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Topic: Installing LED marker lights from LD (Read 282 times) previous topic - next topic
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Installing LED marker lights from LD
I am confused by the difference in the number of wires and wire colors, between the LED replacement from LazyDaze and the existing wiring coming out of the RV wall, as well as the new LED replacement light base not having a hole like the existing base.

Photos 1,2 and 3 are for reference
Photo 4 is a numbered guide so we all know exactly what we are talking about when asking questions and giving answers.
Photo 5 is my guess as to how the new LED replacement light needs to be installed.

SO HOW CLOSE AM I  ????
who let the dogs out
1992 RB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #1 –
Hi Alice. In the old days of cars, black was the ground, and red was the plus 12v. dc. Houses were white (Safe as in white flag) for the ground, (neutral) and black was the hot lead, nominally 120 v. AC. Black being ground on a car, and hot on a house causes all kinds of problems to this day. I see lights for 12 v.dc applications often with black and white, +12 vdc for the black and ground for white. The marker lights you have are a more reasonable blend. +12v. for the red wire (hot in a car) and white for the neutral, to connect to the ground, or negative side of the battery, which in more modern cars is called a negative ground system.
    The two black wires in picture 4, labeled 5, 6, and 7 are the hot leads in and out and will connect to the fixture red wire. The two blue wires you've labeled 2, and 3, remain connected at 4, and connect to the white fixture wire.  LD must have had some extra blue wire laying around, (2,3,4) are the ground in and out. That wiring is called 'daisy chained'. The wire comes out from the previous light, and the other wire goes out to the next one in the chain. One fixture, the last one in the chain will only have one wire for the hot, and one for the ground. If you are wired like my 1999, and a friends 2001 MB, it will be the closest to the passenger side.
   You could connect the wires together (soldered, taped and heat shrink covered). Verify that all work, then stuff the wiring inside the back wall, then screw the new fixtures in with sealant. You would need to make sure the hole lined up with where the wires come out of the back of the new fixtures. I did that on my old (some other brand) motorhome. I think the easiest to do maybe. I solder well- over 60 years experience.
    Or you could drill a hole in the body of the new fixtures where that green circle is in picture 3. That should line up with where the wires come out of the back wall of the LD, in relation to the two mounting holes in the fixture. Lazy Daze drilled those holes in the old fixtures. At least you've got extra wiring, but you could do with shorter leads. If you don't cut some off, it might be crowded in that light when you snap on the lens. Be careful that the wires don't fall back in to the wall while you are working on these. It would be near impossible to retrieve them if they do.
   I hope this helped. RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #2 –
RON B

You said  “”””The marker lights you have are a more reasonable blend. +12v. for the red wire (hot in a car) and black for the neutral, to connect to the ground, or negative side of the battery, which in more modern cars is called a negative ground system. “”””

I was following the rest of your post  but the above tripped me up because neither the old wiring, nor the new LED wiring, have a red and black color combination. 

the old wiring has a blue and black combo
and
the LED replacement has a red and white combo.

I'm sure I have misunderstood something, so (please, oh please) could you explain this part again??


who let the dogs out
1992 RB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #3 –
Sorry Alice, it was too late at night. I've corrected the original post. Sorry to confuse you and others. The red, white combination is the best pair for trying to be organized. At least with the LED lighting, if you hook them up backwards, it doesn't harm them; they just don't work.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #4 –
You can verify which is ground with a multi-tester and a goodly length of wire.  Connect one end of the wire to a known ground and use the ohm meter to test.  The hot wire will have infinite resistance (make sure power is not on).  Write the results down somewhere for future reference.
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Alice  - 
I am confused by the difference in the number of wires and wire colors, between the LED replacement from LazyDaze and the existing wiring coming out of the RV wall, as well as the new LED replacement light base not having a hole like the existing base.

Photos 1,2 and 3 are for reference
Photo 4 is a numbered guide so we all know exactly what we are talking about when asking questions and giving answers.
Photo 5 is my guess as to how the new LED replacement light needs to be installed.

SO HOW CLOSE AM I  ????

Alice, I'm hoping you will write a Treatise on Marker Lights when you are through with your replacement/installation project. Surely you will know more than anyone else on this forum.  ;)

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #6 –
So, one of the markers will look like photo B and all the rest will look like photo A before the wiring goes back in the hole?


and should I put anything between the back of the LED base and the wall of the bus before I put in the screws???


PS  should I use a different size wire nut than grey?  I chose that because it is the smallest I could find..... and all that wiring has to back thru that hole!!
who let the dogs out
1992 RB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #7 –
"...should I use a different size wire nut than grey?"

The most important aspect of the wire nut is how secure it holds the wires together. If you cannot pull any of the wires free from the nut you're good to go (as long as you can stuff them back through the hole or presuming they won't fit under the fixture.)

And I know I'm picking a big nit here but can't you find a better description for the coach other than "bus"???   :(
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #8 –
Hi Alice. Is the hole where the wires come out clear of caulking?  Question number two: would the red & white wires coming out of the back of the new fixture be pinched against the motorhome wall when the two mounting screw holes are lined up?
    Yes there should be a liberal amount of good caulking material behind the new fixture to prevent any water from penetrating into the motorhome wall. Even if the new lense were to crack, fall off or otherwise. From the picture, it looks like water could wick through the hole where the wires go through to the back.
   Secondly those grey wire nuts don't appear big enough to contain two #16, (or maybe #14?) wires securely along with the new wire of the fixture. Better would be a crimped butt splice with the minor new wire included on one side of the splice. I usually wrap the splice with electrical tape wire to wire, (just two wraps) and then heat shrink a piece of tubing over the whole thing before inserting it back into the hole. That makes it easier to 'fish' back out if the need arises.
     I've never tried to undo the sealant around and under the fixtures that LD put there. Every time I've 'unsealed' things elsewhere, it turns into a big pain!  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #9 –
If the rear-exiting wires of the new fixtures cannot be re-routed back inside the fixtures, I would not use them. If they CAN be re-routed, then drill a hole in the same location as the old fixture for the LD wiring to enter, and make the connections. Use enough sealant to prevent water entry.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #10 –
Y-REEKA!!!    It works!!!

Believe it or not, I had already figured out it'd be better to use crimps instead of wire nuts for ease of replacing wire back into bus through the hole!!!

I also taped the crimped connections because I have nightmares about the wiring falling back into the hole, should they come undone for any reason.

I didn't have any problems stuffing them back in and the LED wires are clear of any pinching.

the only problem I have is that the black plug that came with the original light base, fit INTO that base, so the base was flat against the bus wall.  the LED base has no hole, so the plug lip raises the base up from the wall, won't work. I will be removing them.

Now, about the caulking, there was only a very light bead around the circumference of the old base, and a dab inside the plug where the wires came through to the INSIDE of the base.  (nothing at the hole UNDER the base.)

So I'm guessing I should;
1) put a dab at the bus wall where the wires go in
2) a bead around the circumference of the base
3) a dab on top of both screws.

is that correct?
who let the dogs out
1992 RB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #11 –

...WAIT, never mind the eternabond stuff below!!!

 I see there is a ledge on the bottom of the base where I can put the calk BEFORE I screw the base to the bus wall. I can do that on a flat surface relatively easily!!

So, what brand/type of caulk???

***********************************************************************************************************
OK, so bear with me here, I have never used caulking before and trying to lay a bead around a 2 inch, perpendicular circle, while standing on a ladder is probably not going to end up looking very pretty.

What if I took a 4 inch wide section of eterna-bond tape and cut it to the size of the base, cut a slit up to the center and took out a little divot where the slit meets the center (for the wires) and attach that to the back of the  BASE, then screwed down the base to the bus wall?

I’d put it on the BASE rather than the wall because it allows for easy removal of the LED unit for repair/replace, it only gums up the base, not the bus wall, and because the tape is a little “spongy’ it will be a water tight seal after the base has been screwed down, both at the circumference of the base and at the wire inlet of the base.

see pix for clarification, just pretend the white masking tape is the etrna-bond tape.
who let the dogs out
1992 RB
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #12 –
"Better would be a crimped butt splice..."

Alice

I am actually pleased that you used 'spade terminals' in lieu of 'butt splices'. Are you aware of the difference? Next time you need to disconnect those marker lights you will find it easier to pull the spade terminals apart instead of having to cut the butt splice out.  :D
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #13 –
Hi Alice. Hopefully you'll never need to pull the wires out of the wall, you could pull the connectors off, leaving the main wires inside. Use a small ty-wrap to connect the marker light wires to the main wiring harness, so that you can pull hard on the wires, without them un-plugging.
    You won't need that black (hard plastic) grommet. Cut it off, so that the fixture will lay flat. Don't use eternabond. It is sticky, hard to work with, and won't seal as well as caulking will. I use this multi-purpose sealer. Until it dries it can be wiped off with a damp paper towel.     Google Express
    If you don't have experience with caulk I won't recommend  3M 5200.

   Make sure the inside edges of the hole don't have any sharp edges. My plastic front cap is fiberglas. I guess that yours could be aluminum. The wires coming out of the back of the fixture should not be near the edge of the hole. Use stainless sheet metal screws to hold down the new fixtures.  there should be caulking goo all over the surface of the light fixture's back. not just in a small area. Some caulking should go down the holes where the screws go. Don't cover the screw  heads. I guess you could paint them white. I would use white plastic fix, so it can't be seen through the light lens. This stuff is good, use with a small brush, (really small brush). You can also fix chips in the white paint outside. Have some acetone handy to clean the brush.       https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Glue-0-5-fl-oz-White-Porcelain-Repair-19061-6/205517039?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202806506-_-205517039-_-N

RonB     (not totally responsible again at midnight here)
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
 
Re: Installing LED marker lights from LD
Reply #15 –
WOW, I am really disappointed. The LED marker lights from LD are about 1/3 the brightness of the "LED bulb in the old fixture" fix.  

All that work and it comes out like that.  NOT HAPPY. (photo 1)

Even the dogs were bummed (photo 2)

Not to be deterred, I fixed it. (photo 3)

What I did was a classic "Ruby Goldberg", I removed the LED chip from the NEW LED marker light and replaced it with the wedge socket from the OLD marker light . (photo 4)
who let the dogs out
1992 RB