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Topic: Replace Right Coach W/Small Recliner (Read 36 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152765
This wifi extender/router has been working pretty well for me for about $100. It has suction cups so I can attach it to the window on the inside up front, and provide my own secure network to my computer in the back. Without it, I can't connect to the wifi in the park, especially with a rig next to me. But with it I'm getting a good signal almost all of the time. There are still some slow downs and drops, but I think that's mostly due to traffic as other people have said.
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007BD6GDE

David 2000 MB
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152766
"A bigger (longer) antenna definitely helps. But not nearly as much as getting it up in the air.
 For many years, I have used a USB WiFi adaptor, mounted on the crank-up RV antenna, sealed inside a waterproof pipe. A USB extension cord lead through a marine thru fitting , into the interior, where it is plugged into the laptop.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095131568/show

It certainly isn't as good as a dedicated  WiFi repeater but it is better than using the onboard WiFi transceiver, in the laptop or iPad.
In too many parks we have had good signal strength but no bandwidth, especially after dinner..
We run into the same problem with cellular data in touristy places and parks.
Sometime a good book is the best entertainment you can find.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152768
That's a real clever fit-up, Larry. You're very creative at those "outside the box" solutions!  (And, I'm happy to have been on the receiving end of a few of those "better ideas". ;-) )

Are those "anti-slip strips" on your rig's roof?  (Or, roof protection from the kayaks?)

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Replace Right Coach W/Small Recliner
Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152769
Cell phone Internet service and Wifi are completely unrelated to each other.  But as far as cellular Internet is concerned, I use a Verizon UML-290 LTE modem sitting on a cradlepoint router (I actually have two if them). I normally use an external magnet mount antenna sitting on an inverted pie pan stuffed way up front in the fiberglass nose cone.  That location usually works just fine. Once in a rare while, I have to move the antenna up on top of the truck to improve performance, I do not have a cellular booster of any kind.  The external antenna alone has always been adequate for me, keeping in mind I live in the relatively civilized midwest. If I was located more in the styx, I might need to goose it a bit.

My Verizon modem has a static public IP address on it, and is always on and connected. I have  a Linux computer on board that must always be accessible on the Internet.  Very little traffic, but it always needs to be up and accessible.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152770
"Sometime a good book is the best entertainment you can find."

Larry

Oh absolutely! We don't  get our entertainment over the interweb, but downloading a kindle book, checking  email, and doing a few google searches once in a while is nice.
I have never had the urge to download  or stream movies, because slipping a dvd into the player and kicking back is so  simple. Or viewing The Teaching Company, Great Courses, and of course just  reading  books.
 As far as the USB adapter on the  batwing, now that you mention it, I remember you writing about years ago. That  was before I even had a laptop or any devices so I didn't pay a lot of  attention. I think I will try it. I'll just tape it to the batwing and run the  usb cable through  window first, just to see how it works out for me.
Tom
Re: Extended Wifi
Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152772
Larry,

That would/should be a very good way to remote mount a USB Cellular modem, you would just need to make sure the voltage drop is not excessive.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #31 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152777
http://www.amazon.com/Mobile-Internet-Handbook-2015-RVers/dp/150848449X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431563186&sr=1-1&keywords=the+mobile+internet+handbook

For those interested in  this topic as well as cellular internet the above book may be of interest. I  just found it a couple hours ago and downloaded the free sample of it to my  kindle. Have not read all of it yet but it is very up-to-date  (2015).
Tom
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #32 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152783
"Are those "anti-slip strips" on your rig's roof?  (Or, roof protection from the kayaks?)"

Joan

The black strip are 3M Safety Walk tape, placed to show where the roof frames are located so I step directly on the framing.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-2-in-x-15-ft-Safety-Walk-Step-and-Ladder-Tread-Tape-7635NA/100132176 Safety Walk tape has an abrasive surface, sandpaper-like and helps prevents trips and falls when the top is wet, as often the case when loading our kayaks.
It's good for use where ever slippery conditions exist. Our 2003 LD's front bumper has a lower opening that is convenient for climbing up  on to clean the center of the windshield. A strip of the tape makes an iffy foothold into a solid step. Use it to repair or replace damage cab or entry door steps, where the abrasive cover has worn or torn away.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #33 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152789
At the moment I'm in a RV park that has half way decent WiFi but you have to be in the Rec building.  One of the long timers here says he uses a Alfa Booster (?) and it works well for him.  He said he bought it on Amazon for around $30.

I'm thinking about trying it but my experience, like most others, is most RV park wifis are marginal at best so a booster won't help.

Bob '01 26RK
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #34 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152796
I bought this WiFi antenna recently from C. Crane: Super WiFi Repeater Kit after a lot of on line research. Crane makes others that are a little cheaper and have good reviews, but would not work on the latest Mac computer OS. This one does not require any drivers. I have not tested it yet. On a recent trip to CA I had great WiFi reception where I thought I would need this antenna, so never set it up. I will post a review when I use it. An ideal set up would be attaching it to the bat wing antenna and running the cable into the LD.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #35 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152797
I must second Larry's approach to getting better WiFi performance.  He is definitely going in the right direction.  Let me explain why.  (This may be a lengthy posting as even a simplified explanation takes many words.)
 What many people do not understand is that the key to WiFi is the radio communications; the network part is trivial.  WiFi performance hinges on the ability of your device (laptop or cell phone) and the WiFi access point to communicate in both directions.  A typical laptop computer has a WiFi radio that has a power output of 20 mw to 30 mw.  The radio in a campground WiFi access point may have  an output of 500mw or more.   The result:  your laptop can hear the access point but the access point cannot hear your laptop and WiFi does not work. (In free space, radio communications degrade as a function of the square of the distance between the receiver and transmitter.  In most campgrounds the degradation is worst due to other interferences and blockage of the radio signals.)
 Enter the WiFi repeaters like WiFiRanger.  I was not familiar with this device but did a bit of research on the web.  I like the looks of the WiFiRanger Elite which you can mount on your existing "batwing" antenna as Larry has done.  This device, and most similar devices, will operate in two modes:  "WiFi repeater" and "external WiFi adapter."   In the repeater mode, the unit connects to the campground WiFi system and also makes a wireless connection to your device (laptop?).  However in this mode the overall bandwidth to the campground WiFi is cut in half.  WiFi repeaters cannot simultaneously transmit and receive.  They work on a "store and forward" basis.  They enter the receive state and accept a block of information from your device.  Then they switch to the forward state and send the block of information to the WiFi access point .  Communications from the WiFi access point to your device work in the same manner.
 The best way to use these devices is in the "external WiFi adapter" mode.  Basically this mode provides your device with a more powerful WiFi radio and does not reduce the bandwidth of the WiFi communications.  Some of these devices connect to your laptop via USB, others via a network cable.  I do not know what model of external device Larry has used, but he indicated that it was USB connected.
 Larry's direction about getting the antenna as high is possible is "spot on."  WiFi radio communication uses "ground wave" signals (or as least that is what most amateur radio fans call them).  This means that the communications is limited to "line of sight."  The higher the antenna above ground, the further the signals go before they disappear.
 The choice of an antenna is another critical factor.  If you notice most campground WiFi systems have some type of vertical antenna.  This means that the radio signals are "vertically polarized."  Try to stick with a vertical antenna of some  time.    Some people may tell you to install a Yagi antenna.  Yagi antennas work well with horizontally polarized radio signals and are useful in dedicated "point-to-point" radio links.  IHMO they have limited application in WiFi Systems (Cell phone systems are a different breed of cat.)
 At the moment I am using a device called Pepwave, which I acquired from the 3G Store.  I connect it to my laptop with a Cat 5  network cable which makes it an external WiFi adapter.  In most cases its "rubber ducky" vertical antenna does OK.  In very difficult situations I have a Hawking "Corner Antenna"  which I have modified to stick to any of the motorhome windows with suction cups.  The antenna is a vertical antenna with a reflector that  gives it a significant gain.  I just attach it to the most appropriate window.
 I  think that I will investigate the WiFiRanger Elite some more as it sounds like it may have some advantages over my existing equipment.  Unfortunately I now own an SOB which does not have the Wineguard crankup antenna.  However it appears that the WiFiRanger Elite can be mounted on the rear ladder or roof rails.
 In  summary my advice is to avoid "WiFi repeaters' and focus on devices that can be  used as "External WiFi Adapters."

Doug Baker
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #36 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152804
Hi  Chris
 I am looking forward to your review of the C Crane super Wifi repeater. IMO  the wifi repeater is a better way to go. You can have more than one device on  line at a time. Besides some devices don't have a usb port. Then two if you have  devices which some are apple and some not, there is the concern about drivers  working or not. A repeater is just another access point inside the RV whose  signals never have to go through walls or anything else.
 Mounting the antenna up on the batwing tv antenna is a good thing. But if  you are parked between two big class A's, they are probably higher than the  batwing can get your antenna. If you can mount your antenna up on a pole about 2  meters above the top of the rig, like many people are mounting their cell signal  antennas, that would be really good!
 I spent the last hour or so researching the C Crane products and their  reviews and it looks promising. I just wish their antennas were dual-band to  take advantage of the full capabilities of modern wifi, ie, the 5GHz band.

Tom

I bought this WiFi antenna recently  from C. Crane: Super WiFi Repeater Kit after a lot of on line  research. Crane makes others that are a little cheaper and have good reviews,  but would not work on the latest Mac computer OS. This one does not require any  drivers. I have not tested it yet. On a recent trip to CA I had great WiFi  reception where I thought I would need this antenna, so never set it up. I will  post a review when I use it. An ideal set up would be attaching it to the bat  wing antenna and running the cable into the LD.

Chris
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #37 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152805
Doug--

Thx for such a thorough discussion.  This is just one of the many reasons I appreciate this group--the ability & willingness to share information, & break it down so my limited technoliteracy can understand (& continue to review as I learn more).  Muchly appreciated,

Lynne LDy Lulubelle Lilly, 4-legged Alarm
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Replace Right Coach W/Small Recliner
Reply #38 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152806
Doug,

I must take gentle exception to some of what you have written, I've been associated with radio and electronics most most of my life, plus 8 years as a Navy electronics tech (ET1).

"Ground wave" is generally associated with lower frequency transmissions, typically below 3 MHz. This has pretty much nothing to do with the much higher frequencies used in WiFi networks, typically 2.4 to 5.9 GHz.

A simple explanation is that WiFi signals are basically line of sight, just like shining a flashlight. But they do reflect off some things, so you can have multi-path reception and a usable signal sometimes when there is not a perfect line of sight path - they can also pass through some non-metallic materials, though, depending on the material, there may be some attenuation. The flashlight analogy is a good one, and also explains why antenna height is so important when the signals must travel really long distances where the curvature of the earth or obstructions would block the signal.

Yes, it's important that your antenna be the same polarization as the antenna you are trying to communicate with, and as you say, most access points will have a vertically polarized antenna, and most often an omni directional antenna (one that transmits and receives 360 degrees).

A Yagi, is a directional gain antenna, and like the lens of a flashlight, can aim a "focused" beam that will be strongest from the front (generally small end) of the antenna. Kind of the like the difference between a bare bulb and one with a reflector, Yagis are an *excellent* choice for a WiFi antenna, but only *IF* you have a way and the will to aim or point them. Directional gain antennas (like the yagi) are the best choice when distances are far (but still line of sight) or signals are weak - they work with strong close signals too, of course.

Yagis can be either vertically or horizontally polarized, it just depends on how you mount it! If the elements are up and down then it's vertically polarized. A Yagi will perform better, than an Omni directional antenna. When reviewing the antenna specs, each 3 db represents an approximate doubling of transmit or receive effective power. Omni directional antennas do have an advantage that should be obvious, you don't have to worry about aiming them, but signals need to be stronger.
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #39 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152808
I'll add my $.02 since this is something I researched before we bought our rig.

I bought a Pico Station ($72 on Amazon), a high-power wifi that accepts power over ethernet. It's able to be mounted outside. It comes with an omni antenna that works fairly well, but I paired it with a biquad antenna ($34, ebay) that boosted the signal. I mounted that biquad to the TV antenna when we were stopped. It could have been mounted permanently, but I didn't get around to it.

The pico station (which is often used in Marine setups) was setup so that the data output from it plugged into my rig's wireless router (Asus 16N, $77 on amazon), where all of my devices got the signal from. As a practical matter, it also meant that my connection was shared between those devices, but that slight disadvantage was greatly outweighed by the ease of connecting the whole rig to a new network.

It definitely is a bit of a "homespun" solution and requires some comfort tweaking settings in a web interface, but the performance was far superior to sitting on the roof with my laptop.

-

Chris
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Replace Right Coach W/Small Recliner
Reply #40 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152810
Bumper--

Thank you...I really appreciate these detailed back-&-forth discussions.    I especially appreciate your flashlight analogy, since I'm a visual person & the technical stuff often goes over my head (but I can re-read these discussions like an ol' cow chewing a cud, & get something more out of it every time).

Lynne LDy Lulubelle Lilly, 4-legged Alarm
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #41 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152813
Using Larry's example a few years ago, I mounted an USB Wi-fi dongle in a sealed length of PVC pipe and mounted it on the crank-up antenna. Worked reasonably well.
Two years I decided to try for a little more "oomph" and got a setup made by Alfa, consisting of their R36 Repeater and Extender (3G router also) and an Alfa UBDo-nt8 Long-Range Outdoor "antenna". The antenna is mounted on the crank-up tv antenna. This setup worked better than the simple USB dongle, but I gotta tell you it's a pain in the neck to set up properly the first time, trying to figure out the software it uses. I had to upgrade the firmware in the R36 in order for it to talk to the antenna. Although complicated, Alfa support folks were quite good at responding in a timely fashion. Overall, though, due to its complexity, I really can't recommend this setup.
I very rarely use the Alfa setup, mainly for the reasons others have already mentioned - very limited bandwidth available through the campground Wi-fi system.
It's just easier to use my trusty 3G VZW USB modem coupled with a Cradlepoint 1000 router all the time. I have a true unlimited data plan, so it's just easier to use it instead of a campground's flaky Wi-fi.
I keep waiting for my Winegard TV antenna to collapse under the weight of all it has on it: the batwing antenna, the Alfa antenna and a Wilson Truckers cell antenna. But it's held up for three years now.
WxToad www.wxtoad.com
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #42 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152815
Alfa works. I'm not saying that the Alfa is the absolute best way to  go, but I think it's the   best bang for the buck.
Get the 1 or 2 watt unit bundle with the 9" antenna. The suction cup  window mount gizmo is useful, too.  There is also a waterproof housing  available, so you can do a mast mount, if you want.

RonC

Doug's explanation is very good.
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #43 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152816
Hi Bumper,
 In general I agree with  your "gentle exceptions".  I did neglect to point out that Yagi's can be mounted with the elements in a vertical direction.  The good part about the Yagi is the gain.  The bad part is that you must aim the darn thing.  If you really want to get longer distances from radio signals in the "WiFi" range  one might go to a "matrix -type" (patch array ?) antenna mounted in a parabolic dish.  These things provide more gain than the Yagi but are also a lot harder to aim.
 I would disagree with you a bit on "ground waves" but I think that the difference is in semantics.  If you look at the vertical plane (elevation plane) radiation pattern for many antennas you will see a major lobe that projects upwards at some angle above zero degrees and one or more minor lobes that are at zero degrees elevation or close to it.  To me these lower lobes are the "ground waves."   They are not limited to only low frequencies, although that is generally the place where they find use.  If you have been a ham and operated on the old 160 meter band (just above the AM radio frequencies) the communications were via "ground wave" as are the signals produced by the commercial AM radio stations.  If you moved up to the 10 meter band (30 Mhz) you readily see the difference between "ground waves" and "sky waves."  At 10 meters most of the time you are limited to local communications via the "ground wave."  When solar conditions are just right, "the skip is in" and you can make contacts over very long distances via the "sky waves."  Usually you cannot communicate to the area that lies between the ground wave coverage and the sky wave coverage.  This is true of CB radio too as it sits at 11 meters (27 Mhz).
 Many types of antennas are used at both lower and higher frequencies; properly designed for use at the specific frequency.  It is common for the radiation patterns for a specific type of antenna to be different at lower and higher frequencies.
Cisco has a good article on antenna radiation patterns for typical antennas used in WiFi (more properly WLAN) work.  Note that the vertical (elevation) radiation pattern for many of the antennas has the major lobe at or near zero degrees elevation.  To me these are "ground waves."  Many of the antennas have few, if any, "sky wave" lobes.
 http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/wireless/aironet-antennas-accessories/prod_white_paper0900aecd806a1a3e.html

It is true that WLAN signals can bounce around in an area and can also be absorbed (blocked) by objects.  IMHO the bigger, and less understood, problem is attenuation of the signal as it passes through things like walls.  Signal attenuation is much more noticeable on a 5Ghz WLAN than it is on a 2.4Ghz WLAN.
 Do I have any technical qualifications?  More  years as a "ham" than I care to remember and several  years of teaching microwave radio in the U.S. Army Signal School at Ft Monmouth, NJ.
 In any case I think that we are discussing details that most members of this group will probably not understand nor really need to know.

Peace,

Doug Baker
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #44 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152819
"It's just easier to use my trusty 3G VZW USB modem coupled with a Cradlepoint 1000 router all the time. I have a true unlimited data plan, so it's just easier to use it instead of a campground's flaky Wi-fi."

Ted

This has become our primary source of data. The few RV parks we stay never have enough bandwidth and it is much easier and most of the time much faster downloads using the cellular antenna and amplifier.

While the dongle still lives on the TV antenna, it has not been used in months. The USB output is only useful when using a laptop, our iPads do not have USB ports.
Most smart phones have WiFi hotspots and that is what we use for the tablets.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #45 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152833
Thanks for the memo, Doug - from an old Morse Code intercept operator - and at my age, as usual, I found it quite interesting, but I can't do anything about it.

Good travels to you - it's folks like you that make this group very interesting.

Barry "O" - 06MB Ruby Red
2006 27' MidBath
 
Re: Extending wifi range
Reply #46 –
Yahoo Message Number: 152837
"In any case I think that we are discussing details that most members of this group will probably not understand nor really need to know."

Yeah, but it's kinda like the Car Talk guys on NPR--I FEEL smarter just from having read the discussion (of course, LOL, that's a long ways from being able to apply it).  Thx, guys, for sharing your knowledge.

Lynne LDy Luubelle '05 31' TB Lilly, 4-legged Alarm
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm