Nightmare from Winnebago August 17, 2013, 07:25:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142065http://rvtravel.com/?q=rv-travel-newsletter-issue599 Read the Editor's Corner in this issue of RVTravel and follow the links to the problem he discusses. I think it's safe to say no one will ever have this problem at Lazy Daze.Chris H
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #1 – August 17, 2013, 09:28:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142071I read the whole saga. The sad part: this was a $400,000 (!) motorhome, yet it came with scores of defects, including serious ones such as a bent front suspension. The sadder part: Winnebago flat-out told the couple that the company can't build a motorhome without major defects, so take it or leave it. The saddest part: This couple still wants to buy a new Winnebago. They're hoping that somehow the second time around, they'll magically get a good one. :: sigh :: Oh, and to top it off... Winnebago employees posted badly-spelled nastygrams to the couple's website, accusing them of being "a lone crack pot" who "was probably dumped a few too many times in high school and is taking it out on Winneabago [sic]". Really classy, guys.hugs, Andy
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #2 – August 18, 2013, 06:26:38 am Yahoo Message Number: 142074This certainly isn't good PR for Winnebago (I haven't read the entire story). We live near their headquarters in Iowa so their product is everywhere out here in Minnesota. Prior to buying our '99 RB last Fall, we looked at new Winnebago RVs. Our price range (less than $100,000) is their "entry level" line and quality was questionable. Apparently their belief is that if you are only willing to spend $85,000 on an RV, you shouldn't expect much! I believe the line we looked at was Impulse which would compare to LD as far as Class C, size, price range etc. If I was going to consider Winnebago in the future, I'd look for a well maintained used unit. Nonetheless, I wouldn't base my decision soley on this story as it does seem like kind of an odd one! The buyers may be crazy, after all, they are willing to spend $400,000 on an RV!Todd Minnesota
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #3 – August 18, 2013, 10:19:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 142076AND, if it's on the Internet it must be true .Dave W
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #4 – August 18, 2013, 11:16:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 142078A very interesting article and situation, but what did Mr. Bott accomplish by "going public" with his problems. It isn't going to get him the rig he wants and certainly will not get Winnebago to change their production methods, etc. (Even though he invites people to email Winnebago on the subject.) Unfortunately from Chuck Woodbury's column and the blog we see only one side of the story. We really don't know how, and in "what tone of voice", Mr. Bott approached trying to resolve his issues. "How something is done" often has a major influence on the results obtained. The fact that the Winnebago PR person would not comment on the situation is standard marketing practice. Also the fact that Winnebago "tossed in the towel" is not surprising. If a customer becomes a real PITA the major objective is often not to make the customer happy but to "get this guy out of our hair." Obviously the rig had significant quality issues. These issues are one thing, however, the weight issue is something else. This was a "custom order" rig and we don't know what "options" (other than special paint) were installed. IMHO Mr. Bott did not do enough homework. As an experienced motorhome owner he should be aware of weight issues and asked hard questions about the subject before placing the order. It is common knowledge that may motorhomes have very limited, or non-existent, cargo carrying capacity. "I think it's safe to say no one will ever have this problem at Lazy Daze." Agree, that Lazy Daze probably would not respond in a manner similar to the reported response of Winnebago. Also with LD you are dealing directly with the builder and not with a dealer. In the real world there is often a major difference between the "product built by the manufacturer" and the "product being sold by a dealer." This difference is not limited to RV's. Any product manufacturing company undergoes changes over the years as they try to respond to market needs (Winnebago and LD included). Winnebago started out as a builder of Class C rigs but if you look at their current products the focus is definitely on Class A things. IMHO Winnebago does not consider the "$400k rig" in question to be a "luxury coach." It is a "bread and butter" rig. Perhaps one of LD's strong points is that they don't try to be the "latest & greatest." If you tour the Winnebago factory in Forest City, IA, it is a far different scene than at LD; more like the production lines at Ford, GM. etc. It is easy to see how product quality might suffer unless they have a very strong quality control function. Evidently these controls are lacking.Doug[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #5 – August 18, 2013, 11:25:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 142080$400K for a motorhome...wow.
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #6 – August 18, 2013, 11:31:56 am Yahoo Message Number: 142081That's on the low end. Try $2-million for a Prevost conversion.Dick
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #7 – August 18, 2013, 11:51:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 142083"I wouldn't base my decision soley on this story as it does seem like kind of an odd one!"Unfortunately, there's nothing unusual about this story. I just looked over the RV Consumer Group's quality ratings for Winnebago class A motorhomes. On a scale of zero to five stars, most got one or two stars. A few models got as many as three and a half stars. By comparison, RVCG rated the majority of Lazy Daze models five stars, with a couple of the thirty-footers getting four stars. In other words, the *worst* lazy Dazes are better than the *best* Winnebagos... and most Winnebagos are just plain poor. The only thing surprising about this story is that the couple involved still wants to buy a Winnebago motorhome, hoping against all evidence that they will somehow get a good one next time. The oft-quoted definition of insanity applies here.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #8 – August 18, 2013, 12:19:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142085I don't think their going to get the kind of quality and attention to detail they're demanding when going with a mass producer of motorhomes. They should spend more and go with a quality coach builder such as Foretravel.Neal
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #9 – August 18, 2013, 12:56:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142087"Unfortunately from Chuck Woodbury's column and the blog we see only one side of the story. We really don't know how, and in "what tone of voice", Mr. Bott approached trying to resolve his issues. "How something is done" often has a major influence on the results obtained." This is what I thought when I read this story several weeks ago. I would not discount buying a Winnebago (or any brand) based on one dissatisfied customer, particularly when we don't know the "whole story."Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #10 – August 18, 2013, 12:59:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142088"I just looked over the RV Consumer Group's quality ratings for Winnebago class A motorhomes. On a scale of zero to five stars, most got one or two stars. A few models got as many as three and a half stars." Yes, it's too bad that the buyer didn't first check out the RVCG's ratings. We've never bought an RV that we didn't first check out their ratings.Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #11 – August 18, 2013, 01:02:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142089Got to add my 2 cents worth here.....After owning four different Lazy Daze motorhomes over the past 27 years we finally made the decision to buy a larger motorhome because we are spending a lot more time on the road. We have taken many RV caravan trips over the past 10 years and talked with many owners of other rigs. Two things always came out: Winnebago's aren't very good and don't buy one, and the Tiffin family makes quality RV's just like Lazy Daze does. I've had a couple of conversations over the years with Ed and more recently with Steve about slideouts. As you know Lazy Daze has always been very anti-slides and that's never going to change. Ed told me "there will never be a slide in a Lazy Daze". Steve said it's mostly due to cost and not really worth it considering the limited number of RV's they produce each year (fewer now). We made the decision to tread-in our beautiful Lazy Daze for a 34' Tiffin with two slides, one for the dinette and one for the bed. The room inside makes an amazing difference when you're parked, plus the Tiffin comes with quite a few amenities absent on Lazy Daze (and other Class C's), like a nice LazyBoy type chair which works because of the slide. And, yes, you can move around when the slides are in, not a lot different then our 31' LD. All in all we believe it was a good decision for us. If Lazy Daze would build a stronger unit with a slide I'd still be driving one! Gale
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #12 – August 18, 2013, 01:15:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142091My first motorhome was a Winnebago, spent more time under it than driving it ! I've been to and thru the factory NUMEROUS times (wife is from Iowa)', and feel that their state of the art assembly line production is probably the best out there. Is it perfect, not a chance, is it better than most STUFF out of Elkhart, I think so. I also have owned 2 GMC motorhomes, probably the 2 worst I ever had, certainly not the cheapest. Oh, my experience with Winnebago dates back to 1977, I believe it was a 1975 model, and the problems were ALL with the Dodge chassis, none with the coach. The GMC was a piece of ....thru and thru, poorly engineered, built, and supported. Now to the Lazy Daze, my 06 has been inside, or under cover except when on the road. I am presently removing the sealing stuff or ne roof getting ready to reseal. The designed, and built-in lake on the cab over had finally broke the seal on the puckey. The ABS edge caps are cracked at nearly every joint in the skin. The Black tank has a nice shelf built in, to hold the solid stuff up out of the liquid so it can harden. &&& I've had very few problems with the chassis. The LD is NOT an assembly line coach, and I think it is GREAT! Is it perfect...NO ! Is it better than a Winnebago, maybe. LD is one of the best produced by an industry that is acknowledged (even by insiders....what was Warren Buffet's response when asked about quality ?) to produce, and sell cr*p ! Please come back Bob Lee !!Dave W
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #13 – August 18, 2013, 01:42:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142094In 2007 when I was researching motorhomes, trailers and fifth wheels I spent a lot of time on forums for the various makes. It wasn't until I got to LD that I found many satisfied customers. Moreover, based on what I have read over the following years suggests that to one degree or another Mr. Bolt's experience isn't unusual with a great many makes and models. My impression is that it is an industry norm. I have spoken to several owners of other models and I always am surprised how accepting they are of the many problems with their units. They accept poor or mediocre quality as a given. That said, I realize that there are a few Class A builders that make a good quality product. I would likely choose a Foretravel as someone else here mentioned. There seem to be a small number of builders in most categories of RVs that make a good quality product. It takes some work to find that out. In the end, I wanted to travel and enjoy my RV not having to deal with constant headaches and so far our LD accomplished that.Jim C
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #14 – August 18, 2013, 02:12:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142097lawgnw@... wrote: If Lazy Daze would build a stronger unit with a slide I'd still be driving one! --- Perhaps they might consider this if an appropriate chassis were available; remember the Kodiak debacle? However, I really doubt it; once burned.....As ever, YMMV.Joan
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #15 – August 18, 2013, 08:02:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142103I did ask Todd one time if LD would consider the 362HP Triton V-10. He told me they would like to use it, but it will not fit the Ford chasis they currently use. So why not move to a different chassis which could include a slide? And, yes, I do remember the Kodiak situation. As it happens I was
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #16 – August 18, 2013, 08:20:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142106lawgnw@... wrote: I did ask Todd one time if LD would consider the 362HP Triton V-10. He told me they would like to use it, but it will not fit the Ford chasis they currently use. So why not move to a different chassis which could include a slide? --- Do you have (a) specific chassis in mind?Joan
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #17 – August 18, 2013, 08:42:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142107Is that the front wheel drive GMC you're talking about, Dave, or one of the rear wheel drive coaches made on the GMC chassis? Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:15 am (PDT) . Posted by: "River_Rd" River_Rd My first motorhome was a Winnebago, spent more time under it than driving it ! I've been to and thru the factory NUMEROUS times (wife is from Iowa)', and feel that their state of the art assembly line production is probably the best out there. Is it perfect, not a chance, is it better than most STUFF out of Elkhart, I think so. I also have owned 2 GMC motorhomes, probably the 2 worst I ever had, certainly not the cheapest. Oh, my experience with Winnebago dates back to 1977, I believe it was a 1975 model, and the problems were ALL with the Dodge chassis, none with the coach. The GMC was a piece of ....thru and thru, poorly engineered, built, and supported.Dave W[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #18 – August 18, 2013, 11:35:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142110I had the old front wheel drive models. I had 2 of the 23' models, one was with
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #19 – August 18, 2013, 11:45:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142112"I had the old front wheel drive models." As I recall, the Oldsmobile Toronado FWD drivetrain used in those GMC coaches was not exactly renowned for its reliability. ;-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Nightmare from Winnebago Reply #20 – August 19, 2013, 06:37:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 142119That+....the entire roof piece was attached to the side walls using a few (usually lfewer than 20) steel sheet metal screws into aaluminum channel. Sparce urethane insulation , and I mean SPARCE ! And I could continue. The LD is far from perfect, but it is also far, FAR from this bad. And I suspect the Winne would fall somewhere
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