AM Solar March 30, 2019, 12:08:42 pm I'm a few months away from beginning a self imposed sabbatical before deciding if I'm "done". One of the items on my "To Do" list is to upgrade our current configuration on our 2013 31' TB from 2 solar panels to 4. Since we are on the west coast and have friends in Oregon, it makes sense to utilize AM Solar as they are so highly recommended by this group. I've started the communication process with them but also looking to this respected group for suggestions as to what I should have AM Solar install once we get an appointment and are there? For example, I would want them to install a battery monitor system. We are not full-timers but definitely are camping boondockers who could possibly be in one location 7-10 days mainly in the West. Appreciate any and all suggestions!TIA,Bill 1 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #1 – March 30, 2019, 12:35:09 pm Quote from: pdl2win - March 30, 2019, 12:08:42 pmI'm a few months away from beginning a self imposed sabbatical before deciding if I'm "done". One of the items on my "To Do" list is to upgrade our current configuration on our 2013 31' TB from 2 solar panels to 4. Since we are on the west coast and have friends in Oregon, it makes sense to utilize AM Solar as they are so highly recommended by this group. I've started the communication process with them but also looking to this respected group for suggestions as to what I should have AM Solar install once we get an appointment and are there? For example, I would want them to install a battery monitor system. We are not full-timers but definitely are camping boondockers who could possibly be in one location 7-10 days mainly in the West. lAlong with two additional panels, the solar controller should be upgraded along with the lead-in cable, from the roof.You definitely want a battery capacity meter, to keep track of charge levels.If the weight capacity is available, the whole system will work better with two additional AGM batteries, bringing the total to four.Or blow the budget and install a lithium battery pack.The above should take care of your needs, AM Solar isn't cheap but they do good work and have a nice facility with overnight RV parking, if needed.Larry 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #2 – March 30, 2019, 12:45:29 pm Quote from: Larry W - March 30, 2019, 12:35:09 pmAlong with two additional panels, the solar controller should be upgraded along with the lead-in cable, from the roof.You definitely want a battery capacity meter, to keep track of charge levels.If the weight capacity is available, the whole system will work better with two additional AGM batteries, bringing the total to four.Or blow the budget and install a lithium battery pack.The above should take care of your needs, AM Solar isn't cheap but they do good work and have a nice facility with overnight RV parking, if needed.LarryThanks Larry - they did send me the pics of where someone with a 27' 2006 LD did add two add'l AGM's.....can't tell from the pics where though....where would you think they would install the two add'l batteries on the 31' TB? And lithium is out of my range unless two lithium would produce the same usage as 4 AGM's.....
Re: AM Solar Reply #3 – March 30, 2019, 01:02:48 pm AM Solar will advise you on placement of additional solar panels; LD tends to plop the panels on the roof without regard to optimal positioning for use and/or for later expansion, so, depending on where your panels are, positioning the new ones will vary. If you're going to spend the money on this upgrade, plan to keep your rig for a long time, and perhaps may consider additional upgrades in the future, I suggest getting the highest quality components that 'play well with others' (and those which will lend themselves to expansion/upgrading instead of replacement) that you can afford. Lithium batteries are a lot lighter than AGMs, and, as Larry said, if your 31' is already weight-challenged, and/or there are no practical locations to add two more AGMs, the lithium pack would be a good choice. (Yes, I know, pricey, for sure!)Good luck with the installations; please post what you decide on. 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #4 – March 30, 2019, 01:47:33 pm We have full timed in our 06 30' IB for over 10 years now. I would love 4 batteries but the weight factor stops us.We do have the two 100 watt panels originally installed by LD and added a 160 watt panel by Grape Solar which is what AM Solar was using at the time we upgraded. While the panels aren't a perfect match we saw a good difference. We use a good bit of solar when boondocking and have found this to be more than enough. We generally only run the generator to exercise it and have 450 hours on it. We have two Trojan T-145 batteries.Weight would be my biggest concern which is why we don't have hydraulic levelers. Of course, if you aren't in it full time and don't carry that much you shouldn't have a problem.If lithium battery technology 10 years ago was where it is today I would have opted for that.Jim 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #5 – March 30, 2019, 02:16:10 pm "...suggestions as to what I should have AM Solar install once we get an appointment and are there?"The advice you have been given so far is valuable. However, given the CCC weight restrictions that come with a 30' floor plan you may want to reconsider adding two additional batteries. My 30'IB has three 100amp panels and two AGM batteries, both compliments of AM Solar, and that configuration has always been sufficient for my needs. And given strict weight monitoring thanks to Henderson's Line Up in Grants Pass I have never been overweight. 3 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #6 – March 30, 2019, 03:05:37 pm A few months ago I did a in depth study of cost/benefit on battery types.Battery Type CostsThe surprise was Lithium were/is cheaper in the run long. Or very very close in price to Lead Acid types. I'd me be very clear I'm talking about useful life cost.
Re: AM Solar Reply #7 – March 30, 2019, 03:32:59 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - March 30, 2019, 02:16:10 pm"...suggestions as to what I should have AM Solar install once we get an appointment and are there?"The advice you have been given so far is valuable. However, given the CCC weight restrictions that come with a 30' floor plan you may want to reconsider adding two additional batteries. My 30'IB has three 100amp panels and two AGM batteries, both compliments of AM Solar, and that configuration has always been sufficient for my needs. And given strict weight monitoring thanks to Henderson's Line Up in Grants Pass I have never been overweight. SteveNewer LDs have the 14,500-lb GVW, compared to our older LDs, with the 14,050-lb GVW. A portion of the extra capacity could be applied to two extra batteries. If a new LD is ordered, who knows what Ford may do with E450 once the 7.3 engine and 10 speed transmission are used. With the improved engine and transmission, the towing capacity could be increased if upgraded brakes are installed. There is good chance the GVW could increased too. Larry 1 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #8 – March 30, 2019, 05:02:03 pm I got my rig back from Quality Solar in Fremont - AM Solar authorized installer. Original plan was to replace my single 100W w/ 3 180W panels. Final was to keep the 100W and add another, plus 2 180W panels since they all were compatible. Blue Sky 3024iL & IPN remote monitor, 2 new AGM batteries (the 5 yo originals still had life in them but I wanted a clean sweep). He also installed a Prog Ind. EMS-HW30C I picked up at Quartzite.I hit the CAT Scale on the way to MB 4620/9420 = 14040 with driver, full fuel, and little water. I'm concerned two more AGMs would push the GVWR limit. I'll stay with two but may consider a lithium at some point.I just put the Adco tarp on today. Under the tarp the meter is showing 13.4 V and .3 -.4 A charge so that should be good to keep the batteries up.Dan does RV solar on the side and usually has a backlog. There was a bit of work getting this done in the Bay Area rain in Feb. I see it as money well spent.I also took time to mark the fresh water tank under the bed. Since I can see it thru the opening for the drain valve, I marked every 5 gallons. I found it has about 4 gal dead pool when drained and put in 45 gallons before overfilling. Now I can better monitor the water weight.Joel 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #9 – March 30, 2019, 05:26:20 pm "...once the 7.3 engine and 10 speed transmission are used."LarryI don't pretend to be a Gear Head by any stretch and so the recent mention of an as yet implemented 7.3 engine + 10 speed trans has piqued my curiosity. How is a V8 better than our V10 and why would a 10 speed be better than four, unless it's on a bicycle? I took machine shop while the other guys took auto shop, my bad! Oops! Just read your latest post on the thread "Ford Teases..." so now I have an idea of what the excitement is all about.
Re: AM Solar Reply #10 – March 30, 2019, 05:56:20 pm Bill, the number of panels and/or batteries that Tom, Dick, Harry or I find appropriate has nothing to do with what you need. Some friends here are fine with two batteries and two panels, while I have 5 panels and 6 batteries, and I sure wish I had room for a sixth panel. Everybody has different needs based on what you use and when, how and where you camp. Are you currently drawing your batteries below 70% on a regular basis? If so, you need either more batteries or batteries such as Lithium Ion that are ok with deeper discharging. Do your batteries charge up after a full day of sun? If so, you may not need more panels. That being said, you have gotten some good input above, particularly from Larry and Joan, if you are upgrading.I recommend you gather together whatever info you have on how you consume electricity, on the typical battery state in the morning, and after a full day of sun. Give that info to the folks at AM Solar and let them advise you about how to get the most bang from your buck.Ken F in NM 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #11 – March 31, 2019, 12:53:56 pm "How is a V8 better than our V10...?"It's not all about the number of cylinders, as any biker with an old one-cylinder Harley can tell you. :-) I don't pretend to be a drivetrain expert, but I can tell you about my experience with a 2017 Ford F-150 pickup towing a 27' Airstream--a combination comparable in weight to my 2003 Lazy Daze plus towed car. The Lazy Daze, of course, had a V10 and four-speed transmission, while the F-150 had a V6 with twin turbochargers and a ten-speed transmission. (Both engines were gasoline-powered.)In brief, the F-150 + Airstream combination was very noticeably more powerful and smoother-shifting than the V10-powered Lazy Daze. It stepped out smartly when towing the trailer, where the LD accelerated more slowly.(An anecdote about the F-150 will give you an idea of the raw power of its turbocharged V6: the first time I needed to pass a slow-moving truck on a two-lane road, I floored it--as I'd normally do with any car or truck--and pulled out. I shot past the truck in a couple of seconds, and when I went to pull back in, I was shocked to see that I was traveling at 93 mph! If this had been a sports car, I wouldn't have been surprised, but a pickup truck...?!)"... and why would a 10 speed be better than four, unless it's on a bicycle?"For the same reason that more speeds are beneficial on a bicycle: to better match the vehicle's speed to the optimum torque curve of the power source (human or engine). If an engine could provide full torque from zero to maximum rpms, no transmission would be needed. But it can't, so a multi-speed transmission lets the engine run in its preferred rpm range while providing the wheel speed desired by the driver. All things being equal, the more speeds offered by the transmission, the better a job it can do.Getting back to your V8-vs.-V10 question: for reasons that had to do with the suspension rather than the drivetrain, I ended up switching to an F-250 pickup that has a non-turbocharged V8 and a six-speed transmission. It's not quite as powerful as the F-150's turbocharged V6, but nevertheless, it's more powerful (when pulling a comparable load) than the Lazy Daze's V10. With a ten-speed transmission it would be still better, or at least smoother.Bottom line: engine and transmission technology have advanced since the day of the V10, which after all is a twenty-year-old design. Newer engines can provide more power with fewer cylinders, and newer transmissions can deliver that power to the wheels more efficiently. 4 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #12 – March 31, 2019, 02:05:00 pm "All things being equal, the more speeds offered by the transmission, the better a job it can do."Thanks much for your usual concise explanation Andy.I'm sure that my over-the-road truck driving Father would have given me much the same info re: his semi-tractors, if we had only had more time together while he was still driving. 1 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #13 – March 31, 2019, 03:20:35 pm I think we are mixing threads here but I believe in the video (in the other thread), the Ford engineer said this newly designed 7.3 engine/transmission combo was specifically designed for heavy-duty commercial use (GVWR ratings over 8,500) and provides more lower end torque and greater power across the band, or something to that effect. This should make it an ideal combo for class C usage and should result in much greater gas mileage numbers.
Re: AM Solar Reply #14 – March 31, 2019, 07:37:09 pm Quote from: HiLola - March 31, 2019, 03:20:35 pmI think we are mixing threads here but I believe in the video (in the other thread), the Ford engineer said this newly designed 7.3 engine/transmission combo was specifically designed for heavy-duty commercial use (GVWR ratings over 8,500) and provides more lower end torque and greater power across the band, or something to that effect. This should make it an ideal combo for class C usage and should result in much greater gas mileage numbers.Exactly! That is Ford's officially stated reason for going with the new 7.3 engine/transmission combo in all planned applications. Not to mention a much more robust and reliable engine that will have more usable HP and torque than the V10. In some applications the V8 could be configured produce over 400 HP (some say possibly 450 HP). While it does not apply to the E-Series, the new 10-speed transmission will also be mated with the 6.7-liter Power Stroke diesel that pushes out 450 hp and 935 lb.-ft. of torque this year. Knowing this I would not be concerned about the viability of this transmission in the E-Series.Charles 2 Likes
Re: AM Solar Reply #15 – March 31, 2019, 10:51:43 pm Yes, mixing topics here. For look-up purposes, let's keep this thread on solar issues. If someone wants, start a new topic on Ford truck rumors.Chris
Re: AM Solar Reply #16 – March 31, 2019, 11:46:02 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - March 31, 2019, 10:51:43 pmYes, mixing topics here. For look-up purposes, let's keep this thread on solar issues. If someone wants, start a new topic on Ford truck rumors.ChrisI was hijacked!!!!! LOL
Re: AM Solar Reply #17 – April 01, 2019, 09:53:54 am FYII have 200 Watts of poly-crystalline solar panels and 220Ahr of FLA battery. With the panels flat I can go two days on 32F nights charging 3 cell phones(3 adults and 5 yr old). The voltage drops to 12 volts on the second night dry camp no shore power. No charge monitor(Coulomb meter), Just a Go Power PWM30 controller, and the truck alternator, if urgently needed to recharge the coach battery.I am considering a 100 watt potable panel as my E350 chassis is weight constrained to 10,500 pounds or so.
Re: AM Solar Reply #18 – April 01, 2019, 06:16:46 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - March 31, 2019, 12:53:56 pm"How is a V8 better than our V10...?"Andy, we're still on the fence regarding a move. That being said, Ford dealers are pretty psyched about the 2020 models arriving this fall. As you know, the advantage of towing a trailer is you can upgrade the TV whenever the itch strikes:The 2020 Ford F-series Super Duty – New Engines and Big ExpectationsWhile huge towing capacities and massive torque ratings grab headlines in heavy-duty-truck land, these behemoths are also judged by how luxurious their cabins are and how fancy their high-tech options are. Accordingly, the 2020 Super Duty receives new driver-assistance technology, upgraded infotainment options, and updated exterior and interior features.
Re: AM Solar Reply #19 – April 01, 2019, 06:38:12 pm Quote from: rodneyhelfrich - April 01, 2019, 09:53:54 amFYII have 200 Watts of poly-crystalline solar panels and 220Ahr of FLA battery. With the panels flat I can go two days on 32F nights charging 3 cell phones(3 adults and 5 yr old). The voltage drops to 12 volts on the second night dry camp no shore power. No charge monitor(Coulomb meter), Just a Go Power PWM30 controller, and the truck alternator, if urgently needed to recharge the coach battery.I am considering a 100 watt potable panel as my E350 chassis is weight constrained to 10,500 pounds or so.A portable panel would still have to be carried by that chassis. Wouldn't matter if it were screwed on the roof or stowed elsewhere in the rig.
Re: AM Solar Reply #20 – April 01, 2019, 07:46:47 pm But I can leave the portable panel at the stick and brick home when traveling every day on family trips, or park in the shade and harvest some electrons.
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