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Topic: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions (Read 123 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #50 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150975
Rebecca,

It's one of those things where you mitigate those risks you can, and then decide whether to accept those risks over which you have no control.

I'd want my grand kids to ride in a school bus with seat belts (and air bags and nerf interior!). Sure, if a bus or motor home hits a smaller vehicle, the heavy vehicle's deceleration g-forces may not be so high as to result in fatalities - - maybe. I've investigated very many accidents, though being a city motorcycle cop,  never a motorhome or bus out on the highway where high speed was involved. An AC transit bus, involved in a crash, actually had a line of people entering the back door so they could exit the front door and claim they had an injured neck - honesty, in Oakland, CA, being the best policy at that time.

I would say that wearing seat belts, even though not optimally installed on coach seats in the LD, should still significantly improve the odds of escaping a moderate accident with minor or no injuries.

I think it unconscionable seat belts and shoulder harnesses, at the least, are not required in all school buses.

bumper
"Yonder"
Minden, NV
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #51 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150976
Yep! Went to order a Mid-Bath and left having ordered a 2008 31' TB sight unseen. Kate Kleins blog was a huge help in discovering just what I had bought. BTW, we've never looked back. Love everything about it.
Linda
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #52 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150977
There are 35 pictures of my 2005 31' TB in the photos section above, posted when the previous owner listed LDy Lulubelle for sale here in late 2013 (she is green & white with taupe/beige interior).  He did a great job with pix from many different angles.  These pix are pretty far down past Andy's renovations, the GTG fire & potluck, the new wheel covers, & the "Montana" labels.  These pix show the previous owner's upgrades (e.g., wider Temperpedic mattresses/bedside table, larger TV, slideout under the stove, etc.), but will give a good general idea of the 31' TB interior from many angles.

Lynne 2005 31' TB   LDy Lulubelle
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #53 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150979
Perhaps in CO they consider "size & weight" provide adequate protection in school buses.  Here in MO (where we are considerably more backward--I'm a lifer here, so I know), the calculus is on $$$.  The Republican legislature has consistently shot down seatbelts in school buses for several years because of the cost (of both the equipment & a monitor to keep kids belted in so the driver could maintain eyes on the road).  We are, after all, the Show Me State, & so far there has been inadequate lobbying to "show" the Legislature that safety should trump $$$ (kids generally don't like being confined in seatbelts & only lobby for things like a "state snail [or] exercise"--e.g., Jumping Jacks for General John "Blackjack" Pershing...there's your historical trivia for the day).

I also appreciate your knowledge & expertise, Ken.  I've not yet had anyone beyond a single passenger travel with me.  I remember confidently making sure my kids' car seats were belted on the sofa of my parents' Pace Arrow 25 years ago--never gave a thought to your point about the effects of forward motion, while sitting sideways, on the spine.  Certainly something to think about, if the opportunity to take grandkids ever presented itself.

Lynne

2005 31' TB
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #54 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150980
Lynne, Would you please contact me? I have some important parts for your LD I'd like to send to you.
You still have my email address I believe...
Steve
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #55 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150987
Rebecca, I will share what I recently said to my cousin's daughter.  She has two kids that she home schools.  She has been thinking of the educational advantages to them of being able to be someplace when learning about it, plus the fun of a RV lifestyle, and is thinking about trying fulltiming.  We have been discussing the issues involved - where to stay, the costs, the potential problems, and, of course, what kind of RV she should consider.  Anyone who knows me knows I am a huge fan of LD RV's, but I told her that while there are seat belts in the back of our RV's they do not, in my opinion, provide a safe seat in case of any serious impact.  I suggested that if she wanted maximum safety for her kids when traveling, she should probably be thinking about a trailer, with the towing vehicle having belted positions for at least 4 people.
 I am not saying that you cannot have more than two people in a LD.  I am saying that the risk you incur thereby is similar to the risk of traveling in a car without wearing a seat belt.  George talked about his chairs potentially becoming projectiles.  Without a seat belt, passengers become projectiles.  That happens whether the vehicle is a subcompact or a Greyhound bus or a train or a plane.  The only issue is how fast your direction of travel changes.
 If you are walking in the back of an RV and the driver hits the brakes, you become a projectile, though probably not one traveling fast enough to shatter your body.  What if you are seated and belted and you are in a front end collision? Let's do some math.  Assume two vehicles traveling 60 mph. and of about the same weight  At the time of collision, some forces are absorbed by crushing and deformation of the vehicles.  They are designed to do that.  Let's assume no airbags, and a properly fitted lap and shoulder belt with a seat that can contain the passenger and withstand the impact loading.  Crush damage will allow deceleration of about 2 feet.  The hips and sternum, the restraint points for the seat belt, absorb the rest.  The G forces on the passenger would be calculated by the formula, G = squared/2gs where V is velocity in feet per second, g is the value of 1 G or the force of gravity, 32.2 Ft per sec, and s is the distance of deceleration. Doing the math, the occupant would experience 60 G's.  That MIGHT be survivable but serious internal injuries are likely.  Now, assume the passenger is unbelted.  As the vehicle crushes, the passenger becomes a projectile with no deceleration.  The passenger's head impacts the dashboard (child) or windshield (adult), where the deceleration occurs in perhaps 6 inches.  Do the math.  The brain experiences 240 G's and the brain turns into jelly.  The person dies.
 Well, RV's are heavier than most vehicles out there, right?  First, they are not heavier than all vehicles.  If you collide with a tractor trailer of 80,000 pounds, a bus, a school bus, or any other of the vehicles that are bigger than you, the "heavy vehicle" argument becomes nonsense.  OK, but what if you collide with a car?
 Let's assume a 15,000 pound RV hitting a 5000 pound car at 60 mph.  (I know, we do not weigh 15000 pounds.  I am trying to keep the math simple.)  Momentum = mass times velocity.  The momentum will remain constant.  The masses remain constant.  The velocities will change inversely proportional to the weights.  Thus, the car deceleration is 3 times the RV deceleration.  The impact to the RV is the same as driving into a brick wall at 20 MPH, or about 30 feet per second.
 Let's do the math.  A properly belted person, in a seat that can hold the impact force, will experience about 7 G's.  They might get a case of whiplash but probably will be fine otherwise.  An unrestrained person hitting the windshield will experience a 14 G impact.  They might survive, but a cervical fracture and paralysis are a high probability.
 How about a person sitting on the couch wearing a lap belt?  The body will be restrained at the hips.  The legs and the upper body will continue forward at 30 feet per second, fracturing the spine above the hips.  Most likely the person will survive but will never walk again.  How about a person seated at the dinette facing forward, wearing a lap belt?  OK, that seat will be experiencing 7 G's.  If you weigh 150 pounds, the seat will have to support 1050 pounds of force.  Those seats cannot support that load and will fail.  The lap belts are bolted to at least the floor and, I hope, to a frame member below the floor, so they will probably hold preventing gross movement but not minor movement.  The result will be a chest impact against the edge of the dinette table equivalent to falling from 16 feet high.  Expect a fractured sternum and ribs, a probable flail chest leading to inability to breathe, and a fair chance of ruptured spleen, liver and aorta, all leading to probable death.
 Does anyone out there still think it is safe to be in an RV without seat belts just because some politicians do not mandate seat belts in school buses?
 Yes, Rebecca, it is my opinion that my LD is not a safe vehicle for extended travel for more than two people.  I feel the same about every Class A and Class C RV I have seen.  I have seen a few Class B vehicles that have safe seating for 4 persons.
 That being said, I have had two adults traveling with me for a limited trip from Phoenix to Sedona.  I know the math, and I was not comfortable with their safety in the back, but I also remember driving a car before seat belts were required.  We understood, and accepted, the risk.  Most likely, you will be fine but if someone else does something crazy, being in a heavy vehicle does not protect you, nor does wearing a lap belt in a bucket chair or on a plywood seat.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #56 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150988
Bumper,
 Thank you for your response.  I totally believe that there are risks with anything, and life is about making choices....and preparing for the outcome.  I guess coming from the perspective of "is it safe for me to bring my grand kids or friends with me?", is where many people on this forum are coming from.  I am coming from the perspective of "I have a family and would like to travel across the US, what's the best way?".  After much searching (and eliminating Born Free) we found Lazy Daze.  So to come across the sentiment of 'it's safe for two people only' seemed a bit extreme to me (and George's comment was a bit offensive).  Maybe since my kids don't ever ride the bus, they are not as 'at risk' as others their age.  ;-)

Thanks again...

-Rebecca "the possibility of unconditional love"
Rebecca in WA
2016 mid-bath
"Ramirez"
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #57 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150989
Ken,
 Thank you for your response.  I totally see where you are coming from...and I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out.
I guess we will just have to rely on prayer while we are traveling.

-Rebecca "the possibility of unconditional love"
Rebecca in WA
2016 mid-bath
"Ramirez"
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #58 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150990
You are going to need a lot more than prayer Rebecca.  It is illegal in many (most?) states to travel in a motor vehicle without everyone using a seatbelt.  There is no way you are going to be able to travel safely with nine people in a Class C motorhome.  Not even remotely possible.  You are going to need a large Class A, probably a diesel pusher, that is set up for large numbers of people.  Similar to how music bands set up their buses.

Dick
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #59 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150991
Thanks Dick,

I think you have me confused with someone else.    We have four people.  And we all will be wearing seatbelts.

-Rebecca Winters "the possibility of unconditional love"
Rebecca in WA
2016 mid-bath
"Ramirez"
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #60 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150992
Indeed I did Rebecca. Sorry about that. I was following the thread about the family of 9, and thought we were still on that one.

Dick
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #61 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150994
I'm with you, Rebecca. Just can't imagine how boring a risk free life would be.
Tessa Hill checks in here regularly. Ask her for her blog address. Talk about an adventerous woman and family!

Enjoy your travels.

Ed
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #62 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151001
Thanks to you great folks for all the good info. I'm about 99% sure when I make my trip to the Factory in March my selection will be the 31ft twin bed.

This thread has helped a Newbie make a pretty good decision (I hope).
Rick and Melissa
2016 27ft RB
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #63 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151007
We ordered/own a 2013 31' Twin Bed....feel free to reach out privately if you have specific additional TB questions...

Good luck,

Bill
2013 31' Silver Twin Bed
Semi-retired 6/21....
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #64 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151017
Hello akinback,
 I just joined the forum and read the replies to your inquiry. I, too, felt that the rear lounge would be a perfect fit for my wife and me.
 I had considered the Island Bed, but since LD no longer provides that option in a 27' coach that was not going to happen for us.
 I travel to Yosemite Valley each year with my daughter. Last August, before I finally ordered my LD, I noticed a sign about a mile from the Glacier Point parking lot.
 It stated that no motor homes over 27' could pass the sign. That means if I had an RV longer than 27' then I'd have to park and  either find another way to the point or forget about going there all together. This greatly influenced my choice of my LD length when it came time to place my deposit for my new coach.
 After looking on line and viewing other LD's as well as the Motherships website, I was sold on the rear lounge with the two couches. My wife, daughter and I visited the factory in August 2014.
 There were two 27' coaches in the showroom. Both with the new paint scheme, which we all liked quite a bit. One coach was the rear lounge/mid bath. The other was the rear bath with two large couches forward near the cab.
 I liked the rear lounge, but my wife felt cramped due to the mid bath creating a bottleneck between the front and rear of the coach. I agreed, but wanted to check out the rear bath to see how it felt.
 What a difference! The coach was wide open and airy. The couches each had a large window and there was a large window over the dinette. In the mid bath, the toilet is mounted above the wheel well which puts you pretty well perched and a bit cramped.
The shower is ok but the bathroom area is rather cramped for us.
 On the rear bath the toilet is nestled in a corner mounted on the floor. No need to be perched on a throne. The shower is very roomy and set in the opposite corner. Closing the door to the bathroom greatly increased the size of the bathroom. Even the clothes closet is in there with you. Plenty of room to dress. Very nice.
 I went back and forth from one unit to another. Took lots of pictures and was convinced my choice based on the pics I saw on line was miss guided. Our choice-The rear bath with the two couches. (I've read comments that the barrel chairs are not a good fit for everyone and I'm very particular about my lounge chairs).
 On September 4, 2014 I paid my deposit and ordered my new 27' charcoal/silver new paint scheme coach with the rear bath. Added an extra solar panel and a few other options and I was set. Todd was a great help to me making wise choices on the extras.
 Then came the wait. With only three chassis in stock, Todd informed me that it would be one year before my unit would be ready for pick up.
 That was quite a bit longer than I had expected, but would actually fit my plans perfectly. (Besides we'd already waited 20 years since our last RV).
 I hope you enjoy your new LD. I'm down to 7 months now so the day is quickly approaching.
 Hope this post wasn't too long (it was I'm sure), but I thought I would just share my thought process with you.

Enjoy the open road.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions
Reply #65 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151113
Hi, Steve & Roxie--

Just got home & back to internet, where I found your message; how nice to hear from you.  My Mac died shortly after I got back from your place (my gosh, that's been over a year?), & it took me several months to get down to the Apple store in Kansas City with our 2014 ice & snow season (though not not as bad as those poor folks back East this year).  The Apple Geniuses told me there was no resurrecting the corpse & the death took all of my contact info into the realm of Not To Be Seen Again.  : >(   Researching The Next Big Thing & trips back to KC basically left me off line for several months, so it's nice to hear from y'all.

Since your contact info died in the Mac, here's mine:     rlbg AT greenhills DOT net.  Again, glad to hear from you.  Have y'all gotten a new baby yet?  2014 had several defugilties, so I didn't get out & about like I'd planned, but I did enjoy the rig even more than I'd expected, the few times I was out, & am looking forward to 2015 being a much better year.

Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now: Re
Reply #66 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151115
A while back, I was looking for the very handy "Reply to Sender" feature that was present on the message board websites before Yahoo "Neo'd" away much of the functionality and clarity. Andy pointed out to me that replying only to an individual was still possible, and described the process:

Click on the Reply button. Click on the "chevron" symbol to the left of the word "Subject" (to the left of the Subject/post title bar). A drop-down menu of "Reply to..." addresses appear; the first address is that of the sender of the message. (The address is truncated, but the recipient is obvious.) Select the recipient, compose the message, click "Send".

Messages not specifically sent to an individual default to the whole board.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #67 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151116
Quote

 On Feb 15, 2015, at 3:15 PM, " [lifewithalazydazerv]"  wrote:

Quote

A while back, I was looking for the very handy "Reply to Sender" feature that was present on the message board websites before Yahoo "Neo'd" away much of the functionality and clarity. Andy pointed out to me that replying only to an individual was still possible, and described the process:

Click on the Reply button. Click on the "chevron" symbol to the left of the word "Subject" (to the left of the Subject/post title bar). A drop-down menu of "Reply to..." addresses appear; the first address is that of the sender of the message. (The address is truncated, but the recipient is obvious.) Select the recipient, compose the message, click "Send".

Messages not specifically sent to an individual default to the whole board.

Joan
Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #68 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151117
Woops - I was testing Joan's instructions, but didn't find what she mentions below ("Reply to Sender" feature) showing up on my Mac.  Joan, is your computer a PC?  On my Mac, there is a "Posted by:" note at the very bottom that shows the name and full address of the poster.  I am using Mail and Earthlink, so all of these factors may play into what any particular individual sees.

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #69 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151119
This won't work for every poster. For example, I tried to reply to one of my messages (using the method you outline below, Joan) and my email address was there. I tried to reply to one of Steve K's messages and his email address was not there. I think this has to  do with how you set up your membership preferences, specifically if you click the option that says something to the effect of "display my email address in group" - and I have exercised that option. I can't swear to this but I think one has to choose that option before one's email address shows up in the "reply to" area. Maybe someone can confirm this or not. It may be something else in this goofy Yahoo system. Steve K, perhaps you could check to see how you have that set up and let us know.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #70 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151120
Judie, I'm using a Mac and reading the messages on the Yahoo website. I'll snap a screenshot and email it to you.

Chris

Apple-interchange-newline">
Quote

A while back, I was looking for the very handy "Reply to Sender" feature that was present on the message board websites before Yahoo "Neo'd" away much of the functionality and clarity. Andy pointed out to me that replying only to an individual was still possible, and described the process:

Click on the Reply button. Click on the "chevron" symbol to the left of the word "Subject" (to the left of the Subject/post title bar). A drop-down menu of "Reply to..." addresses appear; the first address is that of the sender of the message. (The address is truncated, but the recipient is obvious.) Select the recipient, compose the message, click "Send".

Messages not specifically sent to an individual default to the whole board.

Joan
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #71 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151123
Chris, I have my membership set to hide my email address and a "no email" setting as well. You know how paranoid I am;-) I may as well be in the witness protection program!

Steve K. ( enjoying another subzero day hiding out in O-hi-O)
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
 
Re: Was: Thinking about ordering a 2015+ LD, but have questions. Now
Reply #72 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151130
Bummer! Sorry that the instructions didn't work for Judie and Chris and probably more. Yes, I'm on a PC; I wasn't aware that the message board website would function differently on a Mac! (I haven't looked at the rest of my message delivery set-up.) Perhaps the people for whom the process does work can report? :-(

Joan
2003 TK has a new home