leveling jacks December 04, 2013, 03:32:34 am Yahoo Message Number: 143914I will soon be adopting a new-to-me '05 31' TB, & am getting almost giddy. :-) I've so enjoyed the conversations & willingness to share knowledge/experience/commiseration/etc. that I've seen on this site, and so would appreciate thoughts/discussion about leveling jacks.Years ago my dad built his own blocks from 2X6s...but he also had Mother standing behind the rig yelling directions at him; I am a single woman & will be solo most of the time. One woman told me she thought she needed jacks but was pleasantly surprised at how easily the Lynx blocks worked for her, & cautioned about the weight the jacks would add (& therefore reduce CCC on a 31' rig).Thanks, in advance-- Lynne
Re: leveling jacks Reply #1 – December 04, 2013, 08:19:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 143915Congratulations on the adoption. I really like having the hydraulic levelers on my 1999 31" IB. Easy up, easy down, no worries. I'm not qualified to speak to the weight caution, but my opinion is, I don't think it's a big deal. Best of times....Rick
Re: leveling jacks Reply #2 – December 04, 2013, 11:41:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 143916"One woman told me she thought she needed jacks but was pleasantly surprised at how easily the Lynx blocks worked for her, & cautioned about the weight the jacks would add (& therefore reduce CCC on a 31' rig)."And that's it in a nutshell. Jacks are very convenient, but they add weight that you can ill afford with your 31-footer. And they are one more thing to go wrong: if you can't retract them, you aren't going anywhere.Lynx leveling blocks are lightweight, inexpensive, and easy to deploy. Plenty of us solo full-timers use them routinely. They're also the best traction aid I've ever found--better than sand, cat litter, or commercial traction mats. I've used them several times to get out of muddy situations.Lynx blocks are what I'd recommend for your situation. I carry three bags of ten in my rig, and a additional bag in my car. (That's not only for spares, but also in case the car gets stuck.) Most Walmarts carry Lynx blocks; they cost about $30 per bag of ten.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: leveling jacks Reply #3 – December 04, 2013, 04:59:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143922We have had two 31' LD motorhomes and had Kwikee power levelers installed on the first one because they were factory recommended. They were terrible and were ultimately replaced with HWH levelers. We also had HWH levelers installed on the second one. Positives include ease of use (push a button), which is especially nice when it's windy, rainy, cold, dark, etc., leveling convenience when parked for a short time such as at a rest stop for lunch, great stability when parked in the wind, and enhanced value for the motorhome. Yes, they do add weight, and are expensive. But, we do weigh our motorhome and have never had an overloaded weight problem even with the levelers. We are two people traveling without pets and are selective as to what we take with us because, yes, Lazy Daze is a little short on storage space. We have never had mechanical problems I suppose because they are serviced regularly. If they do get stuck in the down position (ours never have) they are manually retractable. All-in-all we recommend them especially for the longer 31' model. Hope this helps. Gale
Re: leveling jacks Reply #4 – December 04, 2013, 08:54:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143931Lynne, I am going to rehash some of the other posts, with minor differences. I travel solo in a 27' Midbath. I had Quadra Bigfoot levelers installed on mine. I also carry a number of 10" squares of plywood of varying thickness from 3/4" to over 2", as well as a series of 12"x4"x4" crib blocks. That is probably overkill, but I am fine on weight with my rig fully loaded. Remember, I have more CCC available than you do with your 31' unit. As I see it, here are the pros and cons. We can't tell you what is right for you - you will have to decide.Hydraulic Leveler PROs Push button leveling, great in nasty weather. Extreme flexibility - I have taken sites and leveled my rig in places that Andy would never be able to use. My front wheels have been almost a foot off the ground, after using a combination of the hydraulics and blocks under the tires and the jacks. Roadside emergencies - I can change a flat by raising one side off the ground. Stuck tire - Like with a flat, I can put a wood block under the lifts, raise the tire that is in a hole, and shovel dirt into the hole or place several wood blocks there, then lower the rig and drive out. Stability - My levelers take the suspension out of the system when I am set up someplace. When cross wind is hitting me, as it was today, my rig does not move, while a rig on blocks does move. I am sure the limited movement is not an issue for most, but if you are very sensitive to motion sickness it might be something to consider.Hydraulic Leveler CONs Mechanical failure - I haven't experienced this, but it could happen. If they failed in the down position, the levelers could be lifted by opening one of the hydraulic fittings, then levering the plate up. That would be a royal pain, but I would not be totally helpless. Weight - There are 4 jacks and a pump in my system. It probably adds something between 200 and 300 pounds to my rig.Leveling blocks PROs Andy said it well - they are easy to use and do a good job as long as the site you choose is sufficiently level. They are inexpensive, very much so in comparison to hydraulic levelers. They are versatile. Andy pointed out using them for leveling as well as for traction in mud or snow. I would bet that more uses could be found for them - turning them over and using them to hold parts, lug nuts, etc, so the parts don't get lost in grass, mud or snow, etc. Leveling Block CONs If a site is very tilted or uneven, the blocks won't get your rig level. If it is nasty out, you won't be very happy about figuring out how many to use where, getting them placed, and getting your rig on them. Still, as Andy said, lots of people manage quite well with them. I wonder, if one were to set up on a wet muddy surface and it turns cold, will the blocks be frozen to the ground? I am not suggesting that that is a problem; others would know more about that.Cautions Others have pointed out that there are cheap knock-offs of Lynx Levelers out there. They are subject to failure. Be sure to get the good ones. Be careful to position the blocks so your tires are fully supported by them, not half on and half off, and that means both inner and outer tires in the rear, not just the outer tire. Here is what I would suggest - Get your rig, load it fully with everything you see yourself carrying, fill the fresh water and gas tanks, and get it weighed. Compare that weight to the allowable axle weights for your rig. You then will know if hydraulic levelers are possible. If you have sufficient CCC reserve, you can then decide whether you want to incur the weight and expense to gain the convenience of them. If you do NOT have sufficient reserve, there is nothing to decide, and it cost you nothing to find your answer - you will be using blocks.Best of luck with your TB.Ken F in NM
Re: leveling jacks Reply #5 – December 04, 2013, 10:28:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143934Hi, Ken--Thanks for such a good summary of all that I'd been gathering in my head. I think I am still generally leaning toward the "yes" column, and I especially liked your suggestion of loading/weighing before making a final decision. I'd thought of carrying some plywood squares, but hadn't seen anyone else mention it--your response confirmed that as something I will do.My dad never talked about weighing their Class A/CCC/etc., but one of the things I like about this site is all that I've been learning before I made the decision to leap--so I knew weighing/figuring CCC was part of my learning curve. Unfortunately, I won't really have it loaded 'til I get back to MO. AMTRAK will let me check two bags + two carry-ons, so I'm bringing what I can (hammer/pliers/small socket set/voltmeter/linens for one/laptop/a few things for cooking & eating/misc etc.), but I will add other things when I get back & then have it weighed. I have an appointment for a good going over at the Mothership before I head east, but if I wait to load/weigh it back here in MO, how would I have levelers put on here, since LD has no dealer network?I've seen references to both Bigfoot & HWH. Gale said they were dissatisfied with the Kwikee levelers they installed on their first 31' LD (per recommendation from the Mothership), replaced with HWH, & installed HWH when they got their second 31' LD. What was your decision process that led you to the Bigfoot system?Thanks, again, for your helpful response--I'd not thought about the advantages for changing a tire, getting myself out of a hole, stability in the wind...so much to learn--but way more fun than running away to join the circus. :-)Lynne
Re: leveling jacks Reply #6 – December 04, 2013, 11:11:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143936Hi Lynne: I have a small 24 ft Twin-King, so don't feel the need for automatic leveling jacks. So far the Lynx blocks have worked OK for me. There are different brands, and they have dealers around the country that will install them for you. I don't think the Mothership actually does it themselves. When you get back home, just locate the nearest one to you that uses the brand you prefer. Hope you enjoy the new to you LD.
Re: leveling jacks Reply #7 – December 04, 2013, 11:25:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143937LynneYou do need to weight your rig fully loaded to see if you have any CCC left before making a final decision. Most 31' LDs are near or over the GVW, unless the owner is very conscientious about loading. 31' models have too much tempting storage space for the limited CCC. Also consider if you want to run at or near a maximum load all the time.If you plan on boondocking in remote places, learn how to manually retract a inoperative jack. It's something I have done a few times and it's never easy, safe or pleasant, even for an experienced mechanic. If you do get hydraulic levelers, search for the best, highly experienced installer available, IMO, poor installations cause as many problems as mechanical failure. Well designed and installed hydraulics systems should be capable of thousands of cycles, without failure, with nothing more than periodic fluid chances. Kwikee levelers are no longer being sold, for good reasons. Both Big Foot and HWH are reputable companies, with installers located in various locations across the country. There is no good reason why they need to be installed in California.Two leveling ramps, a couple stacks of Lynx blocks and a couple plywood squares have served us for 18 years and 135,000 miles of LD ownership. Owning a short LD, with its limited storage, forces us to keep the gear at a minimum.http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/1416451648/in/set-72157602095132726 Learn to look over a parking area over carefully to take advantage of the terrain. Most LDs sit lower in the front, always park facing uphill, if possible, to minimize the need to level. If a site is to steep to get level, move or dig a hole or two. Mount a set of bubble levels that are viewable from the drivers seat. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/231104149600?lpid=82 To check the front to back and side to side level, we have one on the driver's door and the other on the dash There is no need to have levelers installed immediately, buy a couple bags of Lynx blocks and see how it goes. I put hydraulic levels in the same class as slides, wonderful mechanical devices when they work, not so much fun when they don't. How much extra complexity do you want?Larry
Re: leveling jacks Reply #8 – December 05, 2013, 12:22:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 143942I endorse everything Ken said. As usual, he lays out the pros and cons dispassionately and completely.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: leveling jacks Reply #9 – December 05, 2013, 04:10:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 143944Hi Lynn, Should you go with Big Foot or HTH, you may want to consider the clearance left under your vehicle too. I have BF, but HTH may give more clearance. I use steep driveways sometimes.We love the convenience of the BF.Diane Carlson Lansing, MI2004 MB Deja Blue
Re: leveling jacks Reply #10 – December 05, 2013, 08:23:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 143945Good summary Ken. Like you, I have been very happy we installed the Big Foot Levelers. We went 2-3 years on our 2001 RB using leveling blocks and are much happier with the hydraulic levelers. They are much easier to use, particularly in bad weather, and as mentioned do allow you to level in really bad places by using blocks under the leveler pads when needed.BarryFrom: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:52 PM To:lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Subject: [LD] Re: leveling jacksLynne, I am going to rehash some of the other posts, with minor differences.
Re: leveling jacks Reply #11 – December 05, 2013, 08:41:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 143946Lynn, I also agree with most all other comments but want to make a few extra points. I had the BigFoot EZE jack system added to our (then new) 2010 Rear Bath at the Big Foot facility in Lakeland, FL as soon as I returned home from taking delivery of the coach in April 2010. The EZE system uses one hydraulic pump for four jacks as opposed to four pumps that Ken has. The EZE system is much lighter and less expensive ($2500 +/-). Because of this, you should have little or no issues with the coach weight. We have put on over 56,000 miles all across North America using the jacks almost daily without the first problem. I do carry eight 8" X 10" X 2" wood blocks if extra height is needed for leveling or changing a tire. The jacks will more than support the entire weight of the coach which I have done when replacing all the tires. There is no fear of the coach falling off the jacks as there would be with the HWH folding jacks. I have the control panel in a plastic box on the end of a wire harness that comes from the back of the driver's seat. With bubble levels on the driver's door and dash I easily manually do the leveling out the weather. When finished, I leave the control box on the seat to remind me that the jacks are down. I have never had clearance issues with the raised jacks. I did request that the pump be powered from the engine battery instead of the coach batteries as I can keep the engine running while operating the jacks. As we dry camp a lot, I want as much coach battery capacity available for that purpose. Hope this helps in your decision, Mike
Re: [LD] Re: leveling jacks Reply #12 – December 05, 2013, 08:48:56 am Yahoo Message Number: 143947Levelers aren't specific to Lazy Daze or any other motorhome (and, as has already been mentioned, Lazy Daze doesn't install them, anyway). Any competent installer can install levelers on any motorhome, including Lazy Daze. As far as Lazy Daze having no dealer network, that doesn't make any difference. Each appliance in your motorhome has its own warranty and can be repaired at any qualified RV service center. If you have to have a Lazy Daze-specific item repaired, the RV service center will get in touch with Lazy Daze and get the OK for the repairs...and, as long as its under warranty...at no cost to you (this happened to us when we had an electrical problem with our Lazy Daze and it was repaired in Spokane, WA at no cost to us).Linda HyltonFrom: RitaLynne Broyles-GreenwoodSent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:27 PM To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.combut if I wait to load/weigh it back here in MO, how would I have levelers put on here, since LD has no dealer network?
Re: leveling jacks Reply #13 – December 05, 2013, 11:36:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 143948Lynne, we are expecting to pick up our 31 IB in Feb/March. Regarding Amtrak (and Southwest Air)- we will be shipping UPS cartons to the Mothership for indispensables to avoid xport fees. That might work for you.safe journeys joelFrom: RitaLynne Broyles-Greenwood To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [LD] Re: leveling jacks
Re: leveling jacks Reply #14 – December 05, 2013, 12:47:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143952Having a dealer network isn't always a good thing. Our neighbor was happy that his new Monaco was destroyed in a hurricane and insurance allowed him to be more selective in choosing a new dealer and RV. He had a long list of "fixes" covered under warranty and the dealer did shoddy repairs and dragged everything beyond the warranty period. He purchased the original motorhome through a well know national chain that most of us have learned to avoid!Karen
Re: leveling jacks Reply #15 – December 05, 2013, 02:51:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143957Lynne: It's good to see the variety of responses and opinions on power levelers. One thing Larry mentioned is worth repeating....quality installation is equally as important as the levelers themselves. I have had both bad (Camping World) and good (HWH factory) and certainly agree that poor installation causes as many problems as mechanical breakdown. Whatever brand you choose try and have the installation done at their factory, or ask them for a referral near where you live. It's worth the time and trouble. Gale
Re: leveling jacks Reply #16 – December 05, 2013, 03:37:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143958Hi, Joel--Thanks for the thought. The seller also offered to let me use his address for a drop point. I'm not doing any sightseeing this trip--gotta get back to MO (where "normal" people would not be going this time of year...especially if they were already someplace sunny & warm), so I hope to get by with the bare bones, get things kitted out with what I've already got back here, & then figure out what other things I need/want. I especially appreciate the advice from many that I can add the leveling jacks back here if I go that way.Have fun with your new baby, & safe journeys to you--Lynne
Re: leveling jacks Reply #17 – December 05, 2013, 04:01:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143959Hi, Karen--Indeed...when I first started this process I naively thought a dealer would provide some level of support. I came to realize exactly what you said...in fact, felt I was more likely to get "taken" if I went with a dealer. After considerable running in circles, I happened across LD, & then this site. Reading the discussions & seeing how folks talked each other through various issues led me to believe this was the place I needed to be. I guess I was really thinking about authorized service centers, rather than a dealer network--but I see folks on this site provide recommendations for various service providers, which I now think that will be much useful.Thanx-- Lynne
Re: leveling jacks Reply #18 – December 05, 2013, 04:21:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 143961Thanks, Gale
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