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Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Yahoo Message Number: 150430
Hi all,

My wife and I had a wonderful journey in 2014 in my 2004 23.5' LD FD towing 2014 24' Lance 1995 travel trailer.  We are full time RV'er.

Starting from Austin, TX in June 2014 to Ventura, CA then to Portland, WA then to Deer River, Minnesota then to Indy, IN then to MD, then to VA Beach then to Orlando, FL then finally back to Austin, TX on Dec 2014.

The highest gasoline price was $4.55 in CA and cheapest was $2.89 in TX (just saw $2.69 recently here in TX).

My LD had no problem towing 2015 Lance 1995 travel trailer except for parts of mountain drive where I had to shift to 1st gear and bit struggle to go up on steep mountain road (going to ski resort as there is disc golf course there) as I have full fresh water tanks filled on both LD and travel trailer (planning for couple of days of dry docking).  It went as low as 20-25 MPH in those steep mountain grades.

For most part, I would shift down to 2nd gear from 3rd on highway going over those mountain ranges and was able to maintain about 40 to 50 MPH.

However it is going to be last time I have that rig setup as it was too much hassle to back up the trailer into RV sites and too much time un hitch and re hitch.  Also 23.5' LD is kinda too big to just drive around in the towns/city and often most (if not all) RV parks question my two RV rig and they think it should be charged as two sites/two RV but I told them I use LD as tow vehicle so they are ok with it except one in Portland (the one close to Blue Lake which has like over 350 sites) kicked us out completely which kinda screw up our plans but we ended up just fine.  One time it took me about 2 hours to get my trailer out of site due to very tight space of that RV park. (a RV park in Vancouver WA).

So I am planning to get 30' LD IB with Jeep Wrangler so it will be much better for us :)

I do CrossFit so I bring barbells bar, weights, kettle bells etc... with me so I can do workouts on my own.  I even bring Concept 2 D rower with me :)  It is awesome piece of exercise equipment.  I store Concept 2 rower upright on where the barrel chair is next to driver's seat so I just lose one barrel chair.  Since the 30' IB have similar layout as my 23.5' FD so storing that rower will be the same.  Very comfy to do rowing in the LD's "living room" :)

I play lot of disc golf so it is fun to travel and play many different disc golf courses.  I won Grandmaster division (for age 50+) in national deaf tournament in Ventura, CA and placed 50th out of 72 Grandmaster players in Pro Worlds in Portland Oregon.  Man those Pro Grandmaster players are real good!  (most of them play for long time like 15+ years while it is 6th year for me).

2015 trip will be eastern part of USA as I will play deaf national in Georgia in June then Pro Worlds in Pittsburgh, PA in Aug.  Will stay in MD (my old stomping grounds) most of summer.

Jamie 2004 23.5' LD FD soon 2003 30' LD IB
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150437
Jamie,

Curious how much the travel trailer weighed? We have a 23.5 TK and will initially towing our 22' sailboat,(4,600#) from San Diego to Florida in May. How bad did it hurt your mileage?

Thanks in advance,

Don
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150443
We have been traveling full time in our 06 30' IB for over 6 years now. It is difficult to stay under the weight rating for that rig and it would seem that it would be impossible with your plan.

Because of the weight issue we don't have hydraulic levelers, two extra house batteries and a few other odds and ends that I might have otherwise.

Of course, I realize that there must be some room on that weight limit but I don't know what that might be.

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the weight issue.

Jim C
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150444
In my many years ago younger days I worked for a heavy truck training school.
In reference to weight -- the total weight limit is limited by the 'weakest' element in the equipment chain.  For instance the axel may be rated for 20,000 pounds but the springs are rated of 14,000 pounds and the tires (all four on rear axel) rated for 12,500 - you can only load up to 12,500 or else you'll be over the weight limit.   The manufactures rating is based of the factory parts i.e. axel, springs and tries.   If you exceed those limits it will not be the end of the world but at the least you are decreasing the life of the parts and generally putting your and yours at a serous risk.

 glen google.com/+grhafford
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150445
"I do CrossFit so I bring barbells bar, weights, kettle bells etc... with me so I can do workouts on my own.  I even bring Concept 2 D rower with me :)  It is awesome piece of exercise equipment"

Jamie

If switching to a 30-31' LD, you will need to rid yourself of all that stuff, there isn't the CCC available for it.
You have been spoiled with the 2004 23.5' larger cargo capacity. It is just about impossible to overload a 2003+ Baby Daze The 30-31' models are not very good for full timing. Everyone I have ever seen is at or over the GVW.  Your 31' would be overloaded instantly.

Your trailer probably has as much room inside as your 23.5'. and it too probably carries a lot of stuff.  You really might be inline for a much bigger RV, some type of Class A with a lot more CCC and interior room.
A Lazy Daze isn't always the right answer.

You will enjoy having a Jeep for day tripping, as compared to the LD.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150451
The weakest part in our campers are the tires. I had a book from Gates tire and rubber that it was safe to run the tires at 10%+ air.
 When I went to Alaska for 14 weeks I had my 05 24' loaded. Water, gas, food, and luggage. The front axel I had 3780# (State scale); the tires are rated at 5360#. I was 1580 # under max.  The rear axel had 8560#. The tires are rated at 9880#.  I was 1320# under max.

George

Retired plumber
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150477
I would guess my loaded 2014 Lance 1995 trailer weights over 5,000 lbs (dry weight is 3,200 and CCC is 2,000 or so).  I think my MPG is reduced by 2 or so with trailer as I don't use overdrive with trailer.  San Diego to Florida is mostly flat so you should not have problem towing your boat.

Jamie
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150480
I was wondering if there is higher rated tire of same size available?

It is true that we are full timers but we plan to carry "light" in our 2003 30' IB as we keep most of rarely used stuff in storage.

35lbs olympic bar plus 70lbs worth of weights = 105 lbs plus 44 lbs kettle ball.
I weight about 145 lbs and my wife weight about 130 lbs.  I would go to CrossFit box when I want to do some serious heavy front/back squats (160#) and deadlifts (225#) :)

Concept 2 D rower is not that heavy, I was able to pick it up handily so I would guess it weight about 40-50 lbs.  It only takes space of where a barrel chair is (close to driver's seat) when stored upright.
 The rest being clothes, few kitchen stuff, bag of disc golf, basic tools, two chairs and some other things.

I keep holding tanks empty when I travel.  So I think it should be fine.

However Mothership should have Ford F-450/550 chassis for 31' IB/TB floor plan which would be a great fit together.

Jamie
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150481
I agree my 30' IB would be overloaded big time if I pack all of stuff from my 23.5' FD + my Lance 1995 trailer, but I realized I don't use most of those stuff at all.  So I will go really light in my 30' IB.

I weight 145 lbs and my wife weight about 130, barbell set weight 105 total plus 44lbs kettle ball and Concept 2 D rower, I would guess about 50 lbs.

My kitchen would be light as I eat simply (morning smoothies of 5-6 bananas, bunch of kale, scoops of The Ultimate Meal and Sunwarrior Warrior Blend and it last me all day long) and mostly salads and bunch of fruits for dinner.

I think I should be ok but I will weight my motorhome and see how it goes.

Yes Jeep is so much fun, really enjoy driving around in a nice short wheelbase.  Been going to different disc golf courses around Austin when the weather is nice.

Jamie
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150485
Thanks Jamie.  Just for comparison, what is your "normal" MPG with your 23.5 without towing?

Don
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150486
"I was wondering if there is higher rated tire of same size available?" "However Mothership should have Ford F-450/550 chassis for 31' IB/TB floor plan which would be a great fit together."

Jamie

A higher weight rated tire will not increase the GVW by a single pound, the GVW is engineered into the total chassis and cannot be increased.

LD did produce a 30' model on a E550 but production ended early when Ford discontinued the E550 chassis. They had a similar experience with the GM Kodiak and the Chevy GP30.
I doubt if Steve will try it again, he has lost a lot of money developing 3 HD  models and then had the chassis disappear. LD is not in the development mode at the present and probably will not be anytime soon.

The highest rated 31' LD's CCC is around 1800-lbs. That include passengers, food, clothing for all seasons, cooking gear, tools, any add accessories and all the other personal gear that a full timer needs. Weight builds fast.

I suggest taking a day to weight EVERYTHING in both the LD and trailer, making a list of each item. Eliminate everything you think is not necessary and then add the remaining weight to the weight of full tanks of water and propane, plus the towbar. This way you will know how much capacity you really need, eliminating guessing.
 Don't expect the Jeep to hold a lot of extra weight either since it will be at or above the bumper's 4000-lbs weight capacity. Expect the Jeep to gain even more weight when you add the gear one should carry when exploring remote areas.

You can have the bumper and hitch reinforced to pull more weight but you will soon bump into the 20,000-lbs Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).

If you pack super light, you will be sitting at the top of the GVW rating, fully loaded, all the time.
You will need to control the basic human instinct to fill available spaces. The 31' models have all sorts of storage spaces that cannot be filled with much more than the basics unless you collect Styrofoam statues or other lightweight items.

Running overloaded is serious concern and should not be taken lightly.
It wears things out faster, make the rig less safe to drive and exposes you to legal liability in case of an accident. Wise lawyers and accident investigators will have a suspected overloaded RV weighted, after an accident..

Larry

　
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150492
"I was wondering if there is higher rated tire of same size available?" "However Mothership should have Ford F-450/550 chassis for 31' IB/TB floor  plan which would be a great fit together."

Jamie


There is not a higher rated tire in the same size but the LT245/75R16 will add 616# to the rear axle and 724# to the front axle. And all tires in the same size have the same rating. It makes no difference who made them. The tire is .9" wider and 1.2" more Dia. Question? is this enough to keep you in the weight limit you want. And there are a few states that will still go by the decal not your change from what I'm told. But they do not check the weight on MH.

If you check your decal on the door you will see the load you can carry and if you add the ratings of the tires at 80 PSI you will find that they are the same. The tire is your determining factor in this case. I have never seen where the tire was not the limiting factor, but that does not mean it is true in all cases. Tires have not keep up with the weights we need. Now the problem is can you get this tire in the wheel well. Your rims will most likely not fit on the larger tires because they are most likely not wide enough. The new tire needs 6.5" minimum not the 6" that you may have. Then there is the spacing needed between the 2 tires. All this means there is not enough room in the wheel well. If they will not fit you are done.

Now you need to check what the springs and axles are rated at. In most cases they are will above the rating on the new tire size. This information will get you started to make a discussion. You may need new shocks also. The new tires will change your true speed. You will be going about 5 MPH faster than before. It will also affect you shift paddern a little.

The weight limit goes by the lowest limit not the highest.

Another thing but not related to this subject. Do not be afraid to pull into a state scale to have your unit weighed. In most cases they will wave you on since you are not required to be weighted. If you have a passenger have them go in and tell them what you want. I have never been refused and I do it all the time. Even when I KNOW that I was over weight they never checked what my limit was and I have been over weight by more than a few pounds.

George

Retired Plumber.

　
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150496
"The [LT245/75R16] tire is .9" wider"

Doesn't that increase the risk of your rear duallies touching, and wouldn't that be unsafe?

Andy Baird

Travels with Andy
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150498
Michelin has an XPS rib tire of the same size. It has steel sidewall, is more expensive. You will have to see if it has a higher weight rating,
Harry 2006RB
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150499
"The [LT245/75R16] tire is .9" wider"

Doesn't that increase the risk of your rear duallies touching, and wouldn't that be unsafe?

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels


 If you go back and read my posting again you will see that I mentioned that.

"Then there is the spacing needed between the 2 tires
 This is where the room inside the wheel well on a LD is a big problem. 2" wider tires and the room needed between the tires add up.
 The tires are shown for duallie use but the rims need to have the extra off-set for this spacing.

George

Retired Plumber
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150502
Excellent points by Larry.  Less is more!

Good time to make my storage bays much more roomy :)

I used to do SCCA racing for few years and I had really overloaded my racing trailer (two racing cars plus tools etc... and oh man the trailer axles are literally bent.  Not good!

Jamie
 
Re: Around the USA journey with my 2004 23.5' LD FD
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 150509
"If you go back and read my posting again you will see that I mentioned that."

Sorry George--somehow I overlooked that part.

Andy Baird

Travels with Andy
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"