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Topic: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question (Read 629 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #25 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
The Antigravity starter batteries are interesting. As far as I can see, they don't say what lithium technology they use--lithium polymer, LiFePO4, or something else. (Their jump-starter packs, which a number of us have, are lithium polymer based, but I don't know whether that technology can withstand high temperatures, and it's more prone to fires than LiFePO4.) I wonder how their "WIRELESS Remote-activated Jump-Starting" feature works. How can a dead battery jump-start itself?

I reached out to Antigravity, here is their response.

"We only use the latest in Lithium technology, so all our Re-Start batteries are LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate). They are also equipped with a full Battery Management System which includes over-charge, over-discharge, thermal, and short-circuit protections."

"Our one-of-a-kind Re-Start Technology intelligently monitors its voltage and will put itself to sleep if it senses over-discharge, yet amazingly saves just enough reserve energy to start your vehicle. For example, you left your lights on overnight – normally a dead battery emergency, but not with the restart function. Simply press the RE-START Button located on top of the battery to start your vehicle and drive away. No need for Jumper cables, Booster Pack or assistance."

Charles

Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #26 –
Thanks for passing along that info, Charles. The idea of holding some power in reserve sounds like a good one for a starting battery.

I do still wonder about temperatures. For example, Battle Born batteries shut down automatically when the temperature exceeds 135° F. Other manufacturers specify maximum charging temperatures as low as 113°. Seems to me engine compartment temperatures could easily exceed that. Antigravity says their starting batteries have thermal protection, so perhaps like Battle Born, they shut down if it gets too hot. I wonder how that works in practice on a summer day in Phoenix...

Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #27 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 

I do still wonder about temperatures. For example, Battle Born batteries shut down automatically when the temperature exceeds 135° F. Other manufacturers specify maximum charging temperatures as low as 113°. Seems to me engine compartment temperatures could easily exceed that. Antigravity says their starting batteries have thermal protection, so perhaps like Battle Born, they shut down if it gets too hot. I wonder how that works in practice on a summer day in Phoenix...

Engine bays can easily exceed 135 degrees on a summer day, with this limitation, they should be mounted far away from any sources of heat.
I can imagine at times our entire cars can get to and exceed 135 degrees, in July or August, when sitting in the sun all day.
I'll stick with a lead bases battery for a while.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #28 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
Our LD's 2013 Costco Series 65 battery has a 100-month warranty. The old battery still has 18 months on its warranty.
Costco's $99.99 battery shown below has the same specs as the old battery except it has a 36-month warranty.
Costco | Interstate Batteries
[quote ]

Picked up a new Series 65 battery today from Costco.
With18-months remaining on the 100-month warranty, it cost $90, out of the door including taxes.
I'm happy.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #29 –
Thank you all for your informative replies.  When I posted my question I knew hardly anything about batteries.  Now I have a much better understanding of them.  Thanks again.

Monica
2017 Mid-Bath
Monica
2017 MB
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #30 –
"I'll stick with a lead based battery for a while."

You know, way back when I was young and stupid (three days ago), I thought a LiFePO4 starting battery would be good, mainly because I was thinking of the pain of hoisting a battery into place in the engine compartment. Now that I'm older and wiser, I'm asking myself "Other than ease of installation, what problem does this solve?"

LiFePO4 batteries accept charge faster than lead-acid batteries, but in a starting battery that's irrelevant. LiFePO4 batteries can be used over a wider range of charge (20% to 100%), but starting batteries are never deep-cycled, so who cares? LiFePO4 batteries can deliver heavy currents because they don't suffer from the Peukert-based limitations of lead-acid chemistry, but lead-acid starting batteries can deliver heavy currents regardless.

Antigravity claims that you'll "Enjoy better starting and handling, shorter braking distances, better acceleration, better gas mileage, and many other benefits." But if you seriously believe that saving 30 pounds of weight in a 14,000-pound vehicle will do that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking about the drawbacks...

LiFePO4 batteries can't be charged at normal rates in temperatures below freezing. Built-in thermal protection can prevent charging, but what happens in winter if it stays that cold for several days in a row? The battery just gets lower and lower. Yes, the Antigravity batteries have "Re-Start" reserve power, but how many times can you use that if the battery isn't being recharged due to low temperatures?

LiFePO4 batteries can't be used at high temperatures, and we all know engine compartments get HOT. Again, built-in thermal protection can disable the battery, but what happens if you drive for a few hours on a summer's day, letting the engine compartment get nice and hot... then stop for gas, and find that you can't restart the vehicle?

And about that built-in protection... I don't know about cars and trucks, but in many marine engines if you disconnect the battery, the alternator's diodes will be instantly fried. So it's possible that if the Antigravity battery's thermal protection disables the battery due to high or low temperatures, you could be facing alternator replacement, and that ain't cheap.

Finally, these batteries cost five to six times as much as equivalent lead-acid batteries. Given that I can't think of any benefits (at least in RV and truck applications) and plenty of drawbacks, why would anybody spend that money? Just so you can be cool, with cutting-edge technology?

I'm with Larry. For this application, I'll stick with lead-acid.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #31 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
Finally, these batteries cost five to six times as much as equivalent lead-acid batteries. Given that I can't think of any benefits (at least in RV and truck applications) and plenty of drawbacks, why would anybody spend that money? Just so you can be cool, with cutting-edge technology?

It costs less to pay someone to lift the heavy battery for you than it does to buy one you can lift on your own.

I think the target uses for Lithium starting batteries are very weight sensitive, like aviation or auto racing. 

Rich
2003 MB
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #32 –
Quote from: rich  - 
I think the target uses for Lithium starting batteries are very weight sensitive, like aviation or auto racing. 

Rich
And I'll add motorcycles, ATV's, and other assorted powersports.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
 
Re: Battery (Engine) Replacement Question
Reply #33 –
"I'll stick with a lead based battery for a while."

"I'm with Larry. For this application, I'll stick with lead-acid."

No question about it. Next starting battery for our LD will be lead-acid.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King