Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

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Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

August 04, 2019, 10:02:13 pm

Our 2001 Honda CRV at 275000 miles (longest I have had a car) decided that the Air Conditioner needed to be replaced (only our 2nd ever repair on it, the first costing under $200). Instead of putting money into it, since we were planning on getting a new car for towing at the end of the year, we are just moving our plans forward. In fact within a couple of days of planning that, it was sold today (apparently the drive train is in demand for rally cars).

We looked at Foresters at the dealer yesterday, since that is what we want to get. We were checking out colors and some other details.

We learned that the eyesight (lane assist, collision avoidance, etc.) is not available on manual transmission cars - it would cause problems of breaking and the car then being in the wrong gear for the speed and for someone not as skilled in manual transmission I can understand this would throw them. But darn, I wanted that, couldn't they just do the alerts for everything without the automatic breaking? Yes, it is still not bug proof, but they do automatic software updates regularly which gives hope.

The salesperson, who was trying his darnedest to sell me a car that day, showed me a car that he said was a "manual transmission" but had no clutch. In his words, why would I want that (he said difficult, awkward, useless or something like that) clutch anyway. The gear shift looked like an automatic but instead of Drive and then a Low that the automatic transmissions had,it had Drive and M for manual. You put it into the manual gear and then used little levers under your fingers on the steering wheel to shift up and down gears.
It was the oddest "manual transmission" car I had ever seen.

Well I just looked it up and it is a lineartronic CVT

Anyone tried any of these? I would be curious on people who know transmissions putting in their 2 cents on this new contraption, whether there is any value to having this vs a automatic CVT.
Note: Towing 4 down I expect is a no way with both CVT transmissions (I didn't confirm it but Subaru's offficial statement is ok with a manual transmission, not with a CVT transmission).

Video below explains the transmission.
http://www.planetsubaru.com/lineartronic-continuously-variable-transmission.htm

Jane
PS: Anyone thinking of selling their manual transmission Forester, feel free to send me a private message. Though we have one identified we likely will be buying soon if nothing else comes across our path.

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #1 – August 04, 2019, 10:24:37 pm

Quote

The salesperson, who was trying his darnedest to sell me a car that day, showed me a car that he said was a "manual transmission" but had no clutch. In his words, why would I want that (he said difficult, awkward, useless or something like that) clutch anyway.

Jane, that answered my question "What ever became of Joe Isuzu?"
Thanks

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #2 – August 04, 2019, 11:39:49 pm

I have this setup on my Honda Odyssey minivan.

There is drive, which is normal automatic shifting and "sport", which has paddle shifting. I have found it useful only when I'm driving 25mph, where the automatic can't decide what gear to put itself into. It likes to shift back and forth at that speed. I put it into sport and set it for 4th gear and cruise smoothly. (It's a 9 gear transmission that shifts by push buttons on the center dash)

Probably would be good for long downhills too to force the tranny to do the braking

Linda B

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #3 – August 05, 2019, 02:19:09 am

Linda,
The salesperson did say this engine using the manual mode would make going up and down mountains better.
However, I would not be thrilled if my automatic didn't work that well and I had to hand tweak it regularly.

The salesman tried to tell me here in the city here I didn't need manual (we were not telling them we wanted a toad cause I knew they didn't have any), but he accepted my "we travel a lot including up and down mountains".
But I take what the salesman (or any salesperson) says with a grain of sale. It turned out one of the managers confirmed we could not get the eyesight safety features with a manual transmission - one of the reasons we went to the dealer, the other to look at colors though the salesperson showed me colors on a monitor - lol, we had already driven around the lot and looked at colors.

Jane

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #4 – August 05, 2019, 02:22:50 am

2018 was the last year for a manual transmission Forester in the US, although they are still available in some other countries. No 2019 or later US Subarus are towable four-down, as far as I know.

I have a 2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R with the continuously variable transmission you described, and love it. The transmission smoothly keeps the engine in its best power band--there are no perceptible shift points, since there are no discrete gears. "Continuously variable" means always smooth. Perhaps the best way to describe Subaru's CV transmission is to say that it's inconspicuous. It does its job efficiently and with no fuss. 95% of the time I don't even think about it. To me, it's as good as a transmission can get--and that's coming from someone who learned on a stick shift and preferred them for most of his life.

My Outback also has the pseudo-manual "paddle shifters" you mentioned. They're just behind the steering wheel, large and well shaped to make them easy to find by touch. On long or steep downgrades, I use them. Pulling the floor-mounted shift lever to the left engages manual mode, and then you can upshift or downshift with the paddles. This works fine when extra engine braking is needed. The paddle shifters tell the electronically controlled transmission what ratio is desired, and it smoothly goes to that setting. Look ma, no gears! ;-)

I find the "Eyesight" features extremely useful. Collision warning, lane keeping, blind spot traffic indicators, rear cross traffic warning, automatic following distance maintenance when in cruise control... these features make me a safer driver. They are not Subaru exclusives, of course--I had similar features on my Ford F-150 pickup. But they are definitely worth having.

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #5 – August 05, 2019, 03:11:07 am

It is my understanding that no CV , continuously variable transmission is towable, at all. Your old CRV (It was certainly in the old category) probably could have been towed though. I wonder how many salespersons can actually drive manual stick shift transmissions anymore. One person in the news recently was 'carjacked' but the culprits abandoned the car because it had a 'stick' shift. RonB

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #6 – August 05, 2019, 09:03:22 pm

Andy, I agree the CVT in the Forester I test drove (to check out eyesight) was very smooth. I could feel the road (not so slick I couldn't), yet less so than our previous SUVs (Rav4s, CRVs).

If I only had one choice, I would want the eyesight type features in an Motor Home (not the toad) since the Motor Home is so much bigger so easier to get close to those lane lines.

One of the managers tried to see if he could special order a 2019 with manual, but he could not (I don't know if he could maybe have ordered one in another country or if he thought maybe it was still made in 2019).

Jane

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #7 – August 05, 2019, 09:52:23 pm

The Crosstreck is available with a 6 speed standard transmission this model year. Size wise it is very close to a Forester. I’m not sure it is the same 6speed as my Forester but suspect it is. You will want to check. I like my 2016 Forester but find the gear ratios for first and reverse are to tall. I suspect to help with the fuel economy standards. The wife’s car is a 2015 Forester with the CVT and the earlier version of adaptive cruse control. It is a nice package - but can not be towed.

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #8 – August 06, 2019, 07:13:01 pm

John, yup the saleman tried to push that one. The crosstrek is smaller (and lighter, which means it loses when "butting heads" with bigger cars). We are SUV folks and didn't even look at the crosstrek in person.

Of note, all the subarus (no I have not looked at them all, just a few), seem to have that higher clearance which makes them more desirable as a toad.

Jane

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #9 – August 06, 2019, 08:10:09 pm

The Forester, Impreza, and Crosstrek are all based on the same platform. The original Crosstrek is just an Impreza with a Forester suspension package. That may not be the exact case now but I doubt is is to far afield. Had I known what I know now about the weight-gearing penalty I might have opted waiting longer or special ordering a Crosstrek. There are times when starting on a hill the gearing challenges the Forester.
If I lived out west and wanted to explore ghost towns off the main road the CVT is a better choice in a Forester. Neither is a true off road vehicle but both will easily handle unimproved dirt roads. The real ticket would be a 6 banger with a useable 6 gears. All in the Subaru inventory, but not offered.

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #10 – August 06, 2019, 08:21:39 pm

John, here is an interesting video comparing a Crosstrek and Jeep Wrangler:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRQyNjLaXY

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #11 – August 07, 2019, 01:31:39 pm

We own a 2015 Forester XT, equipped with a full skid plate package. With the CVT, it cannot be towed.
It is a decent forest road vehicle but when the rocks reach 8" diameter, and there is no way around them, the journey ends.
Having driven manual transmission Foresters, the first gear is too high and requires slipping the cutch in low speed situations, it lacks the extra low gears the Jeep has and manual transmission equipped Subarus are not available with the traction improving X-Mode.
Our near stock 1997 Cherokee will run circles around the Subaru in all rough off-road conditions.
The built 2001 Cherokee will leave the Subaru miles behind when the conditions get bad.
It's all about the ground clearance from bumper to bumper, not just under the axles.

Comparing a Jeep to a Subaru is an apples to oranges comparison, they are two very different vehicles.
The Jeep can go places that the Subaru only dreams of. The Subi is a much better highway car.
Take your choice.

Larry

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #12 – August 07, 2019, 01:52:04 pm

I test-drove a 2018 Crosstrek, and while it was fun to drive, it felt a bit underpowered compared to my 2014 Forester. It probably had about the same amount of power as my 2009 Honda Fit, which is to say adequate but not exactly snappy.

There's widespread agreement about the 6-speed manual Forester's low gears not being low enough. I haven't driven the CVT Forester, but of course it isn't towable. And all of this may change as Subaru transitions to a single-platform product line.

For example, I just bought a 2019 Outback 3.6R because I wanted the six-cylinder engine, which is not only more powerful than the standard four, but reportedly doesn't have the oil-burning and other issues that have affected the four. Subaru is discontinuing the six in mid-2019 in favor of a new turbocharged four, so it was a case of "get it while you can." The new four may prove to be a great engine; it remains to be seen. I prefer the tried and true. :-)

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #13 – August 08, 2019, 02:53:12 pm

Quote from: HiLola - August 06, 2019, 08:21:39 pm

John, here is an interesting video comparing a Crosstrek and Jeep Wrangler:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRQyNjLaXY

Greg,
I enjoyed the video. The road they selected looked rather mild though it is difficult to show hills and rocks in a video. I would be comfortable taking my Forester on that road. I actually would have been comfortable driving my dad's 74 Ford F250 on that road even though it did not have 4WD. Going to YouTube there are plenty of off road adventures in various Subaru's, but almost all the newer ones make use of the larger engine and CVT. If I move to the southwest (a distinct possibility after my wife retires) I will likely loose my Subie at some point and get an old CJ for towing. But that is in the far fetched future. For the foreseeable future this Forester is just fine.
?? A side note, was that Andy doing the Moab in his Outback??? !! ;-)

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #14 – August 08, 2019, 03:41:56 pm

"...comparing a Crosstrek and Jeep Wrangler:..."

Re: UTube video

Well, that was just your typical forest service road, nothing to sweat. I drive my two wheel CRV over worse than that. Now when I had my '77 IH Scout we had some fun trips!

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #15 – August 08, 2019, 08:33:00 pm

Quote from: Lazy Bones - August 08, 2019, 03:41:56 pm

"...comparing a Crosstrek and Jeep Wrangler:..."

Re: UTube video

Well, that was just your typical forest service road, nothing to sweat. I drive my two wheel CRV over worse than that. Now when I had my '77 IH Scout we had some fun trips!

That was off road???

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #16 – August 09, 2019, 12:12:21 pm

Just to clarify, I did not mean to imply that a Subaru can hang off-road with a Wrangler. The Jeep was designed for off-roading, the Subaru wasn't. However, I've seen modified Subaru's that can do some pretty amazing things! I do take comfort, though, that I can take my Outback into many situations that I would never attempt with most highway-designed vehicles.

My 4WD Tahoe was better suited for off-road.

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #17 – August 12, 2019, 02:16:23 am

Yes, like others, our "off roading" is limited to forest roads and desert "paths".
We don't do rock crawling in our vehicles and are not interested in that.

I did some climbing sides of large hills/small moutains, so steep that you had to transverse back and forth to get up them (and still felt like you were going to roll down the hill as they were steep), but I never loved that and wouldn't go seeking it again.

Our CRV has gone into a lot of places, a Forester would do even better.
Jane

Re: Toads - Forester manual no clutch transmission (lineartronic CVT)

Reply #18 – September 07, 2019, 01:12:02 pm

Here is a good summary of Motorhome Magazine's Annual Dinghy Guide, for vehicles that can be flat towed
(article has a link for each year 2012-2018 - you have to scroll down a bit in each article to get to the actual list of towables)

Looks like the last year Subarus are on the list is 2015.

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