Log In | Register
Skip to main content
Topic: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit (Read 35 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160240
Not to belittle or in anyway minimize the suffering and damage of a refrigerator fire I have a couple of thoughts.
One -- has any LD refrigerator ever caught on fire? Two -- quoting from lawsuit "3000 since 1997 out of 'millions' ". Since 1997 there has been around 6750 days. That figures out to a refrigerator fire every 2 to 3 days.

I'll leave the judgement on the numbers to the list.

Glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160241
Refrigerator fires may be the reason why more RVs are coming without a propane system.
Instead of improving the appliances and plumbing, manufacturers can escape the liability problem by switching to safer electrics.
Real practical for Boondocking. Solar cooking anyone ?

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160245
Yup, mine made the recall,(1997 model), not a big deal, they installed a heat shield by the propane flame area. Took maybe 15 minutes for them to install it;

Don
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160249
Many of us who own early to mid-2000 LDs had a recall on our LD's Dometic refrigerators.
Domestic didn't fix the problem with the poor tubing, instead, a shield was installed that was supposed to contain the hydrogen gas and keep it from burning the RV.

We affectionately call it "The band-aid".

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160252
As Larry said, the recall on some models of Dometic refrigerators has been around for several years; the first recall was for specific models made from 1997 through 2003. Dometic expanded the recall to include the same modesl built from 2003 through 2006; I suspect that Dometic issued the recall in two parts so their "authorized repair centers" would have enough of the cheap sheet metal band-aid kits on hand when unhappy customers showed up for the CYA "fix".

The only thing that I can see that the "shield" accomplishes is to get in the way of accessing the burner and anything else behind it; what I *can't* see is how the band-aid would keep a coolant leak from contacting the hot burner tube and/or the flame and causing a fire.

A search will bring up a lot of information on this topic, including serial numbers of those refrigerators in the original recalls.

As always, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160257
Ed,

Thanks for the link to the recall. My Dometic, made in Sweden, was on the recall list and has not had the kit installed yet. My local RV technician checked with Dometic after finding the kit has not been installed. The kit is being shipped to Lake Havasu City, AZ and will be installed in a few days - About five weeks before I leave for points east and north!

Fred

2003 RB
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160265
I see that Fred K. has noticed that his Dometic unit was made in Sweden. Dometic was making these fridges in maybe five countries when I last researched this subject, which has been a while. That does not mean that the parts were made in those countries. Lack of information about where parts are made is problematic across the manufacturing spectrum. Anything Made in America might only be assembled in America with parts from somewhere else. Same problem with the Made in the USA claim.

My problem will always be with the tubing. It is cast, which is an inexact process. Add to that an inferior metal composition, such as China and other countries have a history of slipping into the mix, and you have an uneven surface inside the tubing where there will be thin spots. The caustic chemicals eventually leak through the weak areas, poisoning the air and floating down onto, and eating through, the coating on the wiring along the floor behind the fridge, causing a short. Fire. That's what happened to us.

The tubing in my most recent Dometic versus that in the failed Norcold appears thicker, but that just might be something applied to the outside of the tubing to make it appear more substantial, but not really be more substantial. Take care.

s/Terry Apple
Terry Apple
2013 RB 27 Baby Blue Bentley
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160267
I see that Fred K. has noticed that his Dometic unit was made in Sweden.
---- The place of manufacture may have been an assumption based on the fact that the Dometic Group is headquartered in Sweden. There are probably several actual locations of parts manufacture and asembly for all of Dometic's products. The company website states this: "Dometic operates 22 manufacturing/assembly sites in Americas, EMEA and APAC." (Europe, Middle East, Africa and Asia-Pacific).

Our Company - Our Company - Dometic

Parts for Dometic refrigerators (and every other Dometic-branded product) may be manufactured in several different countries, and the final assembly done in several others! One *might* even be Sweden! ;-)

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160287
The refrigerator fire issue I find so interesting having a career as electrical engineer involved in manufacturing, marketing, and intellectual property with a process automation company. Asbestos use by the mega corporation I worked for many years in Industrials Boilers came very close to bankrupting a 30 Billion Dollar company.

I know this is controversial topic as I have read hundreds of posts on this topic. I've concluded it is an individual judgement call for each person as to level of risk they are comfortable with. I do not currently do a lot of boondocking off the grid camping but I can understand the need for a propane fired refrigerator for dry camping. Not that the risk goes away powering refrigerator with the electric heater at camp sites.

My plan is to pretty much stop using the refrigerator for the one week family vacations with wife and two young adult kids who join us. I'll lug an ice cooler just as we did for 15 years in our VW camper. Without kids, I'll take higher risk if I go off grid so I've ordered the ARP monitoring system with fan controller. I might also install refrigerator compartment SS-30 Halon Fire Extingusiher (although I'm not convinced it would work to put out such a fire). I'd much rather invest in solutions that prevent a fire in the first palce. If I ever replace my 2001 low use refrigerator, I would go with the higher quality Amish Unit. I'd consider residenual compressor refrigerator but I'd need a major electrical converter power update.

I don't think this problem goes away for Dometic and Norcold any time soon. The Dometic recall seems like a bandaid to a flawed design. There really is no excuse for Dometic and Nordcold to not beef up the tubing hardware and design with a improved safety montoring of these refrigerators. RV manufactures should also better shield and isolate the outside boiler / AC venting. Just seems like a cost cutting race to the bottom. I'd guess older units pre-global economy might be higer quality?. But we did not have an internet to get together and discuss fires caused by refrigerator fires. Is there a 100 or 3000 fires a year - I don't know. But definitely where there is smoke there is fire. There are certainly enough fires that this is a big problem.

Manuafactures cannot assume that all customers will fully understand the use of their products and have to build in safety especially in products that have a flame. Or don't plan on being in business too long. Customers are use safe home compressor refrigerators. Yes, customer maintenance is key and so is operating refrigerator system in a level RV. Inspect for fire damage or over heating near boiler, look for yellow staining. React fast to a smell of amonina. Poor refrigerator performance is a clue something might be haywire. And keep a working smoke detectors, etc. But exactly how do you check for crystilization inside the tubing of your refrigerator? And how do you know with a used RV that the tubing has not already been over heated several time by the previous owner and already weaken your system increasingthe possibility of future failure/ fire.

Manufacturing a safe refrigerator is certinaly possible and not be cost prohibative. Dometic and Nordcold should only be rolling out improved more robust models with improved safety monitoring. I see future recalls to lower risks. Really surprised they are not more aggressively updating new products and recalling existing products. Lawyers are not going to go away until they do. But sad it's all about money and not a genuine concern for safety of customers.

Just my two cents and view of this issue. It's really worth a good read on this topic to draw your own conclusions and decide the level of risk you are willing to accept.
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160288
The last Dometic recall was ten(10) years ago.
Could it be that they resolved the issue being discussed?

Ed
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160296
Question .... Is there any known LD refrigerator fires?

It would seem to me this problem would be universal to the world. I find it hard to believe the EU, England, and Sweden would turn a blind eye to death and destruction in their countries. We, USA, are very lightly regulated in the RV area, those other countries are not.

Glen.
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160338
'Question .... Is there any known LD refrigerator fires?"

Glen

I can't remember hearing about any refrigerator fires, cause by a leaking boiler.
With the sheet metal "bandaid", leaking gas is contained and, if burning, is surrounded in a metal enclosed space.
What worries me more, and is a major cause of fires, are propane leaks. I have found a few over then years.
The most frightening case was when I noticed soot above the water heater cover, on a friend's LD.
Opening the access door, I could feel, and almost not see, a very tiny flame at the point where the propane line connected to the heater's propane valve. The inside of the water heater's interior was covered in soot.

So, what to do? Have the propane system tested at least annually for leaks. I use a manometer, both a manual and electronic type. With a calibrated manometer, you can also check for the proper operating pressure.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/albums/72157667936301036

Leak detecting liquids, just very thick soaps, are available in home centers, found in the plumbing department.
Paint all propane fittings, with liquid, to detect very small leaks and wait for the bubbles to form. Some bubbles can take hours to form.
Electronic explosive gas detectors can also be very useful for getting to hard to access areas.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160341
Got a 404 on your manometer photo link on Flickr, Larry! ???

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
 
Re: Refrigerator Dying or Reborn? Major Law Suit
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160370
Larry,

I've never seen an LD that had a refrigerator fire, but did see a Winnie that had experienced it; not pretty.

In the 2007 / 2008 time frame this forum had many threads relating to the Dometic recall and to the tendency of the kit installers to be very secretive about the whole thing. (I know that I am repeating something that I posted before, but I am too lazy to search out the number of the previous message.)

I had the "bandaid" installed in my Dometic (2005 LD) in the summer of 2008 by a tech in Traverse City, MI. He was very open about it all and I helped him do the work (Held the shield parts in place while he drilled pilot holes for the screws.) He showed me a couple of refrigerators that had burned and he had replaced; a Dometic and one Norcold. Both Dometic and Norcold had this problem in the mid-2000's and issued recall notices; Dometic installed the "bandaid' while Norcold replaced the entire cooling unit. IMHO this made Norcold appear to be the most "customer oriented" company. Per this tech, the two refrigerators were designed by the same person who was an independent contractor and did not work for either company. In 2011 this refrigerator started leaking yellow coolant and I had to replace it with an equivalent model Domentic. The new refrigerator had the "kit" built in. It was also a "value engineered' product and the overall construction was much cheaper.

Yes, the "shield" part of the kit was intended to contain any fire. I thought that the most important part of the kit was the new wiring. I don't remember all of the details, but there was one wire that came down beside the "heater stack" and ran along the floor of the refrigerator compartment. The wire was a "heat sensitive link" that would break if subjected to fire. When broken, the link disabled DC power to the gas valve, shutting off the propane to the burner. The rationale was that the leaking yellow refrigerant dropped to the bottom of the refrigerator compartment, near the gas valve and heater, and this is where the fires started.

It is interesting that this subject should come to the surface again. My current coach (not an LD) has a Norcold N8 series refrigerator. I just received a notice that a class action suit against Norcold for the "coolant leakage" problem in N6, N8 and 1200 Series refrigerators is reaching the settlement stage. The construction of my Norcold is just as cheap as that of the new Dometic I acquired in 2011. In fact Norcold refrigerators have a few other problems. One specifically is that they tend to break the lower door hinge. Norcold has known about this problem since 2006. Their only corrective action has been to create a "kit" that helps support the lower hinge. They sell it for about $40. This problem is acerbated by RV manufacturer's who replace the plastic door inserts with wooden inserts that match the RV's cabinets.

Doug