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Topic: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area (Read 12 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135193
I know this isn't what you want to hear, Bob, but I think the suspension experts here will confirm that air bags can't increase your chassis' CCC. Reducing your cargo is the only way to relieve overloading.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135195
" I know this isn't what you want to hear, Bob, but I think the suspension experts here will confirm that air bags can't increase your chassis' CCC. Reducing your cargo is the only way to relieve overloading.

Quote
Andy Baird"
Yes Andy you are right. I am removing my Kwikee Levelors which should chop 200 lb.s from my load getting me close to rated CCC. But I want the airbags to stabilze the rear end. Even at rated CCC it will be spongy. The Bilstein shocks I had installed have helped this. But I do alot of offroading so I need the air bags. Soon I will have a TOAD (97 Jeep Cherokee) so I will offload weight from LD to TOAD.

Thanks, Bob 01 23.5 TK
Re: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135198
Bob,
 I started out with a few brief comments for you, but ended up with a book.
 What Andy says is true; the air bags will not increase your CCC.  The vehicle GWVR, and thus its CCC, are fixed by the axles and other suspension parts and there is nothing that you can do about it short of replacing major suspension components.  I know one person that did this on a Ford E-350 van and in the process converted it to 4WD.  He also had to make major changes in the brake system as this system is designed for a  specific GWVR.  (IMHO Ford cuts the design pretty close.)
 If your problem is "body roll" in the rear end, I would advise looking into heavier sway bars; both front and rear.  They make a significant difference in "body roll."  The other issue with rear stability is that the body tends to shift left and right and "bends" the rear springs outwards; i.e. the body and frame do not stay perfectly aligned above the rear axle.  There is a solution to this problem called a "track bar."  It locks the frame/body with respect to the rear axle in the horizontal plane so that the springs do not tip outwards.  It does not impact the vertical movement of the frame/body with respect to the axle and springs.  I have done both on my 2005 MB  and also junked the Bilstien shocks,
 Prior to the LD I had a 1998 GMC 1-ton, 4WD, extended cab pickup with dual rear wheels.  It carried a 10 ft self contained camper.  The "road weight" was as much as 11,000 lbs. or about 1000 lbs over the GWVR.  However, even with the overload, the rear springs never compressed enough to use the bottom "helper" leafs.  My previous truck for the camper had been a 1991 GMC 3/4 ton and I had a set of Firestone airbags on it.  Their primary function was to level up the camper based on how the load was distributed.  I moved the airbags to the 1998 truck, but only used them once in a while for the same purpose.  The airbags flex left and right, just like the springs, and they will not correct body roll.  If you do decide to install airbags, my advice would be to go the "entire route."  Have an onboard compressor and air gauges installed too.  It makes it a lot easier to maintain the correct pressure in the bags.  Despite what Firestone may say, the bags do leak some, just like tires.  Also you should adjust the pressure based on temperature and altitude.
 I noticed that you are planning to tow a Jeep Cherokee.  I assume that this is the "real" Cherokee and not a Grand Cherokee.  I have towed a 2000 Cherokee behind my LD and also the truck/camper for over 125K miles.  The typical Cherokee weighs between 3300 pounds and 4000 pounds depending on the model, accessories, and added items.  Mine weighs about 3700 pounds as it has a full set of heavy skid plates, hitch receiver, etc.  The tow limit on my 2005 MB is 4000 pounds which is dictated by the design of the Lazy Daze hitch receiver.  I don't know your rig, but I suspect that the tow limit is not greater as LD has been building the same thing for so many years.  Give it some thou;ght.  Once you start towing the Jeep, the "rear end roll" will increase as the hitch receiver is part of the chassis/body.
 While I am preaching, please let me mention one other item: tow brakes for the toad.  You must have a toad tow brake of some kind.  If I were  you, I would install something like the SMI or U.S. Gear tow brake in the Jeep.
IMHO the "brake in a box" units are of not viable.   Despite their talk of "proportional braking" they are activated only when the toad senses a "deceleration" and have no knowledge of the braking activity in the motorhome.  Going down hill you can only activate the toad tow brakes by hard braking of the motorhome.  As I have learned, not a good situation.
 I started towing my Jeep behind by truck/camper using a Brake Buddy.  It worked OK as the GMC had a lot more braking capability than my LD and it could "hold the Jeep back" on down hill runs without excessive brake wear on the truck.  (I also had a button in the cab that would manually activate the Brake Buddy.  This was frowned on by a number of "safety experts").  I continued to use the Brake Buddy after I got the LD and soon noticed that I was "smoking the LD brakes" a bit on long downhill runs even with "shifting down."  At about 25K miles on the LD my son "melted down" the brakes on a
6-mile long 8% down grade.  (My LD brakes have a lot of plastic and
 fiberglass parts.).  At that point I installed a U.S. Gear unit.  It works on downhill runs as it is driven by the braking action of the motor home.
(I am in no way promoting them as there are other braking units that will do the same thing.)  Even with a good tow brake in the Jeep, I have had to overhaul my LD brakes about every 35K miles.  However, I always tow the Jeep.
 As far as Firestone air bag installers, initially I had my bags installed on my 1991 GMC at Offroad Warehouse.  They installed the bags and air lines and I installed the compressor and gauges myself.
 In regard to towing the Cherokee, there are several others in this forum who tow the same vehicle.  In my opinion the "Cherokee guru" in these parts is Larry Wade.
 Sorry that this is so long.   I just want to pass on what I have learned in the hopes that it will help someone else leave less blood and money on the road than I did.

Doug

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135199
Doug, I would like to thank you for your detailed info and advise.
 My primary reason for wanting the air bags is to raise the rear end of the chassis to prevent "grounding out" going over steep driveways or during my off road excursions.
Body roll is something that needs to be addressed but a Helwig swaybar is in my future.
 I am currently over the GVWR by approx. 200 pounds. Through the elimination of the Kwikee Levelor system I hope to make that up. Plus I can shift some weight to the Toad if needed.
 It is a true Cherokee of 97 vintage. The Country model. And I am having a US Gear unified braking system installed on it by a very knowledgable member of this forum.
He has performed extensive repairs to my Jeep and knows it in and out. I think you can guess his name.
 Really appreciate all the advise and caring from this group. You guys/gals are great!

Bob Moore 01 23.5 TK
 
Re: Air Bag Installer In Los Angeles Area
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 135202
"Doug Baker"  wrote: the air bags will not increase your CCC.  The vehicle GWVR, and thus its CCC, are fixed by the axles and other suspension parts and there is nothing that you can do about it short of replacing major suspension components.
--- The gvwr of the Ford E350 158" wheelbase cutaway chassis used as the platform for the 23.5' before the 2003 model year was/is 11500 pounds; in 2003 (and after), LD began building the 23.5' on the E450 chassis (the wheelbase remained unchanged) with a gvwr of 14050 pounds. The significant increase in gvwr was the primary reason that I (and others) waited for the 23.5' LD on the heavier chassis.

LD "changes through the years" are available at this link:
 http://www.andybaird.com/travels/LD-guide-web/changes.htm

An additional comment: Currently, LD offers the 24' with the standard 5.4L V-8 (gvwr 14050 pounds) or a 6.8L V-10 (gvwr 14500 pounds) engine option; IMO, the V-10 and the slight increase in gvwr are well worth the extra cost.  As ever, YMMV!

Joan
2003 TK has a new home