Lucky Lazy Dazers November 13, 2017, 10:48:49 pm Jim and Bev dodged the bullet on this electrical fire.Jim and Bev: RV Electrical Fire: We are very luckyChris
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #1 – November 13, 2017, 11:05:14 pm I recently had occasion to dig around the 120v outlets in our 2003. I was surprised to find the 120v outlets backstabbed instead of side wired. Stories like this have me wondering if I should consider changing all of them. Maybe installing an AFCI breaker on the outlet circuit would be reasonable? I don't have any experience with them, but I read that they can be flaky. Electrical Outlets: Side Wire versus Back WireRich'03MB in NC 2 Likes
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #2 – November 14, 2017, 02:18:23 am This answer is for Jim and Bev. Circuit breakers are over current protection devices. They trip when there is more current flowing than what the breaker is rated for. 20 Amps for a 20A breaker, 15Amps for a 15A breaker. Plus or minus a bit. That burned outlet you had is caused by a poor quality connection. Poor connection causes higher than normal current in small spots, causing voltage drop and localized heating. The heating causes oxidation and then a worse connection that causes more heating, spiraling out of control. Often with lower current flowing than you would normally have. Because of that the circuit breakers often don't trip. This brings to mind the recent thread about tightening up screw connections in power distribution panels, surge protectors, and power plugs. Iv'e often seen the 'back stab' connections just fall out of outlets. Proper installation involves pulling on the inserted wire to get them to 'bite' into the clamp that the wire goes into. A gas tight connection is best although a small contact area compared to a side wired outlet. Those need to be tightened very tight for the best connection also. RonB
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #3 – November 14, 2017, 03:01:18 am Rich, I have used AFCI (Arc Fault) breakers in a house. They are designed so that if a power cord plug is partially pulled out from the outlet and something metal like a nail file falls off the bedside stand and lands across both of the metal parts of the plug (e.g. between the non metallic part of the power cord plug and the outlet cover), it will flip the breaker.I was involved in redoing all the electric in a house with original 1950s ungrounded electrical wire.First step was to replace the main panel including new breakers. Second step was to replace all the wiring in the house.New codes says to put AFCI in bedrooms (some states want them in all outlets that do not use GFCI), so it was put in all bedrooms to follow code.The electric inspector who came out actually said after I leave take those AFCIs out. I was shocked.However, there was a lot of problem with the breakers flipping, often in rooms little used.As the wire was replaced and newer wire put in, the AFCI breakers quit flipping. So it seems the old ungrounded wire was tripping them. I have no idea what is really going on and if having AFCI might be an advantage in an RV or would have prevented the outlet burning problem. BUT the breakers have pigtails on them that need to put under a screw to ground them (e.g. a ground buss terminal bar) and the rule is one pigtail wire per screw. So a grounded buss bar might need to be added to the breaker panel.
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #4 – November 14, 2017, 03:32:27 am Just FYI, in our older "training wheels" RV, we had a short and we have an outlet that the plugs do not fit securely in.In working on these, there is sometimes conduit around the wire and sometimes there is not. There is no electrical gang boxes that the outlets sit in, instead they are just screwed down with the cover over them and the wires run in the raceway (e.g. the empty space between walls or between the twin bed cabinet bottoms and the bottom shelf inside the cabinets.Made me cringe a little as there is of course a bit of bare wire not far from wood - a wire comes lose and it could land on wood and start a fire.Of note, the electrical outlet in the cabinet above the TK beds had 30 amp wire to it which made me wonder if all wire was 30 amp wire no matter what the draw was. I was pleased this was inside conduit though not up to today's conduit levels and not water proof.However, the switch by the front door that runs lights has single wires (not the typical 3 wires for hot, neutral, and ground inside a sheathing). They are various sizes and 12 gauge wires with some of the pigtails being smaller gauge. No conduit.I believe that Lights and switches do not have to be grounded, certainly not in the past but even today I think, but many newer ones are. I know Lazy Daze proudly says they do not have wire harnesses but custom wire each RV (so extra wiring not just hanging/wrapped in the wall because the 24' didn't need it as long as the 30' did). It is done the way the person doing it that year is doing it. Having seen wiring in several houses, how it was done depends on who did it and sometimes it is obvious that was the electrician and that part was the apprentice.
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #5 – November 14, 2017, 07:49:41 am Quote from: JandS2 - November 14, 2017, 03:32:27 amI know Lazy Daze proudly says they do not have wire harnesses but custom wire each RV (so extra wiring not just hanging/wrapped in the wall because the 24' didn't need it as long as the 30' did). It is done the way the person doing it that year is doing it. Having seen wiring in several houses, how it was done depends on who did it and sometimes it is obvious that was the electrician and that part was the apprentice.Having seen a LD being wired, I was impressed by how they did it. Equally impressed every time I access the wiring for the lastest need. If only they had a few inches of slack in the wiring. 1 Likes
Re: Lucky Lazy Dazers Reply #6 – November 14, 2017, 11:01:20 am I was putting in LED #194 light bulbs in a 2001 MB and LED tail lights. I was amazed that LD had used #12 wiring for all of it. Marker lights at .070 Amps x 5 was .35 amps for all 5. The junctions were all in the fixtures outside, properly crimped with a smaller wire going to each light. Both hot and ground were this way, since there aren't any metal grounds available on the Fiberglas end caps. The cigarette lighter located for the TV, which ended up running a 200W (max) inverter had a 20A fuse I relocated into the Tube TV box. It was wired with 10 ga. wire. Unheard of in most motorhomes. In this case 'overkill' is very welcome. RonB 1 Likes
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