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Topic: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question (Read 3 times) previous topic - next topic
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Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Yahoo Message Number: 144404
The generator is the KY spec K model on a 2009 MB. Fault code is 45, which means that the board can't sense the generator is working (by finding voltage on the Q! Q2 winding, or some such). Is anyone familiar with this problem and can suggest a solution short of "take it to the Onan dealer"? Presently, it seems that is my only option. Thanks much.
Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144411
No one more knowledgable answered so I'll give it my shot. Assuming the generator has not been run monthly the slip rings may have corrosion causing the voltage regulator problems, maybe to the point of failure.

The generator will have to come out, slip rings polished and voltage regulator replaced, if necessary. If you do it yourself the regulator can be bought at Flightsafety. Do a search for flightsafety onan.
Harry
Harry 2006RB
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144415
Thanks, Harry, for the reply.
I have been running the generator every month; I ran it just 3 weeks ago! Gerogia is having a cold snap (wind chills of -15 to -20 in some areas) and wanted to know I had a back up warm place if needed. So, I checked the furnace and then found the generator wouldn't start. I was hoping this was a simple fix, but apparently not. Bummer. I did wonder if this model has an oil pressure switch. The motorhome is at a very slight fore-aft slant (putting the right side of the generator uphill) and the dip stick registers into the crosshatched area about 1/2 way. Flightsafety does not cover the Microquiet series of generators, since it takes "special tools" to access the control board, so DIY troubleshooting is more difficult. It appears that replacement of the control board, or just about anything except changing the oil, requires removal of the generator from the motorhome. I was really hoping this was just a loose connection somewhere that I could find. It would be a real pain to pay $129/hr to Onan to find a simple problem like that.
Along those lines, for those who have had the generator out, are there any precautions I should know about or look out for when they remove the generator? Will it slide out under the motorhome without jacking the motorhome up? If not, where are the jack points?

Thanks again.

Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
Joe Skeen campground reception
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144416
Quote
Quote
  We're planning a trip to Joe Skeen campground in NM this weekend. We'd also like to watch the NFL playoff games. You can see Grants from the campground. Does anyone know if one can get TV reception there?  We have antenna, no satellite. We also have an xfinity app  but don't know if it will carry the games.

Thanks

Quote
Lk in 87 tk
2018 24' Twin King (replacing 1987 22' TK)
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144418
Sorry we were unable to help. You will add to our knowledge base when you get it fixed. Onan jacked up the rear axle till they had clearance when they dropped mine. They did not unhook the AC umbilical completely, just detached it from under the floor for a ways so they could drop it and pull it out from under the coach. They had a support cart with fuel and battery so they could run it in that configuration. My bill was $1600 because a new rotor was required and the brush holder had melted. Welcome to the club of Onan walllet wounded.

If you drop it and remove the cover the problem may be obvious and fixable. I didn't know Flight Safety doesn't have Microquiet parts. I have a second Onan in a Roadtrek and it has caused most of my learning. I don't think the Microquiet has an oil level switch but you could add some.
Harry 2006 RB and 2003 C190P (Roadtrek)
Harry 2006RB
Wind chill
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144419
Quote
  Ah my favorite news story that has no real meaning in the real word.  Wind Chill.......
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

No matter how fast or much the wind blows the object in the wind will not drop below the ambient temperature.  Ie if a glass of water was placed outside in a 30F ambient temperature a wind chill fracture of minus -40 will not cause that glass of water to move 1 (one) degree cooler.

Glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144421
3 weeks should not be enough time to make the gen not run because of gas problems. Do you have enough fuel in the MH tank to run the gen. The tank must be above 1/4 tank. Is the fuel line pluged. Un less I'm wrong the gen is not a pump oil system; they are a splash system. But they may have a low oil sensor that is not for pressure.
 When I was looking at the unit that I bought he could start the gen but it stopped very soon. He filled the tank on the MH and when I went back the gen had no problems then or since.
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144422
Should you choose to drop it yourself look for loose connections in the wiring and abnormalities around the brushes. Are they loose in their holders or stuck. Also look at the surface of the slip rings. A guess right now would be a stuck brush.
Harry 2006RB
Harry 2006RB
Re: Wind chill
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144426
The glass of water does not generate heat, so "wind chill" is not applied to it. People, however, can feel the increased loss of heat when the wind blows, so it does have meaning for us, and might have some value for any heated object, like evan a house. It doesn't help me very much, however, as I have no idea what temperatures below -5F feel like, since that's the coldest I've experienced outdoors.

Eric Greenwell

Tf Hafford wrote, On 1/6/2014 7:33 AM:
2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144428
Harry and milehi..., Thanks for the responses. But... gas tank is full, so that's not the problem (I always leave the tank full to help prevent condensation and add Stabil). I can't get a real answer about the oil pressure switch. My Onan references say  something to the effect of "if your generator is supplied with a low pressure switch." Write one book and try to make it work for several generators; not helpful. Grrrrrr. (calm down....calm down... :) I don't have the tools to drop the generator, so it looks like a trip to the Onan dealer, after it warms a little. 5 degrees this morning in GA at my house. It's cold outside. Time to start a fire in the woodstove.
Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144433
Hi Ken, If your fuel is above 1/2 tank and it spins or cranks normally, and it's above 40 degrees in your storage, you may need to drop the gen to figure this out. I use my hydraulic coach jacks to lift the coach, to get access to my emerald gen While the coach is elevated I lower it on a floor jack. I suspect the cold may be the issue, What is the temperature of your storage area?

Sent by wireless
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144435
Well, Don. It's possible you have hit upon the answer, it's cold. The temperature was/has been below 40 during the entire episode. The temps should be near 60 by this weekend. I'll see if it starts then.
Thanks, and I'll report back if that was the issue. If there were an oil pressure switch, and being (maybe) 1/2 Qt low on oil, and the cold, I can see the generator not creating enough oil pressure to allow the gen to sense proper oil pressure and not run. (A long sentence, but I think you get the idea.) Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
Re: Wind chill
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144438
It's true that inanimate objects will not fall below the surrounding temperature.  We currently have had -15F for a couple nights.  With no wind, your face "glows" at a reasonable temperature well above freezing and discomfort is minimal. But when the wind increases, this strips away the comfort layer of warm air near your skin and replaces it with -15F air.  Your body responds by sending more blood to this exposed skin to keep the area warm.  The wind chill factor is what your skin is experiencing in heat loss.  So with high wind, your skin "feels" the same as a no-wind condition of -45F.  It's not as comfortable for Bikini wearers in high winds at -15F as it would be under calm conditions.
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144439
Ken at 5 degrees the gen oil, usually 30 wt will be thick like tar! This may cause adverse oil pressure switch operation and prohibit operation! Just a hunch but well worth waiting for this crazy cold snap to pass. Let us know, and good luck!

Sent by wireless
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144440
If the generator cranks over but will not start, I'd do the following.
 With a suitable small container held below the carb, remove the screw on the side of the carb bowl to drain any fuel in the bowl.

Replace screw.
 Attempt to start the generator and this should turn on the fuel pump, refilling the carb float bowl.

Again, remove drain screw and check to see if more fuel drains out.

If it does that, fuel delivery to the carb is not an issue.
 If it doesn't refill with fuel, it is simple to remove the fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carb (has wires going to it so disconnect those first). When removed, carb bowl will drop down, there's a spacer in the bottom of bowl, so do this slowly and note position of parts. Test solenoid on the bench by applying 12 volt power and it should operate. If not, disassemble, clean, and try again.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144443
1. I don't think the microquiet 4kw has an oil level switch.
2. Once an error code is determined the ignition is disabled.
3. Error code 45 would make me look at the brushes and slip rings.

As I understand it the oil level switch was removed in later models for several reasons. One was the generator tended to quit if running when the vehicle was in motion and made a turn. Another was that when it failed the repair required generator engine disassembly. It could be disabled by cutting the proper wire.

I am open to being corrected on any of those items as I am not an authority on the subject. Item 2 I learned first hand.
Harry 2006 RB
Harry 2006RB
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144445
Harry, I, too, think the problem is primarily electrical in nature. As long as I hold down the start switch, the generator runs, making me think its getting fuel.
Item 2 is interesting. I assume you mean that, _during the starting sequence_, if an error code is determined, the ignition is disabled. My first thought was that if an error code was determined, and the starting sequence tried again, ignition was locked out until the error code was reset externally. (I don't see a way to do that.) But now I think you mean that when I try a second start sequence, the generator re-determines the error code and stops the ignition. If I'm interpreting correctly, that really puts all electronics in question; control board/voltage regulator, brushes, slip rings, and any other sensors. Since the generator has only around 100 hrs (I don't remember exactly how many), I suspect the most likely culprit is a bad connection to either the brushes, slip rings, or control board. Unfortunately, I have to drop the generator to check that. At least, I think I do. Mostly, I just hate the idea of paying $129/hr to someone to find a loose connection that takes 5 minutes to fix. :)  Yeah, I'm cheap.

Thanks, all.
Ken
Former 2009 MB owner
 
Re: Microline 4000 Generator won't run question
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 144446
My experience with the KV version tells me that when the engine quits running when the start key is released it is usually caused by the lack of 120volts at the generator output. The generator must come out. This would match your error code. Playing with it too much could fry the $400 voltage regulator.

My experience with the KY is that the engine would not run even with the start button pressed. Can't remember what error code I had. It may have been 32-generator off frequency. It was caused by bumps in the slip rings causing the brushes to bounce, spark, overheat, and melt the plastic brush holder. Repair was $1615 including remove and replace.

Sears is now selling a motorcycle lift/jack for $109. It looks exactly like the jack the local Onan repair place used to lower my generator. This does not solve the problem of raising the coach for clearance. Personally I would make ramps for all four wheels to get the clearance. I don't know how much more clearance you need. Mine is parked against a brick wall and I can't measure. Harbor Freight has one, too.

We will now wait for your more knowledgeable results as you will eventually get it running. We have done our guessing. There are some pretty good trouble shooters here but apparently no experienced Onan repair techs.
Harry
Harry 2006RB