LD Won't Turn Over March 18, 2016, 10:45:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159444Went to the farm this afternoon to bring LDy Lulubelle into town to prep for an outing. She has successfully lived in an enclosed machine shed--no heat/no electricity--between outings. I was there about two weeks ago to exercise the generator, and parked her outside for a couple of sunny days...the batteries were down to about 50% but were back up to 100% when I put her back in the shed.Today, the remote keyfob wouldn't unlock the driver's door. Thinking the battery was down in the keyfob, I used the key to open the door, which set off the alarm system (all the bells & whistles & flashing headlights). The center domelight also came on, but when I turned the key in the ignition there was no action from the engine (no starter grinding, etc.--just silence under the hood). The alarm system continued to screech & the domelight remained on, with the dash display also lighting up when the key was turned.The monitor for the house batteries said they were at 77% & there is a trickle connection under the hood that I thought was supposed to keep the battery healthy. The battery was replaced on the way back from Ladeze in October, but thinking maybe there was enough juice to run what was screeching & lighting up, but not start the engine, I tried to jump her with the tractor (black to black/red to red) & had something I'd never had in forty years of using jumper cables--flames on the black post of the tractor battery...I quickly disconnected the cables & shut the tractor down. I guess I didn't kill the tractor, because I was able to restart it & return it to its nest.Dear Wizards--thoughts on why the LD isn't starting...possible remedies/solutions...what damage should I look for on the LD after the flaming tractor battery...Many thanks for the knowledge, experience, & wisdom out there.Lynne, in north Missouri, where the buds on my peach tree are in danger because of the freeze warning for tonight & tomorrow night A sadly unresponsive LDy Lulubelle, '05 30' TB Lilly, 4-Legged Alarm (currently Alarming because something is outside in the yard)
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #1 – March 19, 2016, 01:09:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 159448Unless you want to do a lot of testing with a VOM the quickest solution would be to replace the engine battery.You could remove the battery and try to charge it.This doesn't explain why the alarm system would work but it does seem like the positive battery terminal is shorted to ground, or was when you tried to jump it.These are just guesses. Harry
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #2 – March 19, 2016, 01:41:36 am Yahoo Message Number: 159451LynneSince the lights and other electrical assesories work, good chance the starting battery is OK and something is preventing the starter from getting the power to spin or engage. How's the rodent population in your barn? They love to nibble on wires under the hood.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157628789839867/Look to see if the small wires, on the starter solenoid, are still there. If so, trace them back into the larger wire bundles, to make sure nothing is missing. After that, check any fusing related to the starting circuit, wiggle or swap the starter relay, located in with the fuse. Electrical problems can be difficult to solve when there in person, just about impossible to do remotely. This where an inexpensive multimeter, and a little knowledge, can go a long way to solving the mystery.Larry
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #3 – March 19, 2016, 01:42:31 am Yahoo Message Number: 159452Thanks, Harry--didn't occur to me to pull the battery00that's why extra brains are so helpful. I bought it at an O'Reilly's in Colorado, & we have one here in town, so that's a good suggestion.I am still puzzled about the alarms/lights/etc.--if "...the positive battery terminal is shorted to ground..." there was no change in in the symptoms after the misadventure with the tractor, with the alarms/lights/etc. acting the same before & after.Lynne
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #4 – March 19, 2016, 10:43:21 am Yahoo Message Number: 159454There's obviously enough juice in the battery to power the other stuff, so the starter is most likely the weak link. They get stuck / go for a beer sometimes especially on older vehicles that have sat for awhile.*If the wiring for the starter looks okay, try whomping the starter motor with a baseball bat or something similar and see if that brings it back to life. One whack is enough, don't go all out and reduce it to shards as that will defeat the purpose. Live and learn.Sounds like the little coin battery in the fob may have died if it wouldn't disarm and unlock the cab. I'd say that symptom is a coincidence only.fu----- * I drove more than my share of cars that were "past their prime" during my misspent youth that needed occasional "percussive maintenance" to ensure a clean getaway.
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #5 – March 19, 2016, 11:04:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 159456"Today, the remote keyfob wouldn't unlock the driver's door. Thinking the battery was down in the keyfob, I used the key to open the door, which set off the alarm system..."With most vehicles, if you lock with the remote, you must also UNlock that way, or it will set off the alarm or at least disable the ignition.Find out why the remote did not work, then lock with the remote.... then Unlock with it. See if all works now.Steve
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #6 – March 19, 2016, 01:37:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159464I like Larry's idea of ruling out rodent damage. Also with a weak - but not dead battery you'll have enough power to run some things but not others. Things like the radio and some dash gauges will work with very low power from the battery. As compared to the dash, things like the door locks and the electronic ignition use a lot of power.Did you attach jumper cables and try to start that way? When the cables were attached did the electric door locks work but the car not start? If yes some times you need to let the battery charge some before starting the car. The why behind that is electronic ignition systems store power in a capacitor and then release the power. Let the battery charge a few minutes before trying to start the RV.Because you had the battery recently changed you might check the battery terminals. Even new batteries grow weak with bad connections. Make sure the cables are secure and not loose. Make sure there the terminals are not become corroded over the winter - don't get the white powder on your clothes. If there is corrosion, a can of Coke will clean the terminals. After making sure the cables are tight (if there is corrosion they will be a little loose) go to the store you talked about and have them put grease on posts. If someone installed the battery that should have been done. John
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #7 – March 19, 2016, 02:01:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159465Many thanks to Harry, Larry, Fu, & Steve.Looks like I'm off to further my "learning by doing" education...rabbit holes can be very interesting with a bit of guidance. Follow-up to come when I know more.Lynne. with a sad peach tree in north Missouri--28 degrees this morning LDY Lulubelle, '05 30' TB--sadly waiting in the shed Lilly, 4-Legged Alarm--currently in snooze mode
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #8 – March 19, 2016, 06:07:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159472Lynne,My previous coach was a 2005 MB and I had an unfortunate experience where the E-450 actions were somewhat similar to those you experienced. While headed home to CA from MI our cab A/C stopped working. With 100K miles on the coach I figured that the A/C compressor clutch had failed; a very common failure. Decided that we would continue to CA and get it fixed at home and didn't think about it again.One afternoon, in the middle of NM, I stopped for gas. When I tried to start the LD, the engine would not roll over. I did not get the any sound. Road service came and tried to jump start the LD with their "portable battery pack." No go, so they fired up the big charger on the service truck and tried to jump start me again. This charger could deliver a lot more current. Still no go. I was towed to the nearest Ford garage.I only took the Ford service tech a couple of minutes to analyze the problem. When my A/C died, the compressor clutch failed in the engaged position. It was still connected to the engine's serpentine belt and was trying to run. The compressor also suffered internal problems so that it would not spin easily. On the engine's serpentine belt you could see marks of belt slippage. Eventually the rotor of the compressor completely froze. The added drag kept the engine from turning over. The Ford tech told me that he had seen this problem several times.The Ford tech removed the A/C compressor and tried to start the engine. No go. He then removed the starter and found that it had been completely fried; the result of trying to jump start the engine. The starter would not even run on the test bench.The Ford tech placed the A/C compressor, and related "filter," and the starter. He then tried to start the engine. It would hardly start. He then did "charge/discharge" tests of the battery and found that it was not doing very well. I had the battery replaced too. Evidently starting the engine with the added load and trying to jump start, mistreated the battery and gave it some major issues.I was very fortunate as this Ford Service Manager let me stay on the shop floor with the technician. I even helped him with some of the tests. In short, what first appeared to be a simple problem turned out to be a very expensive job.My word to you: Make very sure that a "dead" battery is the reason that your engine will not roll over. A dead battery will usually have enough life to run a few minor things, but cannot deliver enough current to make the starter run. However, even with a "dead" battery you will usually hear a "grunt" from the engine or the clicking of the starter relays. I suspect that your alarm system, dash lights and dome light could get enough current to operate. The reason that you could not open the doors with the remote "button" fob is because the battery would not deliver enough current too operate the door lock mechanism. (Lucky it is not a Honda CRV. On the CRV, maybe all Hondas, if the battery is dead, even the "physical key turning" will not unlock things. The "key" is not mechanical, but actuates a couple of pushbuttons which function the same as the "remote button fob.")Good luck,Doug
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #9 – March 26, 2016, 05:13:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 159596You mentioned "Today, the remote keyfob wouldn't unlock the driver's door. Thinking the battery was down in the keyfob, "I used the key to open the door, which set off the alarm system" (all the bells & whistles & flashing headlights). The center domelight also came on, but when I turned the key in the ignition there was no action from the engine (no starter grinding, etc.--just silence under the hood). The alarm system continued to screech & the domelight remained on, with the dash display also lighting up when the key was turned. When you set off the Alarm system by opening the door with the key you also Disabled the engine. It's a Saftey measure so no one can start your car when Alarm is on. Somehow you have to fix the clicker that turns on and off the Alarm. Im sure eveything is fixed by now. Just a heads up to everyone if this ever happens to you that's the problem..JO
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #10 – April 06, 2016, 09:56:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 159712Lynn,Mid March you posted about problems you were having getting your LD started. You even had flames around a tractor battery you were trying to jump start from.Have you resolved the problems? Can you share info about the problem and the solution?Steve K
LD Won't Turn Over Reply #11 – April 08, 2016, 12:01:23 am Yahoo Message Number: 159777Hi, Steve--Thx for thinking of me. I'd not posted a follow-up because we had some cold weather that took puttering in the unheated machine shed off my to-do list, & I've had a few other hitches in my life, so hadn't gotten back out there. The tractor seemed OK at the time (I had immediately turned it off & disconnected the cables when I had the flames, but it started right up with no problem when I wanted to move it back into its nest in another part of the shed).My first next thing to do is get the battery in the key fob checked/replaced at the Ford dealership here in town. I also googled & read up on the solenoid & starter-whacking recommendations, & have a friend who taught me how to change the oil in the tractor as a resource, so that would be next. The last option would be to have Coachnet drag the sorry thing into town to the Ford shop...I'll certainly post what I know when I know...thx, again.Lynne A sad LDy Lulubelle, '05 30' TB Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm (currently snoring beside me)
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #12 – April 09, 2016, 12:48:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 159801Whoo-hoo...Yippee-Skippee...& Hallelujah!Those several helpful souls who zeroed in on the keyfob disabling the system win the Car Talk "Stump the Chumps" prize...though it initially had Brian at the Ford parts desk stumped, too (there was apparently enough juice in the little coin battery to light the green indicator on the fob). Another discovery--Brian had mentioned when I first gave him the fob at the dealership that it wasn't a Ford fob (& bless his little "Y" chromosome heart, asked me at least three times if I had the right key)--apparently one of LDy Lulubelle's previous families had swapped out her Ford factory remote keyfob/security system for a Viper system (Brian did point out the word Viper on the fob that I'd not even noticed in the two+ years I'd been driving her).Turns out Brian lives down the road & around the corner from the farm, & he offered to stop by on his way home. His first thought was to disconnect the chassis battery to reset the system...but the alarm system apparently draws power from somewhere else (house batteries??), because that sucker kept going off--loud enough to wake the dead! Finally, as a last resort, Brian swapped out the keyfob battery (he'd brought one along...just in case...but he didn't think that was really the problem) & "Voila" everything is happy again.Thx, again, for all the brainstorming & telemedicine diagnostics for my sick baby. We're all smiles again here in north Missouri...except that they're calling for a hard freeze again tonight--not looking good for my single-tree peach crop.Lynne LDy Lulubelle, '05 30' TB Lilly, the snoring 4-Legged AlarmP.S.--Larry, I did also follow your suggestion to check about winter visitors chewing on wires & found nada. I want to give credit to Jeanne Bold's recommendation for the balsam oil botanical she recommended at the Ladeze gathering in Utah last fall--no signs of critters under the hood, inside, or in the compartments where I put the packets.
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #13 – April 09, 2016, 08:50:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 159807Congratulations Lynne!I guess your rig had an aftermarket alarm system that included an ignition disabler. You might want to try to find more info from the alarm company to find out if there is a way to manually override the alarm system if your remote dies again.Steve K.
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #14 – April 09, 2016, 12:03:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159812Steve K.--"...try to find more info from the alarm company to find out if there is a way to manually override the alarm system if your remote dies again."Thx for that suggestion...much better than trying to have the local Ford guys chase that rabbit any further.Lynne A happy LDy Luliubelle, '05 30' TB Lillym the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #15 – April 09, 2016, 12:23:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159814Would it be worthwhile to stock an extra battery in a handy (and designated) place? Until used, batteries seem to have a far-in-the-future expiration date, and perhaps several different items would take the same size battery, so a small stash might come in handy.Possibilities:Small plastic container in your RV tool box and/or in the tool area in your barn?Miscellaneous drawer in your kitchen?Plastic snack bag in a zippered compartment of your purse?The next problem? How to remember where that stash is. Ill leave it to others to suggest possibilities! ;->Virtual hugs,Judie Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West
Re: LD Won't Turn Over Reply #16 – April 10, 2016, 11:44:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159847"Would it be worthwhile to stock an extra battery in a handy (and designated) place?"Good thought, Judie. The battery for the keyfob is about the size of a dime. I don't know how available they are, outside of a dealership (O'Reilly's/Walmart/??). Now that I've gained this bit of education, the troubleshooting may go more quickly the next time there's a defugilty (because, LOL, I'm sure there will be more misadventures in my future)--& perhaps prove helpful to another who may encounter similar symptoms. It's one thing to be six miles out of town at the farm with alternate transportation & helpful neighbors, as opposed to the back of beyond with no toad. A spare seems like another of those "cheap insurance" moments...thx, again.Lynne LDy Lulubelle, '04 30' TB Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
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