Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #25 – April 29, 2020, 04:49:33 pm

Debbie (In Venice);  When you use a 'Dogbone' to adapt your 30 Amp LD to a 50 Amp service, you are just not connecting to one power pin in the 50 A. socket. It goes unused.   If you are spending money to have under ground wiring installed, and paying to have the electrical installed; you might as well include one more wire in the feed (4 instead of 3), to have future capability for 50 A.
    Have both the TT-30  and 14-50 sockets in the box. Adaptors for long term stays should be avoided. Save that dogbone for campgrounds that only have 50 A. spots left.  If you decide to save propane trips, you can electrify your water heater (Hottrod) and run that line separately to the 20 A regular duplex socket in the hookup box. You can't do that unless you've got that extra 20A from the other 'phase'. (20A plus 30A= 50A)  Parussky's Home Depot box comes with all three sockets and breakers.
    With 4 in-laws (I call them outlaws) in Texas, I know what it can be like in summer. If you have the 15,000 Btuh roof air, instead of the 13,500 Btuh, you'll be pushing that 30A limit. You might want that extra 20A capability to run other things like a hair dryer, coffee pot, even the microwave. (I won't mention toasters again).    RonB

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #27 – April 29, 2020, 05:27:43 pm

Hi Debbie, We all like pictures of that type of  addition, since some others of us may be adding this feature. I have friends with 12 acres rural, that are shopping for a travel trailer, and we can add two outlets,  for when my LD visits their place.  RonB

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #29 – April 29, 2020, 06:13:43 pm

Adding my thx for this thread & all the wisdom from various wizards--and breaking the terminology down for those of us not in-the-know, as this is a project in the future for the stix.  The FOLD is indeed a many splendored thing!

Lynne

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #31 – May 01, 2020, 08:48:03 pm

Jon,
Sorry, I wasn’t intending to explain details on purpose but I was just trying to point out an effort needs to be made to balance things and make sure the users of the electricity are not trying to use too many things on one breaker or on one phase (one of the 120V wires coming into the house/building) and it is not a simple as it might seem.   To just say it needs to be balanced didn't seem to convey the whole picture.

I see balancing missed by many electricians and handymen - many will say sure and wire up whatever you are asking saying it will be fine when they have not determined what else is on that circuit nor what the entire panel looks like.

That is why you want to interview your electrician to make sure they can do your specific install  and they have satisfied customers that can let you know it was done correctly in their home (they are not flipping breakers regularly, didn’t destroy their RV, etc.).  And make sure they are bonded so there is a way to recover your costs if they worker says too bad the damage happened, I can’t cover that (or just disappears).

A simple explanation is that the electricity in the panel is split into two chunks (official layperson term ) – called Phases.  This is not the left and right side (or top and bottom) of the panel but is typically every other spot for a breaker in the panel.
When you have a breaker that takes up two spots in the electrical panel (e.g. 50 amp for a cooktop that uses a lot of electricity), it pulls 120V from each of the two phases to make 240V total.

If you have too many things on one phase, the panel is not balanced.  E.g.  If all your 30 amps for clothes dryer, oven/cooktop, hot tub, RV outlet, etc. are on one phase you can easily overload that phase.  The same if you are running too many things on one breaker and overload that breaker.

So when you are adding something bigger (30 amp, 50 amp) you want an electrician that will take a look at the panel and make sure they are balancing things.
Note:  Balancing things are best guess of how someone is using electricity in their home.  E.G.  Do you always run the dishwasher and the clothes washer/dryer right after dinner, or do you always make sure you run them separate (only one of those appliances at a time ever).  What all do you run in your outlets at one time?  [5 kids/grandkids all having their own TVs and computers or just one TV and rarely use the computer.]

I found a website that has some good basic info on balancing your panel – I scanned a couple of their pages and overall the site looks good.  TheSpruce.com - basic electrical info
Note: I and this web pages uses terms like typical and usually.  There are always exceptions.  And never trust what your electrical panel says, it is rarely complete.  I learned that way back when – I shut off the living room breaker only to get zapped because the switch I was working on was on the outside light breaker (other side of the wall).  Luckily not a nasty zap.

I have been meaning to add to my last post that an inspector is not necessarily an expert who will catch all errors, but you are getting two pairs of eye on the project which increases your odds.  I will update my original post to include that.  This is why I always look for currently licensed and bonded (with no current lawsuits) for things that can be costly to fix like electricity, plumbing, structural, etc.

Re: Install 30amp or 50amp at home??

Reply #33 – May 02, 2020, 05:57:44 pm

Jon,
If you have an older home it is not wired the same as newer ones as all those kitchen appliances were not common. 
Likely there is one outlet circuit (wires all running to one breaker) for the entire kitchen (current code requires 2 outlet circuits for the kitchen) and often refrigerators, microwaves, and kitchen sink disposals are also on one of those circuits (sometimes their own circuits in newer homes).

You may have an outlet nearby you can use to plug in some of your kitchen appliances (or close enough you can add a new outlet off that same circuit).
You can figure out what is on your circuits by making a map.  Turn off one breaker and go see what stopped working (check outlets, lights, appliances).  You may have an outlet you could use for some of your appliances (or close enough to wire a new outlet to).  Then turn that breaker on and do another breaker.  If you end up with items unknown, figure them out in the end.

I have seen very odd things at times - like on outlet not on the same circuit as the other outlets in the room, but tacked onto another circuit as it crossed the house on the way to the electrical panel.  I figured maybe an apprentice did the odd stuff.  So don't make any assumptions, test everything (all switches, all outlets, all appliances).
My personal opinion we should get this map whenever we buy a house, but that never happens . 

Another tip, if you have an older home (including 1970s not just 1950s or before), check your electrical panel and google that manufacturer/model.  There is a famous (infamous?) one that if  you overloaded it the breakers didn't flip.  Symptoms can be blackening around the outlets or not being able to run things but no breaker flips.  The breakers are to protect when you overload the circuit (try to run too many things on it) and if they don't flip that can cause a fire.  I have found that brand in homes as early as the 1950s and as late as the 1970s but I don't know exactly what years it was used. 

Jane