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Topic: Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed (Read 1190 times) previous topic - next topic
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Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed
We bought our '92 MB about a year ago.  Here are some photos.

Then we had to go off on a job for a couple months, and I was not ready to drive it cross country, so it sat home.  When we returned, I got to work on it. Dear wife has a refined sniffer, and was troubled by a faint musty smell. I am sure glad she is also persistent. We discovered some rot. Yes. Research showed that for a very brief period the factory stopped using sealant under end caps to ensure against rotting framework, oh, sometime around 1992!

Lo and behold, it was no surprise that our LD was not sealed under those end caps.  How do I know? These photos give you some idea of my investigation.

More to come...


edited topic title to be more descriptive - Michelle
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #1 –
Breaks my heart to look at those photos.  Your calm explanation is exceptional given the scope of the repair.  Wish you the best.
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #2 –
Calm? I was very excited. If not for this project I would have had to weed the garden! Why I love this project- everything I have run into so far is within my skill set (thanks Dad). My wife thinks I'm a genius, as a bonus.

The repair process went well. The best part, with every step I felt my old man's presence. He could do anything, (including recovering shot down B-24s behind the lines). I wish I was a better student.

Vince and the Internet, including this forum, were great resources for specific information. Once I learned the frame is basic, reconstruction was straightforward. The cutting and rebuilding isn't pretty, but is very, very solid. . I was sure to soak all the leftover wood with a borate solution, let it dry, treated what was left with epoxy, then pieced in wood with epoxy filler and 3M 5300 as adhesive.

Of course I added some additional insulation, a passageway LED in the back wall, and a couple 12v receptacles for charging. Inside I finished off with a cherry wood cabinet where the little shelf used to be. Terry Tanner talked me through installing his LED kit, and I gave it a quick coat of paint to get it road ready. Later this summer a good coat of paint that matches color is going on.

While I was in back working, my wife was up front removing valances and cleaning. I heard "Uh-Oh!", and knew I was in for another little job...
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #4 –
Must be something in the air.
Found this on the rear of friend's LD this morning.
Leaking end cap damage | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Leaking end caps allowed water into the walls and rotted the bottom of the rear wall, in the corners.
In a couple more years, it would have been as bad as yours.

Another place water gets in, in the rear, is around the rear windows.
The sealant can start breaking down in ten years or so.
In my experience, I see more rear corner cap and window leaks in the MB and T/Ks.
My guess is these two floor plans have a lot of glass in the corners and less supportive walls, which leads to increased flexing and twisting,  loosening the window frames and end caps. There is a lot of stress in the rear corners from many factors.

A message to all, keep those end caps intact and well sealed!

BTW, nice job on the reconstruction.
Rot repair is the most miserable type of repair work you could hope for.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #5 –
Thanks. I was lucky to not have damage at the bottom of the wall, still solid there. But in other places, well, not as lucky. Our model has a storage compartment inside the coach, under the fridge. I know many have an outside compartment there, where the batteries go. Our batteries are on the passenger side, under the dinette seat nearest the side door. A big compartment that holds Trojan T-145s, 260 amp hours of massive FLA goodness. 

Previous owners had the original fridge rebuilt, and it continues to work very well. But the effects of the failure may account for the rot found in the cabinet under the refrigerator . By now I was getting good at this, and was soon to become good at contortionism. This fix concluded the work to get it ready to roll. A few weeks of time, a few tubes of 5300, a few cans of paint, and a fortune in plastic end caps, and it was time to get with some upgrading!
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #6 –
Ingenious...love those clamps...very impressive!!
Ray
Now doing without...
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #7 –
Thanks all, the resource of this forum is priceless when working on my old coach. It is a project, so time and money are not the point. The running gear is all tip-top, so a bit of over-doing it on the house part is OK with us. Plenty more upgrades to come!
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #8 –
Paul.Banbury said, "The best part, with every step I felt my old man's presence. He could do anything, (including recovering shot down B-24s behind the lines). I wish I was a better student."

Indeed!  Thx for saying that so well.  As a little girl (he's been gone 20 years & with hindsight I realize I was still his "little girl" at 42) I thought my dad could do anything, but learned years later his foundation in welding/wiring/construction/plumbing/general mechanical "stuff" was FFA & a degree in vocational ag (though he only taught for a few years, before going into ag real estate).  He would have been a sponge on the internet & a forum like this, because he was so into life-long learning.  Unfortunately, with two girls, it was easier for him to do something than teach--and I think he expected there would always be a man around to take care of us as well as he took care of Mother.  So, when I get on his Ford SU tractor & putter around out at the farm, I also feel "my old man's presence...[and] wish I was a better student."   I have chuckled over the past few years about Dad looking down & shaking his head in disbelief about me on that tractor or the way I'm spending his money--LDY Lulubelle is the best thing that's happened in years...I love reading about the repairs & modifications people share on this site; I've grown more confident ("Gee, maybe I can try that"), while developing a clearer understanding of my limitations & resources to ask for help.   ;D   
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Finally getting around to putting photos on line
Reply #9 –
Quote from: paul banbury  - 
By now I was getting good at this, and was soon to become good at contortionism.
We refer to it as "mechanic's yoga".
It does wonders for your back and neck.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed
Reply #10 –
Yuck.  As most of you know, we've had quite the rainy winter here in California. Just discovered some wood rot today in the same location as Paul did, although mine is a 2002 rear bath.  The right side end cap had expanded loose, but since that's not supposed to be a wood rot cause on this "newer" model, I'm going to have to investigate further, but I fear that's the culprit.  The far left side of that interior shelf (toward the side of the loose end cap) is now soft.  :'(  On the rear bath, that shelf is just above the bathroom sink.  There are no leaks or water around the rear window.  But somehow, water is getting into the rear wall.

Of course, I don't have any of Paul's skills, so the only option I have for now is to seal any possible entries on the rear of the coach and then wait until I have the opportunity to get the rig back to the Mothership for repair. Planning on using Eternabond to seal the end caps, since it's been absolutely awesome on my roof, and Dichor non-leveling sealant on everything else.

Any thoughts or advice, of course, are much appreciated!!
2002 Rear Bath
Re: Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed
Reply #11 –
Your choice, of course, but if your plan is to take the rig to the factory for repair and re-sealing, I'd avoid using Eternabond on the end caps; the stuff is very difficult to remove! Removing the E-bond and other sealant and prepping the surfaces (and repairing water damage and rot) for a factory-done reseal will add quite a bit to the labor charges.

I can't offer a viable suggestion for a temporary solution other than "tarping"/covering the affected areas against further water intrusion until you can get the rig to the factory.  :(

As ever, YMMV.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed
Reply #12 –
Thanks, JCT!!  If I can't get to the factory for some time (it may be quite awhile) and do go ahead and seal everything so the leaks stop and the damage is contained, do I risk further damage if the rot stays in place for awhile?  There appears to be no structural impact. Thanks again for the help.  --Dan
2002 Rear Bath
 
Re: Photos of LD showing what happens when end caps aren't sealed
Reply #13 –
Temporary leak repairs over paint are a challenge.  There's racer's "100mph" tape which does stick, but I don't know what it does to the paint.  Gaffer's tape (from film shoot land) is good and sticky, and the adhesive is designed not to mar finishes.  It's good for months, even outside, but probably not years.  Available in many colors. 

3M 5200 is great goo, but hard to remove.    Maybe plain acrylic house caulk would work for temp repairs and allow removal down the road.

The best tape I've found for overall stick is the tape used for Tyvek house wrap -- made by Tyvek.  I haven't used it on a vehicle.  Standard duct tape adhesive dries up fairly quickly outside.

For temporary sealing of something that's going to be fixed soon-ish, we need to find the caulk equivalent of Post-It notes...

Chip
2000 Front Lounge