2017 27' MB Check Engine Light (Bad Crankshaft Sensor)

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2017 27' MB Check Engine Light (Bad Crankshaft Sensor)

July 03, 2019, 10:08:30 pm

Last year the check engine light came on when we were on Cape Cod. Before I could get it to a shop it was off and didn't reappear. About a month ago it came on again and started flashing on the way back from a 100 mile trip. I took it into a big Ford shop here and they couldn't determine the cause. It was off again and then came back 10 days ago. I dropped it off at the Dealership last Thursday and they found codes (P0301, P0307 & P0308) which indicated that cylinders 1, 7 & 8 were misfiring intermittently. They performed relative compression tests , pressure test after the engine was hot, left to say overnight and showed no drop in pressure, no coolant intrusion. They had it for five days and have not been able to figure out what is causing the problem. They said today they couldn't recreate the codes, but as soon as I drove it off the lot, the check engine light was on again. We're getting ready for a 5,000 mile trip but am worried there will be issues. It starts with no problem, it doesn't sound bad. Any suggestions?
Thanks
David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #1 – July 03, 2019, 10:55:31 pm

Quote from: DPhilbrick - July 03, 2019, 10:08:30 pm

We're getting ready for a 5,000 mile trip but am worried there will be issues. It starts with no problem, it doesn't sound bad.

If this was our situation, we'd have to consider this a serious issue that would prevent us from traveling much less to go on a 5,000 mile trip. The odds are not in our favor that if something serious was to happen that we'd be near a qualified repair facility. I just couldn't take the chance, but that's me.

My only recommendation is to call the Ford dealership and request that this issue be escalated to Ford's Regional Office. My Ford manual has a 800 number for technical support. (I've only called them once and they were very helpful). I'm guessing your manual has the same number. So I'd also call that number and attempt to get help escalating the issue. (This might be the phone number - 800-392-3673).

I know this isn't much help, but it's what we'd do.

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #2 – July 04, 2019, 02:19:36 am

It's been pretty closely checked out. I would just drive it. If it breaks along the way you just have to get it fixed assuming a problem is found. My understanding is that most of these check engine light issues are emissions related.

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #3 – July 04, 2019, 06:12:38 am

Thanks for both sides of the issue. It has been driven about 300 miles on two separate occasions with the check engine light on so it's a tough call. I plan on hunting for the best I can find in the Orlando area and on Friday, contacting a Regional contact. Even though we were going to take off on Monday, we can push our start back to a week from tomorrow and still make Detroit by Monday without cutting a sweat. Marie is a retired GM engineer (she worked some for Ford before moving to GM) with a lot of family in the Detroit area. We're there for two weeks and it hard to imagine that someone in Detroit would not be able to figure it out if we can't get it resolved here.

Thanks again
David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #4 – July 04, 2019, 09:46:01 am

On our spring trip this happened to me and it was caused by the oil dip stick not being properly seated.

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #5 – July 04, 2019, 12:24:13 pm

Good chance you have either a wiring problem or a batch of defective ignition coils.
I always carry a set of spares.

Larry

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #6 – July 04, 2019, 12:40:31 pm

Hi David. The engine computer runs the engine, but isn't very busy. (those electronics are sooo fast!) The computer does engine run time testing in the background. A few misfires are allowed, but if more than a certain percentage show up per mile, it will set the 'check engine' light. If you keep driving and the misfires stop, or decrease in frequency enough, it will clear the light, but usually set a pending code. This code is what Ford found. That they found it for three out of your ten cylinders tells me something else is going on. CarMD says that the blinking Check Engine Light is a severe failure!
Quote: A flashing CEL (Check Engine Light) is something serious to be concerned about. A blinking CEL indicates that
your vehicle's engine is misfiring, which could severely damage your catalytic converters. ... Engine misfire is a
severe condition that requires immediate attention to avoid expensive repairs or even a car fire!Jul 27, 2015
In order to check compression and leak back the Ford mechanics had to pull the coils and plugs. So I assume the plugs looked ok and were seated properly. The first thing to do, would be to swap out those spark plugs, 1, 7, and 8, with three previously unaffected plugs, that would be easier to get to. Then swap the coils with three other cylinders that were previously unaffected. This is to see if the problem followed the plugs, or the coils, or stayed at the previous 1, 7, or 8 cylinders.
Personally I would suspect a wiring harness problem, or engine computer problem. It would be easy for Ford to temporarily exchange the computer for a known good one. Are you still 'in warantee'?
I'm (checking) thinking that cylinders 1, 7, and 8 are not grouped together. I believe that Ford does finally have OBDII on your model year. I like having a scan gauge on my old E350 with OBDII, and you should have one to keep track of this problem. I wonder if some other sensor could be feeding some wrong information to the engine computer. My cheap code reader (Harbor Freight) allows me to watch results of 'in loop' testing, and I think would allow me to watch misfire results on screen while being driven. Were there any apparent engine anomalies? Hard starting? Bad gas? Air cleaner look ok?
If the light had come on as I were driving home from Ford, I would have turned right back around! Well actually, 17 years ago I did have a problem that Ford 'couldn't replicate'. They had BlueBelle for 3 weeks, as my 3 year warantee expired. I ended up diagnosing it in my driveway, and fixed it just hours before leaving on vacation. RonB

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #7 – July 04, 2019, 03:31:33 pm

Quote from: RonB - July 04, 2019, 12:40:31 pm

Hi David. The engine computer runs the engine, but isn't very busy. (those electronics are sooo fast!) The computer does engine run time testing in the background. A few misfires are allowed, but if more than a certain percentage show up per mile, it will set the 'check engine' light. If you keep driving and the misfires stop, or decrease in frequency enough, it will clear the light, but usually set a pending code. This code is what Ford found. That they found it for three out of your ten cylinders tells me something else is going on. CarMD says that the blinking Check Engine Light is a severe failure!
Quote: A flashing CEL (Check Engine Light) is something serious to be concerned about. A blinking CEL indicates that
your vehicle's engine is misfiring, which could severely damage your catalytic converters. ... Engine misfire is a
severe condition that requires immediate attention to avoid expensive repairs or even a car fire!Jul 27, 2015
In order to check compression and leak back the Ford mechanics had to pull the coils and plugs. So I assume the plugs looked ok and were seated properly. The first thing to do, would be to swap out those spark plugs, 1, 7, and 8, with three previously unaffected plugs, that would be easier to get to. Then swap the coils with three other cylinders that were previously unaffected. This is to see if the problem followed the plugs, or the coils, or stayed at the previous 1, 7, or 8 cylinders.
Personally I would suspect a wiring harness problem, or engine computer problem. It would be easy for Ford to temporarily exchange the computer for a known good one. Are you still 'in warantee'?
I'm (checking) thinking that cylinders 1, 7, and 8 are not grouped together. I believe that Ford does finally have OBDII on your model year. I like having a scan gauge on my old E350 with OBDII, and you should have one to keep track of this problem. I wonder if some other sensor could be feeding some wrong information to the engine computer. My cheap code reader (Harbor Freight) allows me to watch results of 'in loop' testing, and I think would allow me to watch misfire results on screen while being driven. Were there any apparent engine anomalies? Hard starting? Bad gas? Air cleaner look ok?
If the light had come on as I were driving home from Ford, I would have turned right back around! Well actually, 17 years ago I did have a problem that Ford 'couldn't replicate'. They had BlueBelle for 3 weeks, as my 3 year warantee expired. I ended up diagnosing it in my driveway, and fixed it just hours before leaving on vacation. RonB

Hi Ron. Thanks for the tips. The engine is not giving me any problems (hard starting, stalling, etc.) but I am planning on taking her to a Ford Truck service shop in Orlando tomorrow or Monday to get a second opinion on what's going on. I actually don't believe that the place I went to couldn't "replicate" the codes but that's water under the bridge. We're under warranty. I'll look into getting a code reader.
David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #8 – July 06, 2019, 07:24:09 pm

Quote from: DPhilbrick - July 03, 2019, 10:08:30 pm

About a month ago it came on again and started flashing on the way back from a 100 mile trip. I took it into a big Ford shop here and they couldn't determine the cause. It was off again and then came back 10 days ago. I dropped it off at the Dealership last Thursday and they found codes (P0301, P0307 & P0308) which indicated that cylinders 1, 7 & 8 were misfiring intermittently. They performed relative compression tests , pressure test after the engine was hot, left to say overnight and showed no drop in pressure, no coolant intrusion. They had it for five days and have not been able to figure out what is causing the problem. They said today they couldn't recreate the codes, but as soon as I drove it off the lot, the check engine light was on again.

I sure wouldn't take off on a 5000 miles trip with any known engine issues.
The most common engine issue with later model V10s are bad or intermittent spark plug coils.
I have heard of many ignition coils becoming defective, no matter what the mileage.
Intermittent coils usually occur breakdown when the engine is very hot, not something a shop is going to be able to easily replicate.
All Ford did when checking your V10 was to analyze the cranking amperage to estimate compression in each cylinder.
They also checked the cooling systems for leaks. They did not physically check the plugs or coil, unless you paid several hundred dollars, its a lot of work to get to the coils and plugs and even if they did, an intermittent coil will not show any visible damage.

If it were me, I would get a cheap code reader (or a ScanGauge or Ultragauge) and see if the same cylinders have shown up again.
If so, pull the dog house and, at a minimum, change the plugs and coils on those three cylinders.

Any time the " Check engine" light flashes on and off repeatedly the computer is indicating a operating state that can cause serious engine damage. If it flashes, you should get off the road ASAP.
Any serious engine damage in a V10 can not be repaired in frame, resulting in needing a rebuilt engine, think $8000+ for a Ford certified rebuilt..
Ask me how I know.

Larry

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #9 – July 06, 2019, 10:28:56 pm

Thanks Larry. It is still under warranty so whatever they do is on Ford.
David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #10 – July 06, 2019, 11:07:37 pm

Quote from: DPhilbrick - July 06, 2019, 10:28:56 pm

It is still under warranty so whatever they do is on Ford.

That's good.
It be interesting to see if the same cylinders have codes, preferably before Ford saw it again.
Having some type of device that can read codes is handy, it doesn't need to be expensive.
For example.
Amazon.com: Manfiter OBD2 Scanner Auto Car OBDii 2 Code Reader Diagnostic...

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #11 – July 07, 2019, 02:17:19 pm

Hi Larry
I took your advice and picked up a code reader. Swung by Bossa Nova and hooked it up; shows misfires on cylinders 2, 6 & 8. Ford previously said 1, 7 & 8 and then switched to 8 only. Thanks for the direction. At least when I bring it in tomorrow I can tell them the misfires seem to be moving around, which to me in my totally clueless knowledge of these things might indicate problems with the computer or coils. 8 seems the only consistent issue.
Regards
David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #12 – July 14, 2019, 09:31:29 am

I had the same issue with my 2006 and after several (expensive!) trips to the Ford dealer to no avail found an old post on here that suggested that a problem with the fuel pump might be the cause of my mysterious check light. The problem disappeared after getting a new fuel pump installed. Good luck!

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #13 – July 17, 2019, 07:45:22 pm

Well, after one dealership (Jarrett Gordon Ford in Davenport, FL) gave up trying after 10 days to determine what the check engine light was, I took it to Rush Truck Center in Orlando, FL and after six days of changing plugs, coils, wires, etc. it was determined that the problem was a bad crankshaft sensor. They switched it out on Monday and we were on the road on Tuesday, headed for the Detroit area for the beginning of our 10-week trip. We were grateful they didn't give up, too. No check engine now.

David

Re: 2017 27' MB Check Engine Light

Reply #14 – July 17, 2019, 07:54:05 pm

It’s very gracious of you to get back with the details of your ordeal. Thanks David. And safe travels during the 10 week adventure.

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