12 Volt CPAP March 11, 2016, 06:04:38 am Yahoo Message Number: 159309The CPAP market looks very confusing to me. Many vendors and many terms that are not familiar to me. I smell snake oil.My question to this forum is how many amps do these suckers draw? Will you look at your machine and email me the amps or watts rating and voltage.If you have a 12 volt machine, are you happy with it?What do I need to know?My address is dmalpas at gmail.com. No sense in clogging up the forum with too many non-LD responses.Thanks.
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #1 – March 11, 2016, 09:52:08 am Yahoo Message Number: 159312Good Morning, I use a machine from Respironics. The system is a 12 volt system, it has a power module that converts AC to DC. So, I just purchased an accessory cable that has a standard 12 volt auto connector (like the cigarette lighter) and right connector for the CPAP on the other end. I then installed one of those cigarette outlet near "headboard", works great. The converter is a 60 watt unit, the output is 12 volts at 5.0 amps. The CPAP quotes 12 Volts at 6.67 amps. I do not know what the unit really draws, I would be concerned if dry camping for a few days, but have never done that with the CPAP. I have no problems while hooked up to shore power. Hope that helps.
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #2 – March 11, 2016, 10:22:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 159313I'm going to hyjack this thread. This question comes up often, so please post the power usage of your CPAP here. Do indicate if your machine produces moist or dry air. Also, does it run on 12-volts or 120-volts, used with an inverter.Larry
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #3 – March 11, 2016, 11:38:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 159316The CPAP quotes 12 Volts at 6.67 amps. I do not know what the unit really draws, I would be concerned if dry camping for a few days, but have never done that with the CPAP.Holy Moly! If that's a continuous draw, I don't have 50AH for it. We primarily dry camp. We might use 50-60 amps running the furnace, but that's rare. I could not stack another 50AH on top of it.So far, I have heard about one device, a Philips Respironics System One REMstar Auto A-Flex CPAP that uses 1A with the heater off and 10A with the heater on.I favor devices that run on 12volts.
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #4 – March 12, 2016, 02:45:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 159321cool_delta_mike said, "The CPAP market looks very confusing to me. Many vendors and many terms that are not familiar to me. I smell snake oil."Thanks for another take on what, for me, remains a "very confusing" topic, given my marginal mechanical/electrical literacy. I hope I can learn enough from this discussion to make an educated decision--'cause right now I'm pretty clueless.Because insurance does not reimburse for power supply adapters, my equipment supplier will neither procure one for me (even though I'd pay out of pocket + their markup), nor recommend a vendor, simply telling me to "go online." Confused by the "smell [of] snake oil," I've done without the CPAP (since I generally boondock) for the 5-10 days I'm gone at a time...leading to a return of the apnea symptoms (GRRR).I have a Phillips Respironics System One REMstar A-Flex SleepMapper with a humidifier (though I don't use the humidifier). The back of the unit says: 12V (volt?) __ 6.67A (amps?) ---The power cord plugs into a (110 volt?) wall outlet, with a standard cord leading to a brick (inverter/converter?), on the back of which is: 60W (watts?) 100-240V (volts?) ~ 50/60 Hz (hertz?), 2.1A 12V (volts?) __ 5.0A (amps?) The polarity is open to the +. ---After the brick there is a smaller gauge cord, with a 1" X .5" cylinder in the line right before an "L" shaped single pole that plugs into the unit.1) Can someone explain what I see on the equipment about 12V & 6.67A, 12V & 5.0A, and100-240V & 2.1A?2) Am I correct in thinking this is a 12V unit that could operate most efficiently with an adapter like Dan Garcia mentioned from the "cigarette outlet" that's already installed (rather than plugging into the 110 outlet, which would involve converting/inverting?). I have two solar panels & have had plenty of power for my needs when boondocking (except when snow on the roof/cloudy days prevented charging & I had to run the gen to run the furnace.)3) If all I need is such an adapter, could someone suggest a vendor that has passed the "snake oil" smell test?Apologies for the length & meandering quality of this is post, which seems clear as mud to me, & many thanks for any clarifying questions/discussion/explanations.Lynne LDy Lulubelle, '05 30' TB Lilly, The 4-LeggedAlarm
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #5 – March 12, 2016, 07:05:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 159324I suspect that the humidifier is a significent part of th e current draw. Garry
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #6 – March 12, 2016, 07:59:22 am Yahoo Message Number: 159325Don, if your unit includes a hydrator/heater/humidifier, 6 to 7 amps at 12 volts sounds pretty reasonable.I have had two units. The older Bi-PAP machine ran on 12v DC or 120v AC using a brick provided by the mfr. My recollection is that it draws 3 amps at 12v. My newer unit is 24v via a mfr's power converter. The plaque on it says it is 1.25 amps at 24v. That would equate to 2.5 amps at 12v. Neither of my units use a hydrator/heater/humidifier. Those add more amperage than the base CPAP unit because they are creating heat, not just pumping air.Ken F in NM
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #7 – March 12, 2016, 08:39:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 159326Lynne, I will take a stab at it. First, you say you have a unit with a humidifier but do not use it. That is a little confusing to me. If you have a one piece unit with a water reservoir that you are leaving dry, the unit MAY still be trying to heat the water which is not there. That may be heating the container and could be a concern. On the other hand, if you have a two piece unit and the humidifier part is unplugged, that's fine.Now, to the labels. If I understand you, your power converter reads 60W 100-240V 50/60 Hz , 2.1A, 12V 5.0A. You nailed all the abbreviations - watts, volts, hertz and amps. That label tells me that converter can deliver 60 watts of power. It can work with 100 to 240 volts, and may be expected to draw 2.1 amps. It will deliver 5 amps of power at 12 volts, and if you multiply those volts (12) by those amps (5) you get the power output - 60 watts. If you try to put more load on that converter, several results are possible. Most likely the converter will heat up. It probably will deliver less voltage or less amperage or both to the device into which it is plugged.OK, let's try the CPAP machine. That tag reads 12v 6.67 amps. That is 80 watts. Now, the labels do not reflect average use. They show peak demand. If you do not have a heater plugged in for the humidifier, you will draw less, but if the heater is plugged in, even though there is no water in the reservoir it is still drawing power. So, if you are drawing 80 watts and trying to run it through a 60 watt converter, you might have a problem, but if the heater is not running you probably are fine. Even if the heater is on, if your draw is variable, pulling 80 watts at full load (inhalation) and less during exhalation, you might still be ok with a 60 watt converter. If your converter came from the manufacturer, that is probably the case and you are fine.Finally, how about powering your system from a standard 12v outlet? That is probably the most efficient way to go, but I do have a few cautions. First, while rare, it would not be impossible for your system to use 12v AC rather than 12v DC, in which case that brick is a transformer, not a converter. Your RV has 12v DC in it. If you have a manual, it may say whether you need AC or DC in the specifications.The 1" x 1/2" cylinder in the line before the plug is a fuse. It protects the machine from excessive power.If you want to plug directly into the 12v DC system, you can, as long as your unit uses DC, not AC. You need a 12v plug for the 12v outlet, you need a wire heavy enough to carry the current without heating up, and you need a little plug like the one that plugs into your unit. There are MANY of these that look almost identical, but are not. You need to match the center post diameter and the outer cylinder diameter, as well as the cylinder length and depth. If you have a Radio Shack in your area, and you take your power supply in, they should be able to match the plug for you. Finally, you MUST be sure you connect the two plugs and the wire so that you preserve polarity. If you reverse them, you may fry your unit. Typically, the center part of the plug for each is positive and the sides are negative.I hope that helps.Ken F in NM
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #8 – March 12, 2016, 09:36:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 159327Quote Quote On Mar 12, 2016, at 3:45 AM, [lifewithalazydazerv] wrote:o o oI have a Phillips Respironics System One REMstar A-Flex SleepMapper with a humidifier (though I don't use the humidifier). The back of the unit says: 12V (volt?) __ 6.67A (amps?)I don't use a CPAP machine or looked at one carefully, so take everything I say with a large grain of salt!First, as much as you've said, there are different models of the device, so you need to figure out exactly what you have before you buy the car/RV adapter.Quote The power cord plugs into a (110 volt?) wall outlet, with a standard cord leading to a brick (inverter/converter?), on the back of which is: 60W (watts?) 100-240V (volts?) ~ 50/60 Hz (hertz?), 2.1A 12V (volts?) __ 5.0A (amps?) The polarity is open to the +. ---After the brick there is a smaller gauge cord, with a 1" X .5" cylinder in the line right before an "L" shaped single pole that plugs into the unit.1) Can someone explain what I see on the equipment about 12V & 6.67A, 12V & 5.0A, and100-240V & 2.1A? The system is designed to work anywhere in the world, (but you might need a wall plug adapter to match the wall socket). Hence the 100-240 V (indeed meaning volts) that the "brick" accepts. The 2.1 A (indeed meaning Amps) is the maximum current it might draw from an AC (i.e. alternating current) outlet. The alternating current flows back and forth in one direction and then the other and the frequency at which it does this, once called cycles per second is now called Hertz (abbreviated Hz). US and Canada use 60 Hz power while Europe and much of the rest of the world use 50 Hz power.Power, something we usually understand particularly when we think of light bulbs is measured in Watts. Without getting into the weeds of electric engineering, multiplying the Volts times the Amps gives you Watts. So, your brick would draw more Amps when the AC voltage is lower say here in the US vs. what it would in Europe where the voltage is roughly double.Now, you have two different sets of values for the DC (direct, i.e. non-alternating) power which is what the house batteries provide. The one with the higher current (the 6.67A) would be the "unregulated" 12 V. It's called unregulated because it is not ever exactly 12 V. It might be 14.4 V when the batteries are fully charged or barely 12 V at night when you're boon-docking. The motor in the CPAP would prefer a nice constant voltage and so Phillips has a "voltage regulator" in those cylindrical objects in the cable to provide that. You would not what the motor running faster simple because higher voltage power is available.Quote2) Am I correct in thinking this is a 12V unit that could operate most efficiently with an adapter like Dan Garcia mentioned from the "cigarette outlet" that's already installed (rather than plugging into the 110 outlet, which would involve converting/inverting?). I have two solar panels & have had plenty of power for my needs when boondocking (except when snow on the roof/cloudy days prevented charging & I had to run the gen to run the furnace.) Yes, every time power needs to be converted you lose energy as heat. Conversions are better or worse, but never 100% efficient.Quote3) If all I need is such an adapter, could someone suggest a vendor that has passed the "snake oil" smell test?Here is a link to site that may have what you need:http://www.directhomemedical.com/1097568-shielded-dc-cord-systemone-60-series-cpap.htmlBut, note it's for "60 series" model CPAP. Lower on the page is another adapter for other CPAP models. So, be careful selecting. And, of course, I have no idea how good the company I'm citing is.QuoteApologies for the length & meandering quality of this is post, which seems clear as mud to me, & many thanks for any clarifying questions/discussion/explanations.Lynne LDy Lulubelle, '05 30' TB Lilly, The 4-LeggedAlarm Good luck!Alex Rutchka, SE #4 '05 MB
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #9 – March 12, 2016, 10:09:21 am Yahoo Message Number: 159331Lynne, I have the same unit. I purchased the 12 volt adapter from sleep direct. Here is the link
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #10 – March 12, 2016, 12:09:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159333Sent from my iPhone
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #11 – March 12, 2016, 12:41:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159334I have the same CPAP machine. I bought a Resbett battery which runs the CPAP (without the humidifier) for 2 nights. In the morning I plug the battery into my small inverter to recharge. The battery is pretty pricey but this system works great. You can also get a second battery which doubles hour usage. Didn't seem to need two as I always charge the battery in the morning. Hope this helps.
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #12 – March 12, 2016, 10:22:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159335IMO, the main "snake oil" element is the requirement for a prescription to buy any consumable parts or accessories. Once you know you it can help you (the proverbial sleep study), everything else just helps the docs pay for their boat. My unit can actually automatically adjust the required pressure dynamically. Of course the docs won't ever tell you that, they just want you to keep coming back for "support."Like most electronics today, a CPAP can run on any thing you can feed to it. I am working in Hong Kong this week. 50Hz, 240 V, not a problem for my Devilbiss Intellipap. Just an adapter to plug the thing in and go. I will be in Australia next week. 230V, 50HZ but uses a different connector. The Devilbiss does not use an external power brick, and is quite compact. So it is somewhat easier to travel with, than the Respironics I used in the past.The Devilbiss also has a 12V DC input, but that does not power the humidifier (really just a small heater for the water). When running on 12VDC, the current consumed is far less than the maximum rating, typically around an amp or so. Unfortunately, for me personally, I really like the added humidity, so lately I've just been connecting it to a little 300W inverter I have on board (same one I use to charge my laptop). It consumes more current of course, but no more than a few amps at 12V. I have not found it to be a problem so far. Total cost to adapt my CPAP for RV use: $0-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #13 – March 13, 2016, 06:46:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 159337An example of battery use--I have a Respironics, REMmaster Auto, System One with heat and humidifier. I popped for the 12V accessory and used it in the truck cigarette lighter receptacle for three nights, maybe four, before the truck battery ran down. At most, I slept about six hours per night, but used all the features of the CPAP machine. We carry a portable solar charger and did not need to drive the truck, so no problem with the battery running down. The battery was fully charged when we parked, about three years old (a 2012 chassis), and there was no other draw on the battery.An online source I use is CPAP.COM.Regarding snake-oil salesmen, the insurance-health system has always worked in a way to enable device price gouging (Yes, years before the Affordable Care Act). The insurer requires doctors to authorize everything before insurance pays, which requires scheduled visits. For a patient to purchase their own equipment and then send the bills to the insurer can save money, but that is not how the system works. My land-based device/accessory supplier charges double what the online place charges, but the insurance pays my supplier. That said, the insurer does reduce payments to doctors and suppliers, but that reduction information is not provided to patients.When I want something that is not yet scheduled to be given to me by the supplier and insurer, I go online and purchase it separately. If all one needs are accessories, no rx is required for online purchase. In most cases, only a copy of one's last rx is required to purchase an entire CPAP machine, but those cost a bunch more money than I would want to fork over.An example of working both resources--I recently wanted to try the new Dreamwear mask and it was not time for me to get a new mask through the insurer, so I spent the $100+ bucks to get one online (note that my land-based supplier charges $300+ to the insurer). I love it, no more marks across my poor nose. So, now, my land-based supplier handles all the accessories/replacement parts for the new mask per the usual schedules for those things.s/Terry Apple, 2013 27RB
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #14 – March 13, 2016, 12:35:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159340I have been at Morro Bay since Monday 3/7. I have used my ResMed CPAP every night. The ResMed is designed so that you can use it with out heated hose and humidifier. I have the factory AGM batteries with 2 factory installed 100 watt solar panels. Sun has been missing here. The CPAP pulls the batteries down to 12.5. after one night. On the cloudy days I have run the generator about 1 hour to recharge. Dry camping now for 6 nights has been no problem using my CPAP.
Re: 12 Volt CPAP Reply #15 – March 13, 2016, 03:12:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 159347Waves to Sky Soldier, with due respect, the volt reading of your batteries is meaningless - to me anyway. Ideally, one would have a battery monitor and could cut off all other 12volt devices and see how many amps the CPAP draws. The less accurate way would be to read the manufactures label on the machine.There seems to be quite a range of amps used. I am guessing the higher amp users are with a heater cut on. I am also guessing the manufacture shows only the amps used with the heater on.While 5 to 7 amps may be reasonable as to accuracy, it's way more than I want to expend. Three amps or less is reasonable to me. It seems there are a few native 12volt machines that can run at less than 3amps. Good news for me.Thanks for all the information so far.
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