Lithium batteries and security

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Lithium batteries and security

November 25, 2020, 02:04:30 pm

I'm considering replacing my AGM batteries with lithium, but at $1000 a battery, I'm concerned about them being stolen while I'm boondocking and away from my rig. Has anyone had any security issues with their lithium batteries? Does anyone know of a way to secure them other than the compartment lock which can be easily pulled open? At 23 lbs, Lithium batteries are so light weight, they can easily walk away, unlike the AGM that are 60 lbs each.

Lithium batteries and security

Reply #1 – November 25, 2020, 02:05:57 pm

I'm considering replacing my AGM batteries with lithium, but at $1000 a battery, I'm concerned about them being stolen while I'm boondocking and away from my rig. Has anyone had any security issues with their lithium batteries? Does anyone know of a way to secure them other than the compartment lock which can easily pulled open? At 23 lbs, Lithium batteries are so light weight, they can easily walk away, unlike the AGM that are 60 lbs each.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #2 – November 25, 2020, 02:17:33 pm

Hi Tracy; Swapping in Lithium batteries isn't that simple. They are a different technology, and require different charging voltages, higher power wiring, a new converter, etc. They also can't take below freezing temperatures (a little but not like lead acid) and high temperatures. They usually get relocated to inside the coach, where they are more temperature stable and more secure from theft. They don't need venting.
Kent went the whole route on his coach. Extra solar panel option RonB

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #3 – November 25, 2020, 02:28:29 pm

Lithium batteries are safe to install inside the the coach as are the AGM batteries. We have five Battle Born lithium’s inside our RB under the rearward dinette seat.

The old battery bay is not insulated and is a poor place to install lithium batteries due to their exposure to possible freezing temps. Now we use the outside battery bay for our Macerator and hoses. Lots of options there for storage.

Lithium’s are a great option since they have nearly 80% of their storage capacity as opposed to AGM’s 50% usable capacity. Also, their long life is superior to AGM’s.

Some upgrades to your charging system will be needed to protect the Lithium’s from overcharging by the chassis alternator. Easy enough but necessary.

All the best.

Kent

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #4 – November 25, 2020, 06:30:45 pm

Caligirl, since you have a '91, even for AGMs you should have upgraded from the standard converter to a multi-stage one compatible with that technology. Your upgrade to Lithium I guess will be using those designed to be compatible with that charging technology, else you will need to get compatible charging control too. If you are mounting the batteries in the locked battery compartment, no one will know what you have - in that old a rig they are unlikely to suspect you have lithium, so no temptation. If you mount them inside, even less of an issue.

Steve

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #5 – November 25, 2020, 09:28:47 pm

[merged 2 identical topics]

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #6 – November 26, 2020, 10:45:13 am

For a determined thief anything in our RV's are easy to get. I'm not knocking your concern just pointing out it's relatively easy to open any door on the RV. Making it a bit harder is just about the only thing we can do. There are replacement locks one can installed on the outside bins. Just do a 'compartment lock' in the search bar.

glen

ps imho Lithium is the only way to go in todays environment. In the long run they are cheaper in the lead acid technology.
And yes (smile) I have done the numbers many many times.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #7 – November 26, 2020, 12:15:52 pm

The battery compartment’s door can have its vents covered and closed-cell insulation glued to the inside of the door. With fresh seals applied around the door perimeter, the battery compartment will work fine for lithium.
Holes can be drilled in the plastic battery box to allow coach interior heat to warm the box’s interior.

Larry

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #8 – November 26, 2020, 03:59:29 pm

Glen, I would like the "numbers" that favor lithium over lead-acid. I suppose we all should.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #9 – November 26, 2020, 06:39:52 pm

Quote from: Don Malpas - November 26, 2020, 03:59:29 pm

Glen, I would like the "numbers" that favor lithium over lead-acid. I suppose we all should.

<smile> be happy ta. Enclosed is a thread where I covered the issues and numbers. It can, I admit, be mind numbing and eye glazing over but it needs to be done.

Battery type costs

glen

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #10 – December 05, 2020, 08:46:08 pm

I replaced the 3 8D batteries in my Foretravel with 3 Battle Borns. Had approximately the same USABLE AH, & lost about 3-400# of weight. I moved those batteries to 2 subsequent motorhomes, 5 yrs old and they still had power to run the A/C over 4 hrs. Will I put Li in my "new" 1996 LD....bet your what ever. You get a lot of misinformation on these groups so you should confirm any of your concerns with the manufacturer.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #11 – December 06, 2020, 08:30:52 am

Thanks for referring me to your previous post with all the "numbers".

The question for me is will I last long enough to enjoy most of the cycles of the Li batteries.
I think my cycle counter is getting low.

Edit: 2500 cycles/180 days per year they are charged = almost 14 years.
If they had come with our rig in 2007, we would still have a few years left on them.

What appeals to me about Li batteries is the ability to deep discharged them wo harming them.
We normally take ours down 20% a day - we have two CPAPs. So a day without sun means will be down to around 60% the second morning. Still no sun, that means we have to drive or run the generator.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #12 – December 06, 2020, 08:53:59 am

Good info on batteries.

What Are the Best Batteries for Solar Off Grid? - Understand Solar

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #13 – December 06, 2020, 07:20:07 pm

Quote from: Don Malpas - December 06, 2020, 08:30:52 am

The question for me is will I last long enough to enjoy most of the cycles of the Li batteries.

That's the real question. Will the owner, or the coach, or the batteries themselves function as designed for the full life cycle?

A lot of things have to go right for the numbers to work out on a pure $$ basis.

For casual users (most RVers), people who don't plan to own that rig for 10 years (a lot of RVers), or people who have seen products fall short of manufacturer promises (I sure have), I don't think the numbers as as clear.

Rich

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #14 – December 06, 2020, 07:55:42 pm

Quote from: rich - December 06, 2020, 07:20:07 pm

That's the real question. Will the owner, or the coach, or the batteries themselves function as designed for the full life cycle?

A lot of things have to go right for the numbers to work out on a pure $$ basis.

For casual users (most RVers), people who don't plan to own that rig for 10 years (a lot of RVers), or people who have seen products fall short of manufacturer promises (I sure have), I don't think the numbers as as clear.

Rich

Life happens. I get it. But there will never be a time when a person has all the information. I have yet to be able to see into the future. We can only predict depending on past behavior. To make a comparisons I used manufacturer spec sheets. Are they factual, I have no idea but we all need someplace to start. The question is is product A better then product B vs product C. In a theory one can make comparisons but in real life one can just make educated guesses.

For those that know me I don't take anything personal unless of course you say its personal <smile> so disagree to your hearts content. I enjoy the ride.

glen

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #15 – December 06, 2020, 07:59:26 pm

I just pulled the Li out when I got rid of the MH till I got 5+ yrs out of them, my 4 Battle Borns were nearly $4k, I certainly wanted to get mileage out of them. You won’t recoup the price of the batteries if you leave them in the MH when you sell it.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #16 – December 22, 2020, 12:48:03 pm

Just pulled the trigger on 2x Bigbattery 170AH units. Give me 340AH usable, & we don’t even boondock any more, but I’ll use the LD as a power wall when our lights go out.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #17 – December 22, 2020, 01:15:38 pm

Quote from: riverrd - December 22, 2020, 12:48:03 pm

Just pulled the trigger on 2x Bigbattery 170AH units. Give me 340AH usable, & we don’t even boondock any more, but I’ll use the LD as a power wall when our lights go out.

Interesting. Never heard of this company until now. A quick review of their system and connections raises a concern about the offered external Anderson SB175 connector cables being only 6 AWG at 36″ in length. Internally the cabling is 2 AWG. IMHO, the external cable gauge is much too small. The SB175 connector housings themselves are capable of using 1/0, 1, 2, 4, or 6 AWG cable with the appropriate contacts.

<EDIT> Per the photos on their site these SB175 connectors from BigBattery may not be Anderson Power Products® Powerpole® Connectors but appear to be knockoffs. I use genuine APP connectors and contacts from Powerwerx. Powerwerx is one of several US distributors for Anderson Power Products. Caveat emptor.

Charles

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #18 – December 23, 2020, 10:17:28 pm

I plan on opening the box to see what can be done with the "Anderson’s", I like the idea, but I also am concerned with wire sizing. I used 2/0 for all cables on my last system, we’ll see what we see.

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #19 – December 23, 2020, 10:51:05 pm

Per Anderson Power Products about the Powerpole Connectors...

The SB 175 Standard Housing uses up to 1/0 wire and allows currents up to 280 amps
SB 2/0 housing allows use of 2/0 wire and handles up to 340 amps
Same external dimensions as standard SB175 and completely inter-mateable

So you could get an APP SB 2/0 housing to see if it mates to the "Andersen" battery connector so you could use 2/0 wiring. Let us know what you end up doing.

Charles

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #20 – December 24, 2020, 03:34:14 am

Quote from: Charles & Donna - December 23, 2020, 10:51:05 pm

Per Anderson Power Products about the Powerpole Connectors...

The SB 175 Standard Housing uses up to 1/0 wire and allows currents up to 280 amps
SB 2/0 housing allows the use of 2/0 wire and handles up to 340 amps
Same external dimensions as standard SB175 and completely inter-mateable

Good catch on the SB175 plugs, I believe the SB2/0 lugs are wider where the two lugs mesh.

The price of lithium keeps dropping, the Bigbattery 170-amp/hr battery pushes the price down more and might be a better way of going lithium if you have the space under a dinette to place them. They are too tall to fit in the Factory battery compartment.
Looks like a good way to more than double the usable capacity while losing 60-lbs.
Wish there was more information about the company and its track record.

Larry

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #21 – December 24, 2020, 11:39:11 am

Quote from: Larry W - December 24, 2020, 03:34:14 am

Wish there was more information about the company and its track record.

Larry

Anybody can put together Lithium cells. Till there is some sort of standards we all at risk for substandard deals that will tarnish the reputation of Lithium technology. Today it is a buyer beware situation.

glen

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #22 – December 24, 2020, 01:41:06 pm

SolidState lithium batteries are coming sooner than most realize, and they will offer even higher capacity, lower weight, and faster charging. VW has bet big on this technology for their upcoming EVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azACL3lLMo8&ab_channel=QuantumScape

Buying lithium these days is like buying any newer technology - you're always know that whatever you buy now will be eclipsed soon by the latest and greatest for the same or less money.

Rich

Re: Lithium batteries and security

Reply #23 – December 24, 2020, 10:23:17 pm

Quote from: rich - December 24, 2020, 01:41:06 pm

Buying lithium these days is like buying any newer technology - you're always know that whatever you buy now will be eclipsed soon by the latest and greatest for the same or less money.

Bleeding Edge costs $$$$, Leading Edge not so much. You make your bet and hope for the best.

Charles

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