Gremlins in my backup lights?

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Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #25 – August 31, 2016, 11:30:58 am

Aw, those pesky Gremlins . . .

Gremlins

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #26 – August 31, 2016, 12:32:15 pm

Quote from: paul banbury - August 31, 2016, 11:07:53 am

Lynne, as the French say, bon courage!
I would soon rebuild an engine than deal with your lights issue. Electicity is something that makes me feel stupid. Enjoy Chanute, near where my parents were married.

Thx, Paul. I sorta understand a bit about electricity (the notion of open/closed circuits, conductivity of certain materials, H2O & electricity mix too well for the safety of organic lifeforms, my many limitations, etc.)--I'm really looking forward to Lydia's presentation at Ladeze. RE: electricity & H2O--I was on pins & needles when I was trying to plug in at the nice little Chanute RV park last night...raining cats & dogs

(with the 4-Legged Alarm going off inside the rig

)...I was fearful of a shocking life lesson & annoyed that it took three moves to find a pedestal that came on (but I wanted the AC enough to risk it

. Chanute is a really nice little town--I say little because like Chillicothe it's under 10,000 & within a two-hour drive to KC for big city fun, but given all the KS budget problems, this town seems to have a lot going for it: the industrial park (where KS RV & the Ford dealer are located) seems much better than ours in Chillicothe, they have a beautiful new high school, the FREE RV park, a nice-looking downtown, etc.

Thx, Ed--as Blanche Dubois said in A Streetcar Named Desire, "I have always depended upon the kindness of strangers." & am blest to have the resources to do what needs doing as I learn to keep in mind "It's the journey, not [just] the destination"..."and so it goes."

Lynne

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #27 – August 31, 2016, 09:49:39 pm

So no results from the tech snooping around today?! Geeze. I'm going to have fun!!

Sleep well.

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #28 – September 04, 2016, 06:01:15 pm

Though I've been on the site a couple of times the past day since I got to Denver, I'm finally gathering my thoughts while my aunt naps, to report on the gremlin infestation…sorry it's taken so long.

I must again sing the praises of Merle Kelly Ford in Chanute, KS. They worked for a day & a half trying to chase this all down, were really positive, & a pleasure to work with (in spite of the gremlins).

   They never came close to throwing up their hands & telling me to find an RV place to work on it. I'd actually asked KS RV when I first got to my plumbing appointment last Wednesday, & they had told me to go to Ford (because most heads thought it must surely be something to do with the Ford electrical system), so that RV place wasn't the answer, anyway.

After disconnecting the chassis battery, the house batteries (though not at the same time), the wiring harness at the frame rail junction block on the driver's side, the fuses under the hood, the fuses under the dash, tracing OEM wires, backup camera wires--there were no chewed/rubbed/worn/frayed wires…but the gremlins kept taunting us.   Grrrr--Arghhh!

I had offered a couple of times to let them read this whole discussion (at the beginning & midway through the search), but they just dove right in.   Lydia, you get the prize!

They finally found a wire to the backup lights that seemed to go somewhere--but no switch inside the pass through bay. I went inside to pull the mattress off the driver's side bunk, to see if we could find an easier access from the top (the plywood decking has a cutout at the base to access the 120 outlet at the foot, but the rest is screwed down), but after pulling off the mattress, before we started unscrewing the decking, I discovered an on/off toggle switch in the outside corner--in the ON position! Flipped that puppy to OFF & one problem was resolved. The only thing we could think of is I must have jiggled the switch when I was changing the bed linens

(I sleep in the curbside twin, but thought I was going to have company with me, so was changing the other side out for the first time in ages). There was still one gremlin--after everything was re-installed, the OEM reverse lamp was still not working correctly, but they traced that back to the power control module box under the hood, replaced that faulty relay, & voila--all gremlins have been exorcised.

I don't know which of LDy Lulubelle's previous families did that mod, but it's obviously not OEM--though I can see how it could be useful to have such bright lights available at the touch of a switch (though I might have considered a 3-way, with one in the pass through bin & one in a more visible spot inside).

I didn't even ask what their hourly shop fee was--this needed fixing & I trusted them--but to cap it all off, Jake (the service manager) discounted their shop fee.

I was expecting something in the neighborhood of $1000, given the approximately 10+ hours I think they were tied up with this. He only charged me $555.06--yes, a chunk of change, but something I couldn't have done myself…'til I found the switch under the bunk--& now I know what it's for.

So, my aunt will go to supper & then to bed here in a few hours, & the 4-Legged Alarm & I will get in a short leg as we head up I-25 out of Denver to Ladeze. Life is good--or as Ed says,

…and so it goes.

Lynne

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #29 – September 04, 2016, 06:22:37 pm

When one's home on wheels is working it seems that life just looks brighter. Well done Lynne. We're mighty pleased that this troubling issue(s) is resolved for you. And safe travels.

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #30 – September 04, 2016, 06:46:07 pm

Switched backup lights! I have never heard of such a thing, but my idea lightbulb immediately lit up! Supplemental rear yard lights- Do I dare?

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #31 – September 04, 2016, 07:07:45 pm

Great sleuthing, Lynne.

Had a supervisor tell me once, " Keep a notebook and write down everything you do during a repair". I never did and still don't. Now I take pictures

Sometimes we do things out of the ordinary that can haunt us down the line. Your Gremlins are a perfect example of that.

Next time something goes wrong with my LD I may kick myself for not taking notes.

Oh well, on to the next feature. I hope it's not Jaws.

Kent

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #32 – September 05, 2016, 01:25:59 pm

Putting an unlabeled light switch under a mattress has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever run across. Roll over in bed and find your batteries drained in the morning--great!

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #33 – September 05, 2016, 01:54:54 pm

Andy,

Once again you read my mind. I suppose if Lynne wanted to keep it there for "extra" lighting she may want to enclose it somehow. They do make toggle switches with flip covers that could be installed. Kinda like a booster rocket.

Light speed to Endore.

Kent

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #34 – September 05, 2016, 05:55:49 pm

Dear Wizards--

They're baaack..but moved! About 50 miles out of Rawlins, WY, I noticed the Check Engine light on. Grrrr-Arrgghhh!

Oil, Temp, & Battery gauges look OK (in the range my untrained eye is used to seeing them). I spent the night just north of Wellington CO then cut across to 287, which I took to I-80 at Laramie. The roads were good, but it seemed like western KS/eastern CO where there are long pulls up a hill, even though it looks like fairly gently rolling open country. I usually drive 55 with the cruise, & the RPMs are usually around 2000, sometimes up to 3000 when I'm climbing a hill. But it seemed like she was shifting so much, and frequently going all the way up to 4500 RPM, that I stopped using the cruise & thought perhaps the Tow-Haul would smooth things out a bit (I tried to re-read everything about mountain driving before I left, but it still seems like it's a gut feeling--at least my gut's not feeling too good about this).

And of course, it's Labor Day...good luck finding a mechanic. I needed to make a Walmart run, so she was off for about an hour in the parking lot (I almost bought some Incredible Hulk boxing gloves to give her a good pummelling

), & the light did not reset while she was waiting for me. Walmart gas: $2.09; the Shell & Sinclair stations across the street: $2.54. I'm at McD's for the internet & some carbs to calm my nerves; going to ask around about possible mechanic options.

Andy--I've only had someone sleep in that bed twice, with no problem--I think it was me dragging the mattress out to change the linens that must have caught the switch just right; I don't think general wiggling would get it...plus it's at the very head. But I am going to label it so it won't be a secret for someone in the future--from what I've seen on here, LDy Lulubelle will likely find a new family when my kids haul me off--but that will be a while since I qualify for my National Parks Pass today.

Kent--I could probably get by with a yogurt container

, but I like "Kinda like a booster rocket. Light speed to Endore." or perhaps something like Inspector Gadget or James Bond...take your pick.

Thx to all...still hoping to make it to Ladeze (without busting).

Lynne

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #35 – September 05, 2016, 07:04:15 pm

Lynne,

I try to avoid cruise control while climbing mountain roads. For me it makes the drive train work too hard. My foot does a better job in those instances.

I tend to use the tow haul if it's a "normal" grade. Steep inclines like those one might experience with 6% inclines I stay out of tow haul and stick to "picking" an appropriate gear for the climb (tow haul only works in drive anyway).

I hate check engine lights. They scare the heck out of me. Wish the darn thing would just tell me what I did wrong. Could be something as simple as a loose gas cap. There's always hope.

Keep us posted.

Kent

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #36 – September 05, 2016, 09:02:51 pm

Hi Lynne. Well this won't help you now, but I'll put in a recommendation for a Scangauge 2. Many of us have them. Mine is taped to the dash so I can read the RPM, water temperature and outside air temp, (no tachometer from Ford). It can also scan for trouble codes, and reset them. You do need an internet connection usually to look up the codes to find out what they mean. A friend of mine spent over $100 to have Honda read a check engine light on his vehicle. It was a loose gas cap. I've heard that some auto parts stores will read your codes for free (hoping to sell you a part). Maybe you could find one along the way. Hope this helps...RonB

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #37 – September 05, 2016, 10:35:12 pm

Here in the MidAtlantic states Advanced Auto Parts, a auto parts chain, will scan engine codes free. I don't know if the chain is national (think so but not sure).

That way if the issue is something simple you can pickup the part, install it and go. If it is more complicated it gives you something to tell friends.

That said, getting a Scanguage2 as as Ron suggested is a better solution.
John

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #38 – September 06, 2016, 06:56:32 pm

" after pulling off the mattress, before we started unscrewing the decking, I discovered an on/off toggle switch in the outside corner--in the ON position! Flipped that puppy to OFF & one problem was resolved. The only thing we could think of is I must have jiggled the switch when I was changing the bed linens "

I suggested looking for an back-up light, override switch, after finding a couple of them in other LDs.
Lots of 'mystery' switches and jerry-rigged wiring in older LDs. Our LD has hundreds of feet of added wiring, but the switches are located in easy to find places and the wiring installed to LD, or better, standards.

Whoever installed and hid your switch wasn't too bright.
Glad you found it.
Larry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #39 – September 09, 2016, 06:40:46 pm

Hello, & Thx to all who have followed this saga--

I tried to post from the McD's in Pocotello, but kept getting an error message, so am using the wifi at the Redfish Visitors' Ctr while here with the Ladeze (& having a grand time), & will give the update on the engine light, etc.

Hi, Wizards--

Finally did get to Ladeze & it's been a howling good time--good company, good food, good information!

A gentleman

in the McD's at Rawlins overheard my question about possible garage/mechanic options, & while everyone was shaking their heads, he shared that a local guy was open just a few blocks away--it was about 4:00 on Labor Day, so I boogied on over there.

They read the codes (more detail when I reread the computer printout, but something about a random misfire, misfire on #5??, and the O2 sensor). They reset the codes, sent me out to drive about 20 minutes with a section of road that would include some climbs that should cause the transmission to shift/etc. When I got back, with no light on, the gave me the printout, their opinion about the 7K altitude might be causing a leaner mixture (affecting the O2 sensor??), that I should use cruise on the open valley areas & the tow-haul when climbing ascents (I already understood creeping over the summits & being in 3 or 2 or L coming down)--& my ultimate go-to question, "Would you feel comfortable sending your grandma out?" was answered in the affirmative since the light had not come back on (the owner looked to be a Boomerish age like me, so his granny would have been really adventurous).

They also said I should put something called Seafoam in with every fill-up. And they charged me $75--but I know that's more than the five minutes the guy had his scanner plugged in & resetting the codes--it's also knowing enough to interpret the codes & give me information to make a semi-educated decision (stay for more evaluation or head on down the road & see what happens).

I made it into Kammerer, WY, that night; slept in the hospital parking lot, & headed on up US 30 the next morning. Should have gotten gas there ($2.15), because when I filled up in Pocotello, it was $2.45, & now $2.79 in Stanley

).

Yes, I've been considering a ScanGauge as I read all the discussions on here, but figured I'd still have to find a mechanic to interpret the data...at least 'til I've graduated to a level of Apprentice Wizard-2-B

. I've learned so much from all the Ladeze this week--technical/electrical/canine…Thx Larry & Joan for your lists to Lauralee--and EMS is the next thing on my list.

Ed, I love your tag--and so it goes.

Lynne

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #40 – September 10, 2016, 12:31:15 pm

Lynne, I had a similar experience a couple years ago pulling a RV trailer in my '04 Tahoe. We were on Hwy 168 headed up to Shaver Lake. Between Prather and Shaver Lake there is an 7 percent grade for 11 miles. About three-quarters of the way up that grade, the check engine light came on - oh oh! I did not have a way to read the code either so was blessed to find Fat Boys garage who read the code for no charge! Shout out: Fat Boys Garage - Auto Parts & Supplies - 41579 Dinkey Creek Rd, Shaver...

Short story is that my Tahoe was not tuned to climbing higher elevations pulling a 6000 lb. trailer! They reset the engine light and we had no further issues on our camping trip.

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #41 – September 10, 2016, 01:15:49 pm

Lynne

Odds are the problem will return since the shop did nothing to it, beside clearing codes.
If you have the codes available, an educated guess could be made to the cause.

High altitudes, if anything, would result in a rich fuel/air mixture, not lean.
Seafoam is nothing more than solvent in a can, it is't going to cure your problem. They suggested adding it to possibly keep the injectors clean.
The use of Top Tier gas eliminates this need since it contain injector cleaners. If you insist on using a fuel injection additive, try Chevron Techron, in the recommend amount for your size tank.
Our LD gets this treatment once a year, usually buying a six-pack of Techron at Costco.

FYI, your V10 is happy to cruise uphill at 4000+ RPM, it is designed for this type of operation.

Larry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #42 – September 10, 2016, 06:42:10 pm

Well I myself am a big believer in seafoam..because for me it has been successful.

I am sure there are others just as good.

As far as the misfire Mode 6 on ford is a great tool. This is a bit techie but you can see that you can have several misfires before you set a code. In your case it seems as if it set a code so you had considerable misfires. Which confirms that it will more than likely repeat.

Mode 6 Misfire Diagnostics - Ford

The mode 6 misfire count on Most fords is reset after every ignition switch turn on and off.
The following is a quote..from Revisiting OBD II's Missing Mode — Mode

"On some vehicles (Ford mostly), all the Mode $06 data is erased and reset to zero when the ignition is turned off. On others, it simply picks up where it left off when the engine starts."

Garry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #43 – September 11, 2016, 12:49:17 pm

Gosh, I was excited to find a possible test mode for ignition misfire....but our 2003 E450 (chassis built Aug 8, 2002) doesn't seem to have this mode, when looked at with a decent scanner. Not a single $06 mode to be found. Darn.
The 2002 Expedition, mentioned in the link, most likely has different smog regulations and controls, something that a much heavier, truck-like vehicle may not be required to have.
Emission regulations change according the the year, weight and class of the vehicle.

I might check a few newer LDs, next weekend in Ventura at the LD Caravan Club GTG, to see if this mode is installed in later E450 models, it would be a handy diagnostic tool.

Larry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #44 – September 11, 2016, 04:05:36 pm

Quote from: Larry Wade - September 11, 2016, 12:49:17 pm

Gosh, I was excited to find a possible test mode for ignition misfire....but our 2003 E450 (chassis built Aug 8, 2002) doesn't seem to have this mode, when looked at with a decent scanner. Not a single $06 mode to be found. Darn.
The 2002 Expedition, mentioned in the link, most likely has different smog regulations and controls, something that a much heavier, truck-like vehicle may not be required to have.
Emission regulations change according the the year, weight and class of the vehicle.

I might check a few newer LDs, next weekend in Ventura at the LD Caravan Club GTG, to see if this mode is installed in later E450 models, it would be a handy diagnostic tool.

Do you have an android device I would be happy to send the cheap bluetooth scanner I use for Mode 6 readouts. As I mentioned they reset on every startup so are only good while driving or before you shut the vehicle off, but are a great aid when you have intermittent misses under load..

Garry

Larry

Larry every ford I have ever checked in that vintage has mode 6 but I only have a couple of scan tools that read them properly and surprisingly one of them is a cheap bluetooth scanner using the Torque app on android. Also the obd pro usb scanner with software from GLM in Australia worked on my 2004. However that same scanner wouldn't even connect to my workhorse chassis(2003 model) and they never could find the cause. Supposedly the data is a requirement of the obd2 spec but is implemented differently on different vehicles.
Garry

Quote from: Garry Foster - September 11, 2016, 04:00:46 pm

Larry every ford I have ever checked in that vintage has mode 6 but I only have a couple of scan tools that read them properly and surprisingly one of them is a cheap bluetooth scanner using the Torque app on android. Also the obd pro usb scanner with software from GLM in Australia worked on my 2004. However that same scanner wouldn't even connect to my workhorse chassis(2003 model) and they never could find the cause. Supposedly the data is a requirement of the obd2 spec but is implemented differently on different vehicles.
Garry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #45 – September 11, 2016, 10:58:42 pm

Larry,
What tool are you using? The scan gauge might not read the mode $6 diagnostic but should see misfires. I monitor misfires on my 97, PID 22160e on my e350, which is not part of the mode 6... I'm still troubleshooting a misfire every now and then on cylinder #6 under load and high temps. I currently use the torque app on Android but I have seen the same advanced diagnostics in other Android software. It took me a while to find what the different mode 6 codes are and many of them do not work on my 97 with a get valve.

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #46 – September 14, 2016, 01:24:27 pm

I have decent scanner but could not find the $6 mode. Then I realize that our 2003 LD (built Aug 8, 2002) is the older OBDI system, not OBDII. The OBDI classification is indicated by a plate on the door.
Not sure what year the E450 was changed to OBDII. It shows misfires only if a code is set.

I do have a Torque Command OBDII app and sender, if i can find it. It didn't work at all in my Jeep, upsetting the computer, causing it to set an a CEL code and putting the engine into the failsafe, limp-home mode. Nice.
I will have to find it a give it a shot with the LD, being able to 'see' active misfires would be useful.

Larry

Re: Gremlins in my backup lights?

Reply #47 – September 14, 2016, 03:47:13 pm

"....being able to 'see' active misfires would be useful."
---
I've seen plenty of "active misfires" in my lifetime! (Code reader not required!)

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Reply #25 – August 31, 2016, 11:30:58 am

Reply #26 – August 31, 2016, 12:32:15 pm

Reply #27 – August 31, 2016, 09:49:39 pm

Reply #28 – September 04, 2016, 06:01:15 pm

Reply #29 – September 04, 2016, 06:22:37 pm

Reply #30 – September 04, 2016, 06:46:07 pm

Reply #31 – September 04, 2016, 07:07:45 pm

Reply #32 – September 05, 2016, 01:25:59 pm

Reply #33 – September 05, 2016, 01:54:54 pm

Reply #34 – September 05, 2016, 05:55:49 pm

Reply #35 – September 05, 2016, 07:04:15 pm

Reply #36 – September 05, 2016, 09:02:51 pm

Reply #37 – September 05, 2016, 10:35:12 pm

Reply #38 – September 06, 2016, 06:56:32 pm

Reply #39 – September 09, 2016, 06:40:46 pm

Reply #40 – September 10, 2016, 12:31:15 pm

Reply #41 – September 10, 2016, 01:15:49 pm

Reply #42 – September 10, 2016, 06:42:10 pm

Reply #43 – September 11, 2016, 12:49:17 pm

Reply #44 – September 11, 2016, 04:05:36 pm

Reply #45 – September 11, 2016, 10:58:42 pm

Reply #46 – September 14, 2016, 01:24:27 pm

Reply #47 – September 14, 2016, 03:47:13 pm

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