Brake fluid change October 26, 2017, 06:01:07 pm My E450 brake fluid is overdue for a change according the criteria learned over the years by most home mechanics. I think the conventional wisdom is to change it every two years.But I decided to see what the Ford maintenance schedule that came with my motorhome says and after a lot of looking I can't find anything in there about changing brake fluid.I realize it is probably prudent to change it and that there is little downside to that, but is it possible that Ford doesn't require or recommend fluid changes, perhaps due to newer fluid or brake system technology?
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #1 – October 26, 2017, 06:04:48 pm How long has it been? 14 years? I'd do it. get the speed bleeders and start by sucking out the reservoir with a bulb or turkey baster, and refill with clean, it'll be a piece of cake then. it's guaranteed to eventually have too much water in it. As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #2 – October 26, 2017, 06:29:58 pm Well, a bit of Googling, which I should have done first, shows that Ford does not specify a brake fluid change interval. There are some references to their fluid being "lifetime."Our LD has had one fluid change at about half its current life. Apparently Ford would say that is twice what is needed by this point.I'm not too concerned about the lack of frequent changes since Ford isn't, and we live in a very dry climate and travel mostly in the low humidity west. And there is some information that says the real culprit in brake system deterioration is copper leaching out of some components, not moisture as is often alleged.There are brake fluid test strips available. Maybe I'll get some and see what they tell me.I'll probably get this done at the next service, but am relieved to learn my "neglect" probably isn't really that at all.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #3 – October 26, 2017, 06:34:12 pm Quote from: Terry Burnes - October 26, 2017, 06:01:07 pmMy E450 brake fluid is overdue for a change according the criteria learned over the years by most home mechanics. I think the conventional wisdom is to change it every two years.But I decided to see what the Ford maintenance schedule that came with my motorhome says and after a lot of looking I can't find anything in there about changing brake fluid.I realize it is probably prudent to change it and that there is little downside to that, but is it possible that Ford doesn't require or recommend fluid changes, perhaps due to newer fluid or brake system technology?Ford doesn't have recommended schedule for the E450, they do for the F53. They should have one.A change every two to three years is recommended . Brake fluid is hydroscopic, it absorbs moisture from the air.The hydraulic components of the braking system are mostly steel, which rust easily, so keeping moisture out of the system is a good idea. It's cheaper to change the fluid periodically than to replace internally rusted calipers, master cylinders and brake lines.While changing the fluid is well within the scope of a good home mechanic, it is impossible to fully flush the ABS pump and valve assembly, this requires a special scanner capable of operating the pump. Wish I had such a device.The best the home mechanic can do, after flushing the brakes, is to find a smooth dirt road and stomp on the brakes a few times, activating the the ABS system, during which the ABS pump will be flushed with clean fluid. You need to hear and feel the pulsating of the brakes and ABS pump to know it's working.It isn't the optimum way to do this but it does work.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #4 – November 03, 2017, 04:39:40 pm To learn more about this I ordered some brake fluid test strips:Phoenix Systems 3003 BrakeStrip 2 Strips Per Card | eBayI dipped a strip into my E450 brake fluid, waited the required 60 seconds and found my fluid tested between the two lowest categories, between 0 and 10. So despite it being 8 years since my fluid was changed it doesn't really seem to need a change.This may have something to do with our motorhome always being stored in a garage in Nevada when not in use, an environment with about as little moisture as practically possible. Or not. Maybe it means we don't need to change it so often.And maybe Ford is onto something not specifying a change interval for our E450s.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #5 – July 26, 2018, 10:20:47 pm If you're not going to do the brake bleeding etc., at least suck as much of the fluid out of the master brake cylinder and refill it with fresh. Better than nothing.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #6 – July 27, 2018, 09:32:24 am When the oil change shop said my brake fluid was wet. it cost $80 twice the cost of an oil change. NO! I did as Bob suggested, vacuumed out the resevoir and refilled with a new container of brake fluid. Besides with the Resevoir lid diaphrams, the water would come from old opened containers of brake fluid any way. Additionally, flushing the fluid out by bleeding is likely to push more rubber debris to the slave cylinders potentially causing them to fail.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #7 – July 27, 2018, 12:22:17 pm Quote from: rodneyhelfrich - July 27, 2018, 09:32:24 am Besides with the Resevoir lid diaphrams, the water would come from old opened containers of brake fluid any way. . Quote from: rodneyhelfrich - July 27, 2018, 09:32:24 amWhen the oil change shop said my brake fluid was wet. it cost $80 twice the cost of an oil change. NO! I did as Bob suggested, vacuumed out the resevoir and refilled with a new container of brake fluid. Besides with the Resevoir lid diaphrams, the water would come from old opened containers of brake fluid any way. Additionally, flushing the fluid out by bleeding is likely to push more rubber debris to the slave cylinders potentially causing them to fail. Bleeding isn't a complex job but it does take time.With shop time at over a $100 an hour, $80 doesn't buy a lot of time and brake fluid isn't cheap. While auto shops use power bleeders to speed the job up, it doesn't require any fancy equipment to do it at home.I find gravity bleeding the E450 safe and easy, the only issue is that it takes a couple hours of waiting.An open can of brake fluid will not absorb moisture as long as it is tightly resealed, I have tested older cans, using moisture test strips to verify.QuoteAdditionally, flushing the fluid out by bleeding is likely to push more rubber debris to the slave cylinders potentially causing them to fail. If you have rubber debris floating around the reservoir or in the brake system, you have problems that need more than just a bleeding. Flushing a brake system in good shape should have no negative consequences.Most cars will have their brakes rebuilt every few years, that's when flushing is normally done.RVs, with their lower annual miles, can go for many years without a brake rebuild and the fluid can get to be quite old.Once moisture starts building in the brake fluid, rust occurs. Rust is abrasive and can cut and scratch the rubber seals and damage the cylinder walls.Periodic fluid changes eliminate the water and flushes any rust.Flushing every three years is cheap insurance.While I see not a change interval listed on Ford's E450 Maintenance Schedule, it does appear in the Ford F53 Class A motorhome schedule. Both use similar brakes and fluid.Larry 3 Likes
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #8 – August 02, 2018, 10:57:45 pm Does anyone seriously think Ford overlooked something as important as putting a needed brake fluid replacement interval in the manual, and has been overlooking it for 20 years? It's not like the E450 cutaway is a new product without any field experience!Ford knows how those cutaways are going to be used - why would they want RVs on a Ford chassis crashing into things? IF replacing the brake fluid improved the brakes, then it would be good; but if it doesn't, then that's wasted money that could be spent on safety in some other way, such as buying a TPMS or getting those new tires sooner. I'll stick with the manual on this one.
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #9 – August 02, 2018, 11:54:53 pm When in doubt, test the fluid for moisture. If there is contamination, definitely change it. Over time it will pick up moisture.Frank 1 Likes
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #10 – August 03, 2018, 12:54:41 pm I’m confusied. I am having trouble understanding why a person would claim to drive only foreign cars would buy an American product and proceed to go on a chat room and give testimony as to how inferior it is to people who own the same product. 1 Likes
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #11 – August 03, 2018, 01:43:09 pm I use the Ford maintenance schedule as a guide for basic services and minimum service intervals and supplement it with recommendations from a very knowledgeable and experienced mechanic; these are the basic brake system servicing points and timelines re: the Ford E-450 (or E-350):"Flush and replace the brake fluid every 3 years or about every 30,000 miles. This interval can be shortened if towing and/or if the vehicle is usually/frequently operated in wet and/or dusty/dirty conditions.Lubricate the disc brake caliper slides every 20,000-30,000 miles or every 2 years.Brakes (front and rear) should be checked at each service interval; expect to have a complete 'brake job' done at between 50,000-75,000 miles, earlier if towing or "running heavy", i.e., operating at or over (bad practice!) the gvwr. Note: Bleed all brake lines when replacing brake components."While it's true that not all required or advisable services are included in the Ford maintenance schedule, a conscientious, savvy rig owner can certainly find plenty of information from credible, reliable sources to fill in the gaps in order to maintain his/her LD in peak operating condition. IMO, no vehicle of any brand or from any "country of origin" is uniformly and consistently well-designed, engineered, or built, but if one wants a newer (or new) Lazy Daze motorhome at the present time or in the near future, the chassis/engine choice is a Ford. YMMV, as always. 1 Likes
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #12 – August 03, 2018, 05:00:24 pm Hmmm, for many years Mercedes languished near the bottom in Consumer Reports annual survey of reliability. This year they’ve improved somewhat. They, along with Porsche, only trail Toyota, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Infinity, Buick, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and Mazda. To be fair, BMW and Audi did drop in just behind Kia. 😉. — Jon
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #13 – August 03, 2018, 07:37:33 pm It's hard to believe that this discussion is still going on.It's been a well known fact that brake fluid is hydgoscopic (water absorbing) and over time, the fluid will become contaminated with moisture. I learned that as a teenager.Water in the fluid does two things, it causes rust and lowers its boiling temperature. Rust is abrasive and will damage the delicate seals and cylinders of the brake system.If you have ever experienced brake fade, caused by bad brake fluid, it is about the scariest thing you will ever experience.When this happens, the brake pedal does little or nothingMost vehicles accumulate miles at a much faster rate than RVs and the time between brake services is usually much shorter. The brake fluid is normally flushed when a complete brake job is done.Most E-series vehicles are used commercially and got through brakes quickly, this may be why Ford fails to add flushing to it E-series maintenance schedule.It is interesting for Ford's Class A F53 chassis, periodic flushing is prescribed. For myself, a brake flush cost less than ten dollars and will continue to be done every two or three years.Larry
Re: Brake fluid change Reply #14 – August 03, 2018, 08:24:53 pm Folks, the title of the thread is Brake Fluid Change. Please return to that discussion. Chris
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