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Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Forgive me, I get tickled when people talk about beefing up the hitch as though the hitch is not capable of handling the rated amount. It can handle 4,000 and more with no worries. Now if the plan is to tow a lot more than 4,000, then they might be exceeding Ford's capacity and there is nothing they can do about that.

I just don't know where people get these ideas.

[this post and others split out from the 2021 pricing topic since they were unrelated to pricing - Michelle]
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #1 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
Forgive me, I get tickled when people talk about beefing up the hitch as though the hitch is not capable of handling the rated amount. It can handle 4,000 and more with no worries. Now if the plan is to tow a lot more than 4,000, then they might be exceeding Ford's capacity and there is nothing they can do about that.

I just don't know where people get these ideas.
list of four wheel down tow cars is long but if you filter it for four wheel drive, I doubt you will find any car below 4K. I looked at previous years list as well and seems each year cars are getting heavier. In my case, I would have gone with Wrangler but even a basic Wrangler (without a single option) is touching 4K limit. Instead of changing the hitch to accomodate my need for Wrangler I went with a lighter all wheel drive Equinox. Just fyi, not interested in any long discussion on this topic.
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #2 –
Hi Don;  It is more involved than just a straight pull capability.  It's more the frame extension that LD uses between Ford's frame ends and the bumper.  Sideways torque and up/down stress has to be factored in also, especially at the 4000 pound limit.  My E350 has a 11,500# (GVWR) and a 18,000# GCWR, so the vehicle can handle more than the bumper 'as installed'.  I wouldn't do that.  Many people are pulling Jeeps (Rubicons) that top out over 4000# and the stresses of rough roads can make it worse on the bumper hitch. So some modifications, might be warranted.  Just a car like a Forrester or Honda would not warrant any extra measures or modifications. I agree with you there. 
     So Larry, did you modify anything to tow your new Jeep?                       RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #3 –
Ron, that’s why I purchased a 2015 Forester with manual transmission. Curb weight is under 3,400 lbs., well within the hitch rating for the LD.

It seems like the new Ford chassis might be a little more forgiving than the old one. Thoughts?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #4 –
Ron, as I have confessed before, I have 114,000 miles of pulling toads that were close to or over 4,000 pounds. I have had the hitch inspected twice for signs of metal stress, none was found. I concern myself more with stress on the transmission.

Since 2014 we have been pulling a Rubicon that is armored with weight-saving aluminum and has tires that add another 200 pounds to it. Damn good hitch/bumper the Mothership puts on.

Can you recall anyone saying their hitch failed?
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
Ron, as I have confessed before, I have 114,000 miles of pulling toads that were close to or over 4,000 pounds. I have had the hitch inspected twice for signs of metal stress, none was found. I concern myself more with stress on the transmission.

Since 2014 we have been pulling a Rubicon that is armored with weight-saving aluminum and has tires that add another 200 pounds to it. Damn good hitch/bumper the Mothership puts on.

Can you recall anyone saying their hitch failed?

You could say I like to run with scissors. Our pleasure in traveling has become almost exclusively wheeling off-road. Going without the Rubicon is just not thinkable.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #6 –
Don, did you have your hitch reinforced?  Or using the stock one from the factory?
Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #7 –
Hi Don and Greg.  I took the bolts out connecting the frame extension pieces to the bumper, and LD had enlarged the bolt holes with a torch. This left blobs of metal around the hole, so the cheap (Home Depot generic type) washers dished and warped, and couldn't be tightened to stay flat. The metal contact patch was too irregular and small. I took it apart, ground the edges flat, enhanced it with grade 8 bolts, washers and a web filling piece of steel channel. Much better. The Dune buggy at 1500# and Geo Tracker at 2400# don't really stress the hitch at all. I haven't pulled anything heavier.   I have no idea how other rigs/bumpers newer than mine are built. Larry Wade was my inspiration, and his picture collection shows how his bolts were coming apart, towing a heavy Jeep.  I'll include my 'after' photos.    RonB
    edit:  yes, I recoated the bare spot on the wood with undercoat, after the picture.
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Jane and Scott  - 
Don, did you have your hitch reinforced?  Or using the stock one from the factory?
Jane
Short answer, not really.
I did replace all the bolts with grade 8. I had the adjustable part of the extension tack welded so it could never move.
I don't think that either could be considered beefing it up.

Ron discusses this above and it is covered in minute detail in at least two articles in The Companion.
The Lazy Daze Companion: Towing
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
Can you recall anyone saying their hitch failed?

We have had two near failures, first the hardware that secures the bumper to the frame rail loosened and fell out and later the hitch receiver plate loosened..
The rear bumper mounting bolts loosened because the adjustable slots in the bumper were too wide, allowing the cheap washers to dish and cave in, letting the nuts loosen and fall off. The 1/4" stove-head bolts, bolting the bumper's vertical lip to the rear wall prevented the bumper from leaving.  The bumper and frame extension were sandwiched together with 1/4" steel plates and bolted together using Grade-8 bolts, lock nuts and washers. It isn't going anywhere now.
Rear bumper mounting repair | Flickr

In Mammoth a few summers ago, I meet someone who worked for the steel fabricator LD uses to build their bumpers and hitch receiver plates. He told me there had been hardware failure of the bolts securing the hitch receiver plate to the bumper, the 1/2" and 5/8" bolts were too small had broken, when used for towing. The newer plate bolts were bigger.
Hitch receiver upgrade | Flickr
Disassembling the plate, i found shiney spots between the plate and the bottom of the bumper, indicating the plate was moving, I drilled the mounting holes oversize and switched the 1/2" and 5/8" Grade-5 hardware to 5/8" and 3/4" Grade-8 hardware.
A few one inch long  strips of weld were added between the bumper and plate, preventing any loosening.

If towing a heavy vehicle, verify the 1/4" bolts that run across the bumper's vertical lip are not rusted and are tight, also make sure the bottom of the rear wall, where the bolts pass through, isn't rotted. These bolts provided a large amount lateral strength to the bumper.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #10 –
So you are saying it's the manner in which the hardware is attached to the frame that can lead to failure. Not the frame, not the hitch. You have long advocated using grade 8 hardware and steel plates. I checked mine some years back and found they had moved and needed replacing. The next year I went to a hitch shop to get his opinion. We lay on the floor and he explained in detail there was really nothing he could do to "beef it up" and that there was no evidence that it was needed, as there were no signs of the metal being stress. Since I was there he welded so it would never move.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #11 –
I am looking at my hitch attachment bolts. They have 6 lines on the heads and the letters “JH”. The washers under the large 1 1/8” bolt head and smaller 3/4” bolt head look very thick, like 3/16”.

I have a 2013 MB, and I wonder if the factory changed their build since the recommendations were posted to upgrade the hardware to Grade 8?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #12 –
Six marks indicate grade 8, Coloring is kinda gold.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #13 –
Right. I wasn’t expecting to find Grade 8 already in place. Either the factory is building them that way with beefed up washers and bolts, or one of the shops did the change during rigging the Stay-and-play brake installation, or ?

Does anyone know if the factory made the change?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #14 –
I have resolved my confusion. I was focusing on the bolts that attach the hitch to the bumper. They are Grade 8 already. The issue the prior posters focus on is the bolts that attach the bumper assembly to the frame: these are Grade 2, and showing some wear on the threads and some distortion of the washers due to the oval holes in the frame.

Alas, the bolt elves have not visited and done me a favor after all. The world is a little less magical place than before. Sigh.

I found the 1/2”-13 Grade 8 parts at the local Tractor Supply, except for the extra thick washer. I may reuse the (apparently) undamaged extra thick washer when I reassemble it. Thoughts?
2013 27’ Mid-Bath
2005 Honda CR-V
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #15 –
"...except for the extra thick washer."

What about using a steel backing plate in lieu of the washers, ala Larry Wade? Most any metal fabrication company would be able to accommodate you on that.  ::)   ;)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
 
Re: Hitch capability (split from Re: 2021 Models and Pricing
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 
So you are saying it's the manner in which the hardware is attached to the frame that can lead to failure. Not the frame, not the hitch. You have long advocated using grade 8 hardware and steel plates.

While researching what to use for a tow vehicle, I visited the Mothership and asked Steve if he felt the rear bumper could tow over 4000-lbs, he responded that it should be fine for 5000-lb but they had decided to limit their recommendation to 4000-lbs. This was with the lightweight hardware LD used at the time.

Once the weakness of the frame to bumper and towing receiver plate hardware was discovered, and upgraded, I have experienced no further problems, all the hardware is checked with a torque wrench every 6-8,000 miles.
Using backing plates for the bumper mount was a permanent fix and using larger diameter, grade-8 hardware for the receiver plate significantly increased the clamping power, adding a few 1' welds finished things up.
Zero problems for over 60,000 miles. Overbuilt? Maybe a little, I like things that way.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze