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Topic: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping? (Read 22 times) previous topic - next topic
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Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Yahoo Message Number: 151016
At Quartzsite this year, there was a conversation about whether to leave your water pump on when dry camping. We leave ours off until we need it, and then we turn it off again. We do this to save power. However, I am wondering if the ShurFlo Revolution pump requires more power at startup. If so, by using it on an on-demand basis, could it be using more power vs leaving it on during the day and then just shutting it off at bedtime? In any event, I don't want to leave it on 24/7 when dry camping since the pump is right under the bed in the 30 IB, so cycling noise during the night would not be desirable.

Kevin Lindsay Garden Grove CA 2000 Lazy Daze 30 IB
Kevin Lindsay
2000 Lazy Daze 30 IB
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151019
A water pump doesn't use power when not actively being used.
 We keep our water pump on all the time when boondocking (which we do the majority of the time), although I *try* to remember to turn it off when we leave the rig for any amount of time.
 If your water pump is cycling during the night (or day) when not being used, checked for a leak someplace because it shouldn't do that.

Linda Hylton
Linda Hylton
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151021
My 2005 MH has the shurflo Extreme 5.7. I do not have water in the unit so I can not test to see if there is a amp draw when the pump in not running. If the pump does not have a computer board it should not pull any amps when off. It is turned on by a pressure switch and they will not draw power.  When running my pump draws 2.0 amps. It is best to leave the power off to the pump if you are not going to use it for a long period of time or will not be there if the water system should spring a leak. If the pump turns on every once in a while you could have a leak in the system. The biggest reason for the pump turning on once in a while is the change in temp or the check valve in the pump leaking back into the water tank.

George

Retired plumber
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151022
Linda's comment about a "cycling" pump is right on; if you're hearing "brrrrp brrrrrp" when the pump is off, it's likely that there's a leak.

If I'm in the rig, the pump usually stays on; when I leave the rig for any amount of time, it's off. Is a fitting or the pump is going to blow, being *in* the rig to notice the "flow" and stop it is a lot better than coming back to a flooded motorhome.

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151025
Linda:
 I'm going to check with ShurFlo, but my guess is that it does use some power when turned on, even if it is not active.
 There are reasons why a pump may cycle, and they don't always indicate a leak. The air gap in the water heater changes according to the temperature of the water in the water heater tank.  This can cause the pressure in the plumbing system to increase or decrease. Also, if your fresh water tank gets low, air can be introduced into the system.

Kevin
Kevin Lindsay
2000 Lazy Daze 30 IB
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151028
I'll be interested to hear what Shurflo has to say on the water pump power use question. AFAIK, the water pump uses no power if there is no "demand" for water.

As Kevin said, a leak in the pump, line, fitting, toilet or other fixture, is not the only cause of "pump burps". It might be a good idea to check the water heater pressure relief valve; sometimes it will drip if the air gap in the water heater isn't correct or if it needs to be re-set. A tiny ooze is generally OK, but if the pressure relief valve drip is too much, the pump might make little cycling noises noises to compensate for the pressure drop.

I'd still suggest turning the pump off when one is not in the rig, and checking for leaks (at the pump, then at all fittings, lines, and fixtures) as a first step if one hears the pump cycling when all the faucets are closed.

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151031
Single speed pumps do not use any power when not powered up.
If a variable speed pumps uses power, it is so minimal that it didn't show on the LinkLite, back when our LD has one of those failure prone pumps.
The Factory presently uses a single-speed Revolution 4008 pump, the only good reason to turn the pump off is to prevent a flood in case of a plumbing break. No power will be saved by turning it off.

A pump with a weak check valve (an internal one-way valve) will slowly lose pressure and will occasionally "burb". Cooling water can also lower the pressure. I notice our pump burping once later in the evening, after taking hot showers.

The most common place for a water leak, in my experience, is in the water lines leading to a from the pump.
Check the clamps occasionally.
You can add a water-sensitive sensor under the pump to help detect leaks.
http://www.harborfreight.com/water-leak-detector-98461.html

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151032
There  are reasons why a pump may cycle, and they don't always indicate a leak. The air  gap in the water heater changes according to the temperature of the water in the  water heater tank.  This can cause the pressure in the plumbing system to  increase or decrease. Also, if your fresh water tank gets low, air can be  introduced into the system.

Kevin


There  is no air gap in the water heater. The valve on the HW tank outside where the  heater controls are is a TP VALVE. (temperature pressure relief valve) The tp  valve is set to expel water if the pressure in the system (tank) goes over 150  PSI or the temp goes over 210 degrees. When you heat the tank for the first time  in a trip you filled the tank with cold water. As the water heats it expand  raising the pressure in the tank and the rest of the plumbing system to over 150 PSI and the valve will start to  drip/run to relieve the pressure. Best thing to do is open a faucet at a sink to  relieve the pressure. It is best to do this a couple of times as the tank heats  the first time. DO NOT TRIP THE LEVER ON THE TP VALVE. If the temp in the tank  goes over 210 the valve will also open. The temp part of the valve will not  relieve unless the gas controls fail. It is best to not trip the TP valve. If you trip the valve you can get rust or what ever in the seat and the valve will not stop dripping and you may need to replace it and at the same time keep losing water.

George

Retired plumber
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151034
George said "There is no air gap in the water heater. "  Lazy Daze and Atwood disagree.  They state "The Atwood water heater is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank to reduce the possibility of dripping.  In time, the expanding water will absorb this air and it must be restored."  It and the LD owners manual give instructions for restoring the air gap.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151038
George also said to leave the TP valve alone, not to open it. That is also incorrect. I open this valve every time I drain the hot water tank, then open it several times allowing it to snap closed.

When draining the hot water tank prior to a period of non-use, opening this valve is a convenient way (though opening a faucet would also work) of introducing air in to better "flush" the tank while draining. Also opening the TP valve and then flipping the lever to let it snap closed, is a recommended method to eliminate any slight leak. Note that if you do this when the tank is full and pressurized, each time you open the valve you will be eliminating part of the air pocket at the top of the tank. So if attempting to stop the valve from leaking, you don't want to "cycle" the valve more than a couple of times or leave it open long. Otherwise you will have to go through the admittedly simple procedure to renew the air pocket.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151043
Joan makes a good point about turning off the pump when you leave the coach.  We have always left our pump turned off and turn it on only when needing to use water.  However, this has a disadvantage; you are more likely to go into the bathroom and forget to turn on the pump.
 If the pump is left turned on, does it use electrical power when not actually pumping water?  It depends on the pump.
 My 2005 LD had the */??%#!!  Shurflo 5.7 GPM variable speed pump.  It contains an electronics module that is on the bottom of the pump and definitely draws a little electrical current as long as power is applied to the pump.  I measured the current at one time but don't remember exactly the value;  my guess is that it was between 10 and 15 milliamperes.  This is not much, but if you are dry camping for several days, it does add up.  However, the total amount is probably not significant compared to the amount of power taken by  lights and other things.  This pump needs the electronics module because it uses a "pressure transducer" that measures the value of the pressure rather than a simple "pressure switch" that is either "on" or "off."  Currently I have one of these pumps (a dead one) on my work bench partially disassembled.  I am salvaging the motor for use in a Halloween prop.  I intend to disassemble the electronics module, if possible, to see how it works and maybe find out why I had 5 of these pumps fail.
 My current SOB has a Shurflo Revolution Series 4008 pump.  It does not have an electronics module.  The external wiring indicates  that it is controlled by a simple pressure switch.  It should not draw current when it is not pumping water.

Doug Baker
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151052
George said "There is no air gap in the water  heater. "  Lazy Daze and Atwood disagree.  They state "The Atwood water heater  is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank to reduce the  possibility of dripping.  In time, the expanding water will absorb this air and  it must be restored."  It and the LD owners manual  give instructions for restoring the air gap.

Ken F in  NM


 I have over 50 years in the plumbing  industry, have gone to countless schools on the subject and have never heard of  the space at the top of the water tank and the top of the water referred to as  an AIR  GAP.
LD in there literature calls it an AIR POCKET;  which it is. The problem is company's like Atwood  hire cheaply paid writers to write  these/there manuals not engineers.
 We do have AIR GAPS in  the MH. These are the open air distance between the outlet of the faucet and  the fluid level rim of the sink. That is an AIR GAP in the plumbing industry.
 As for the AIR POCKET  it is large enough to take care of the expansion of the water when it is heated  20 degree but not when you heat the water 80 degree. The small volume of water  in the tank is what helps causes the problem; in a 40 gal home tank this dose not  happen unless you have a PRV on the cold water line. And a home tank does not have a AIR POCKET or as Atwood wants to call an air gap.

This brings us back to what is a converter and inverter. They  both convert AC to DC or DC to AC

While we are on the subject of the TP  valve. How many carry a pressure reducer to put before the hose at a camp  ground? ? ? ?  That PRV is probably set at 50/60 PSI. You use the PRV in case the  camp ground has extremely high pressure. Every time you leave home your HWT is  filled with 50/60 degree water. Some where along the line you start the HWT. The  pressure that is built up in the plumbing system as you know starts the TP to start to  leak a little. This may happen on the road at dry camp site or at an RV park.  The pressure that is put on you plumbing system is 150 PSI. That is the pressure  that the TP valve is designed to open.

George

Retired  plumber
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151057
George said "There is no  air gap in the water heater. "  Lazy Daze and Atwood disagree.  They state "The  Atwood water heater is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank  to reduce the possibility of dripping.  In time, the expanding water will absorb  this air and it must be restored."  It and the LD owners manual give instructions for restoring the  air gap.

Ken F in  NM


 Ken would you please tell us all how LD and Atwood says to restore the air POCKET/GAP. and save every one the trouble of having to go find it.

George

Retired Plumber
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151063
George, you shouted at us, you made a lot of statements that are flat wrong, then you asked me to look up and type and post the step by step instructions to restore the air gap so you don't have to look it up yourself.  I think I have posted enough about this, and I think you could use the practice of looking stuff up, so I shall decline to pull out my manuals again, look it up, and type it all out just for you.
 Now, if there is anyone else out there who does not have access to the manuals, and needs the help, I will be glad to help.  Email me rather than filling up the group with more of this.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
 
Re: Water Pump: On or Off while Dry Camping?
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151064
Both Atwood and Suburban water heaters have the air pocket; or at least are supposed to have one.  My experience has been that it tends to disappear easily.  I believe that the LD owner's manual does provide you instructions on how to restore it after the heater has been drained.    There are also other ways of doing it.  If I recall correctly, the "how to do it" has been discussed at  length in this forum.

Doug Baker