SeeLevel II November 28, 2012, 03:24:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135418I had a SeeLevel II added to my rig in October by Mike Sylvester. Initially, all seem to work, except the LPG would need to be programed when I topped it off. Upon leaving Albuquerque, the black tank got an error code and hadn't worked since. I now know how to re-program that. But I just discovered that my water tank can hold far more gallons of water when it reads 100% on the SeeLevel. I again, contacted Mike S. for help on how to re-program it as that info is not in the manual. The manual talks about the sensors and I'm not touching the sensors - just trying to get an accurate reading. I can tell you when this was installed, the water tank was not full (saw the visual of the tank), the black tank wasn't emptied, the grey tank we did empty and I had assumed the readout is correct on that. LPG was not full and had asked him to go for 100% vs 80% and he gave me instructions on how to program that when I refilled. Now Mike is telling me if the readouts don't show an error message - they are correct. Well they are not. And I would greatly appreciate some help on this. Do others have issue with there SeeLevel's? Or am I the only one thinking I wasted BIG money on this? I guess I should just re-program this and just assume its as bad as what is installed in the LD.Melinda 2011 27'MB
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #1 – November 28, 2012, 04:11:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135423"my water tank can hold far more gallons of water when it reads 100% on the SeeLevel"The SeeLevel II system uses capacitive sensors attached to the side of each tank. Each sensor must be cut to match the height of the tank. However, each sensor can only be cut to a length that is some multiple of 1.5 inches, so in general it's impossible to get an exact fit. That means the gauge probably won't cover the full range of the tank. For example, when the SeeLevel II gauge shows my fresh water tank is 100% full, I can still get a few more gallons into it. That's OK; I care more about when the level is low.Howard
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #2 – November 28, 2012, 06:09:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135433Well it is now where near as bad as what was installed. Have you actually measured what several gallons is. They can't measure what you put in that is above the sight level of the Gage's. and you can put some in the full tube maybe but it should be a small percent of a full tank. And once you go below the level of the top of the gage sensor then you should be linear on downSent from Garry's iPhone
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #3 – November 28, 2012, 08:29:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135436The water and waste tank sensors calibrate themselves. If the size or shape of your water tank is such that the top of the sensor does not reach the top of the tank, perhaps a 100% reading would exist until the water level drops to the top of the sensor. Personally, that would not bother me. My concern for the fresh water tank is when it is getting low. The other two tanks are the reverse - my concern is when they are getting near full. My fresh water reads 97% when full and 6% when empty. I know when my grey water indication reaches 100%, I can fit one more shower in the tank. The SeeLevel units are neither perfect nor exact, but they are much more accurate and reliable than the factory-supplied indications.Ken F in NM
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #4 – November 29, 2012, 10:20:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 135448Will try a different approach... When I last filled the water tank, seeing that it hit 100%, I was returning to the other side of my rig to turn off the water, when I was side-tracked by another. When I remember I still hadn't turned off the water, ran back and nothing was pouring out of my fresh water tank. That peaked my curiosity and I let it continue filling until it did. Since I had no real idea how much extra was added. I was curious if I needed to re-program it and I asked. To further add to this mystery.. I am on day 6 of boon docking, and water still reads 100%. The first 3 days, I was not conserving. So can someone tell me what is a realistic *low* number I should be concerned with? If this is truly self-calibrating then something is amiss in my opinion. As it did not re-calibrate on its own. And would re-programing the read-out - would it help? Or make no difference?Melinda 2011 27' MB
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #5 – November 29, 2012, 11:19:28 am Yahoo Message Number: 135450"If this is truly self-calibrating then something is amiss in my opinion." The SeeLevel tank black/gray/fresh water sensors can't recalibrate themselves, and they can't be calibrated manually. (The propane gauge can, but that only needs to be done once.) They're only "self-calibrating" in the sense that once the strip applied to the tank, no further adjustment is needed. The SeeLevel sensor strips can only sense fluid levels for the height of the strip. If the tank were a perfect rectangular solid, the rig were perfectly level, and the strip were exactly the same height as the tank, then you'd get a perfectly accurate 0 to 100% reading. But these tanks are not rectangular--the bottoms slope to allow fluids to drain completely. (A bathtub is built the same way, for the same reason.) And the sensor strips are rarely exactly the same height as the tanks, because they can only be trimmed in increments of an inch or so. There's also the fact that physical constraints (walls, chassis frame, brake lines, etc.) often make it impossible to mount a strip at the lower end of a tank. And finally, your rig may not always be perfectly level. All of these limitations apply equally to any tank sensor system, whether capacitive like the SeeLevel system, conductive like the factory-installed system, or even ultrasonic. (I don't know anybody who makes an ultrasonic level-sensing system for RVs, but they do exist in industry.) As others have said, what's important is being able to tell when your fresh water tank is approaching empty and when your black and gray tanks are approaching full. When properly installed--and you can be sure that Mike did as good a job as was possible on your particular rig--the SeeLevel sensors do a better job of that than any system I know of. But as Ken said, they're not perfectly accurate. No level sensor system can be, given the oddly-shaped tanks and other constraints I mentioned. My own SeeLevel gauge reads 6% when my rig's freshwater tank is empty. That was as close as I could get it, and that's good enough for me... far better than the factory-installed gauges. I know we SeeLevel owners can be pretty enthusiastic, because these gauges are indeed so much better than anything else on the market. I'm sorry if we've mislead you into thinking they're perfect. But if you temper your expectations a bit, you'll find that they're a big improvement on what you had before. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #6 – November 29, 2012, 11:20:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 135451"My concern for the fresh water tank is when it is getting low. The other two tanks are the reverse - my concern is when they are getting near full."I have installed a few SeeLevel kits. The sensor strips are 12" long, with 1" sections that can be cut off to fit the sensor to the tank's height. Unfortunately, most tanks do not get a perfect fit and will not provide a perfect 0-100% range. I try to set them so the water tank reads 0% when down to the last gallon or two. The holding tanks are set to read 100% when filled. These are the only measurements most care about. Our water tank reads 92% when filled and 0% empty. Installing the strips with masking tape to temporally secure them, until the accuracy of the strip's location can be determined, is the best approach. There is a chance the strip has come loose or was not installed at the right height. It can be extremely difficult to access a flat side of the tank, on many floor plans. Without seeing yours, its impossible to determine the actual problem.Larry
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #7 – November 29, 2012, 11:31:14 am Yahoo Message Number: 135453QuoteWhen I last filled the water tank, seeing that it hit 100%, I was >returning to the other side of my rig to turn off the water, when I >was side-tracked by another. When I remember I still hadn't turned >off the water, ran back and nothing was pouring out of my fresh >water tank. That peaked my curiosity and I let it continue filling >until it did. Since I had no real idea how much extra was added. I >was curious if I needed to re-program it and I asked. To further add to this mystery.. I am on day 6 of boon docking, and >water still reads 100%. The first 3 days, I was not conserving. So >can someone tell me what is a realistic *low* number I should be >concerned with? If this is truly self-calibrating then something is amiss in my >opinion. As it did not re-calibrate on its own. And would re->programing the read-out - would it help? Or make no difference? Melinda 2011 27' MB Hi Melinda, I have a midbath unit and installed the SeeLevel system myself; hopefully I can clear up some of your SeeLevel issues. First off, you cannot recalibrate your system's readouts other than the propane level display. When your installer was mounting the external sensors, there was a choice to be made about where to mount the sensor strip on each of the holding tanks. Let me try to explain. Each of the tanks has a different shape. For example, your gray water tank is shallower than the supplied sensor strip so the installer had to cut the sensor strip most closely match the height of your tank. When I installed mine, I mounted the sensor strip a bit above the bottom of the tank. This means that when I first add waste water to the gray water tank, the monitor still shows 0%. I did this because my main concern is how close to full my gray tank is. Likewise with the black water holding tank. I had to cut the sensor strip to most closely match the height of the side of the holding tank. Again, I was most concerned about how close to full I was. With our fresh water tank, the height of the tank is greater than the length of the sensor stip that SeeLevel supplies. At installation time, there is a choice to be made; do you add a second sensor strip above the first? Or do just mount a single sensor strip closer to the top or bottom of the holding tank. I chose to mount my strip closer to the ***bottom*** of the tank because I want to know how close to empty I am. I think your installer did the same thing. I don't usally fill my fresh water tank all the way. But if I did, I know that even though the monitor might read 100%, there is still room for a few more gallons. One other issue that can explain your reading of 100% when the tank was not full is that your rig may not have been level when you were filling the tank. On my rig, the fresh water tank sensor strip is mounted towards the front end of my rig, not far from the fridge. What this means is that if I'm filling the fresh water tank and the front end of my rig is low, it will register much fuller than it really is. As for why your monitor says 100% after several days of use, it could be a situation that combines where he mounted the sesor strip and how level or unlevel you are parked. Don't get discouraged; I think Seelevel has made our travels easier.Steve K.
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #8 – November 29, 2012, 01:14:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135460Andy and everyone else, including Mike, I don't think I need to temper my expectation on one expensive piece of equipment. I was and still am delighted with the SeeLevel, despite what some might think! Your right Andy, its far better than what came with the rig. That in and of itself was worth it. But it has just been so frustrating trying to get answers. I have never expected readings to be exact either, more accurate perhaps, but not exact. My expectations - to make sense of how to read the read-out after my discovery on the water tank holding far more water. I don't think was unrealistic, but will accept the findings as is and besides, I now know I have a surplus over what the reading says. My expectation - to get a straight answer yes or no - on whether I could re-program the readout and my question was finally answered today and its NO, I can not re-do anything. Fine. That's all I wanted to know. The subject is now closed. Thanks for those who FINALLY answered my question, it is greatly appreciated and and learning even more about the SeeLevel from different views was good too. And especially for those who confirmed what I thought I already understood about it as well. Thank you.Melinda But if you temper your expectations a bit, you'll find that they're a big improvement on what you had before. :-)
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #9 – November 29, 2012, 02:20:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135461Melinda If the water tank is more than 12" tall, it needs an extra sensor strip added, something that does not come in the standard SeeLevel 709 kit. Mike, not having an extra strip, would most likely install the strip so that it reads the bottom of the tank, the part that most of us really care about. An extra strip can be retroactively added, if desired, to provide a full range. I suggest that contact you Mike for assistance.Larry
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #10 – November 29, 2012, 05:17:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135466Quote "But it has just been so frustrating trying to get answers."Melinda Melinda If you do not have a copy of the Owners Manual which should have been given you by Mike at the time of installation here's where you can find your answers. http://www.rvgauge.com/products/model_709.shtmlThis url should take you to Garnet Instruments web-site where you can download a PDF copy of different publications concerning the Model 709.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #11 – November 29, 2012, 06:01:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135468Steve, if you read the last sentence of the first paragraph you will see I had a manual and I had read it. Thanks for writing in.Melinda
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #12 – November 29, 2012, 06:11:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135469Larry, I didn't measure the height of the water tank, but I do know its odd shaped. With all the extra water that I could put
Re: SeeLevel II Reply #13 – December 04, 2012, 02:19:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135533Quote from: wovenfiber" Do others have issue with there SeeLevel's? Or am I the only one thinking I wasted BIG money on this? Regarding the "BIG money," SeeLevel is having a sale on the model 707 (Fresh/Gray/Black/LPG) monitor and senders: Alleged regular price $299, sale price $184.25Here's the link: https://www.securewebexchange.com/rvgauge.com/sale.htmI'm just catching up on old emails, so if someone's already pointed this out, sorry. -- Jon ('06TK "Albatross")
See Level Reply #14 – November 29, 2012, 04:23:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135464Hi Melinda and group; Melinda seems to be perplexed with the water tank readings. In my RK the tank is under my sofa bed and I can see the water level when I pull out the sofa. Is that true with the other models? If so, it is very easy to monitor the SeeLevel readings with the actual quantity of water. Just expose your water tank and make markings if you wish of the levels that agree with the See Level readings.Mike
Re: See Level Reply #15 – November 29, 2012, 05:58:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 135467Mike, I am no more perplexed than the last person who made a discover on how something works and they inquire if it is normal or if they need to correct something. My water tank is under my oven
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