charge the house batteries, but does disconnect the batteries, and the converter (powered by the 'shore power' connection) runs the house circuitry 12 volts DC.
      If the generator is running, it substitutes for the shore power. No other changes.
      The engine is absolutely your main power source. The alternator on the Ford V10 charges the chassis battery the entire time it is running, (but once running the battery just accepts power). The alternator also supplies power to keep the engine running, i.e. air conditioner/heater fan, magnetic clutch, fuel pump, headlights, outside marker lights, brake and other systems, etc.
      It also charges the house batteries. Quite a lot of power, and will give them a good charge in a few hours.
      Modern converters will also provide a lot of charge to the house batteries. Yours may not be one of those. 2003 was a change year and the model number on your converter would be good here.??
     Running the engine on gas does put steam into the exhaust system. It condenses into water if it is cold enough and often you can see it dripping out of your tail pipe.  Gasoline is a one way trip out of the gas tank and does not put water vapor in your gas tank.  Using gas does decrease the volume of gas in the tank, until it runs out. Instead of generating a vacuum in the tank it sucks in outside air, with water vapor in it. That does condense on the inside walls of the metal (cold) tank and settles to the bottom because oil is lighter than water.  Fill the tank all the way to reduce space for vapor to collect, and use a gas treatment that you would use in cars. It never gets very cold here so I don't know much about that. Get some below zero antifreeze for the windshield washer reservoir while you are at it. Well charged house and chassis batteries have very little water in them. Mostly Sulfuric acid, and it doesn't freeze until the temperature is lower than 32 F.
   What is more important is to winterize the water supply and drain the water system in the motorhome, the house part, just as you would for any house not lived in, in Ma.
    There are small power drains on the house battery, that always 'on' LP gas detector, and other items. They will make batteries go dead. The sulfuric acid converts to water and then the batteries freeze.  Some people take those batteries out and store them in the house (garage?) with a trickle charger.
    A lot depends on how cold and for how long.  Continuous shore power for heat during storage can help a lot.       RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #3 –
"The shore power in a stock 2003 provides very little power to charge the house batteries, but does disconnect the batteries..."

Ron, can you clarify that last statement? Or was that a typo?
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #4 –
Hi Andy; Did some checking on the internet, and upgrading the fuse board when putting in the new PD4655 is because the old Magnetek (bought by Parrallax in late 2001) separated the circuits. Some (3) requiring better 12vdc remained on the battery. Radio and other audio circuits. The remaining circuits for high power drain and not sensitive to ripple, got switched off the battery to the converter's not as filtered source.  Water pump, lighting and such ran directly off of the converter. W Shimer's 2003 likely has the newer Parallax. Joan said that her 2003 came with a Parallax brand converter.  My 1999 came with the Magnetek. It's relay switched out the circuits deemed not to need very good filtering. LD hooked up the TV connection under the fold up TV platform to the not as good filtered circuit, and a USB outlet had to have better filtering. (TV was fine BTW). That prompted me to upgrade to the PD.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #5 –
"My 1999 came with the Magnetek.  It's relay switched out the circuits deemed not to need very good filtering."

So the old Magnetek converter used a relay to disconnect those circuits (water pump, lighting and such) ... in what situations? (My 2003 came with a Parallax power center, but I replaced it with separate Victron and Blue Sea components, hence my unfamiliarity with how the older Magnetek and Parallax systems worked.)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #6 –
Hi Andy;  On the old fuse board the left 3 branch circuits were for 'sensitive' electronics and stayed connected to the battery. When plugged in, the branch circuit fuses, 5 on the right, switched to the converter output. I'd call them poorly regulated, but water pump, heater fan and lighting. Additionally the charger was connected to charge the battery and provide 'makeup' for the three branch circuits. The battery was the filter 'capacitor'.  3 to 10 Amps was the rated charge. Not temperature compensated. Not enough to charge when you needed it, too much to just sit there for a long time.  Three stage in the PD, (I didn't enable the Equalize) A resting Float charge below the finishing float value, to not cook the batteries over a long time.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #7 –
Forgive me if this comment is out of line. The original poster asked some some basic questions about what electrical system charges the various batteries, and had asked for some rather simple explanations. Now this discussion, from my point of view, has gone off the road and into the deep end of the pool. Reading about branch circuits, capacitors, three stages, float charges, etc is most likely confusing some folks.

And I beg to differ about Ron's comment about the shore power providing little power to charge the batteries on a stock 2003. I have a 2003 and shore power does charge my house batteries. And it does not disconnect the batteries either. You need a battery disconnect switch to disconnect the batteries if you aren't removing cables from the batteries.

No offense intended; I think some of the well intended info that has been posted in this thread has been awfully confusing to non engineering folks.

Steve K
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #8 –
Hi Steve, I agree that this went south. My comments referred to the Magnetek converter that my '99 came with, but the company was bought by Parallax in 2001, so you and W Shimer got the better, improved 2003 Parallax model.  And my later comments were for Andy, who like me has a background of working in electronics.  I should have started a separate thread, when the conversation went off into the deeper 'water'.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
 
Re: What powers what--a battery charging question
Reply #9 –
In 2003, neither the solar charge controller nor the converter which were installed by LD were ideal for the job of charging up and keeping the coach batteries fully charged - but they did at least do a mediocre attempt. This is why many owners of this vintage have upgraded to preserve maximum life and performance for those batteries with reduced maintenance required. This involves using multi-stage chargers that better conform to the battery chemistry. The Lazy Daze design team were not well-versed in electrical system state-of-the-art, but to be fair, neither were most competitors. The Trojan batteries, however, were a good choice, and mated to a Pro-Fill or similar simplified watering system, they could be maintained well enough to give a useful lifetime of many years.

The same cannot be said during the later transition years when LD switched to AGM batteries without upgrading the charging components to match them. Though they corrected this error in their most recent models, premature and expensive battery failure became common for those vintages. With all batteries with lead-acid chemistry, disconnecting them - with occasional topping off as needed - would be the best way to preserve them for an over-winter idle spell. BTW, for lithium batteries, you can leave them disconnected for months without issue, if any have upgraded.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit