I'm stunned February 16, 2010, 05:57:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110159Had the RV guy here to fix the converter-[he agrees-it is defective], and check out what it was going to take to fix the roof leak that happened in the past two months here in Ca., as well as apply the eternabond, and re-seal all other areas as a prelude to my going fulltime next week. I am in total shock....he says there is evidence of electrolysis/ pin holes over the whole cap area, some a little back of it. They are very small...ball point pin sized. {Kate, remember when we smelled that slight musty smell over the driver's side compartment??]...yup --somewhere up there was a devious opening...it has never smelled musty again, not even now after the bad leak and all the rain.... :-(...supposedly, this has been going on up there for awhile. He said it had probably started even before I bought it...and that it would have been very hard to spot just doing a walk-over on the roof -[which I did]...did the push tests, probed, prodded, and looked for stains, etc., but evidently i didn't look close enough. The people i bought it from had just had the roof re-sealed, and I had figured two-three years before I needed to get it re-done. I wanted to re-do it with eternabond this time.This is the FIRST time I've had any leakage inside, but evidently moisture has been getting in somewhere up there. It's been my focus since Oct. to get the RV setup to live in. Getting the roof taken care of was my TOP priority, besides the solar and battery update....but the weather hasn't co-operated until now.Now this...sigh....My mobile repair guy says costs up to $15,000 would not be an unreasonable expectation, considering all the roof fixtures have to be removed, all the caps/end pieces taken off, the whole metal roof removed and then seeing how much of the sub-roof wood needs to be replaced. He didn't think it had damaged under the sub roof, as the inside is clean and dry --and he checked everywhere.Talked to Vince, and he says it's a really tuff job--will take at least three weeks and he can't even say that'll be the time frame until they get the whole roof off. He wants me to come down so he can take a hands-on look at it. He's swamped right now and the earliest he can make room for me is the first week in April anyway.Vince said this is one job that the Lazy Daze construction actually becomes a problem. It's a really major endeavor. I've called progressive [I have fulltime ins. coverage] and can only pray they will cover some of what this is going to run. My major concern of course is where the heck do Junah and I LIVE while the coach is being repaired...three weeks plus is a LONG time to be without my home!!Say a little pray for us...looks like we're going to need it! Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "Kooch" our little red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: I'm stunned Reply #1 – February 16, 2010, 07:32:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110164Gini, Sorry to hear about your coach, that's a tuff one. Did the RV tech say what may have caused the electrolysis? I have been reading this forum for quite a few years and don't remember seeing this problem come up before.Where are you taking the coach for repair?Robert BrittonHollister, California
Re: I'm stunned Reply #2 – February 16, 2010, 09:45:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110167Gini: What an awful predicament. I'd be far more than stunned. I'd be out there with a 12-gauge and a lawyer. Although I've been leaning heavily towards an LD, since SWMBO won't consider anything longer than 27', I've always been a bit cautious about wood rot problems. My last rig had a welded 3-hoop steel frame made of 3 x 1.5 rectangular tube and all the body panels and roof were fiberglas. Unfortunately, the inner walls were Lauan mahogany veneer over Styrofoam and had gotten wet in a couple of places. I'll be interested to see how things work out for you. My sympathies on your predicament.
Re: I'm stunned Reply #3 – February 17, 2010, 07:25:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 110174I think I'd be talking to the factory, especially if you are the original owner.-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: I'm stunned Reply #4 – February 17, 2010, 08:37:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 110175"Frank" wrote: I'd be far more than stunned. I'd be out there with a 12-gauge and a lawyer. --- So, you'd shoot the lawyer if s/he didn't fix the roof? ;-) I certainly agree that the problem with Gini's roof is a *very* frustrating, difficult, and potentially expensive one to deal with, but, from her post, it appears that she is trying to work out all the "logistics" of having the roof repaired at the factory, and is not expending her time and energy looking for someone to "hold responsible" for the problem. I don't remember the year of Gini's motorhome, but it did have a previous owner (or owners?), and none of the rest of us has any way of knowing the maintenance history of the rig or of any "pre-existing conditions" before she bought it. It seems to me from reading her post that Gini is doing what can be done to resolve the problem as expediently as possible so that she can get on with her planned fulltiming life. JMHO; YMMV.Joan
Re: I'm stunned Reply #5 – February 17, 2010, 08:50:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 110176Hello Gini: While a new roof is clearly the ideal solution to your roof problem, I suspect most of us have, at times, found ourselves in the situation where the ideal solution simply wasn't in the budget.You do have options. Sta-Kool makes an excellent line of roof coating products that are widely used in the RV & mobile home business. Locally, Home Depot carries the line. Take a look. This may very well be the answer to your roof problems until you win the lottery. Enjoy your full-time adventure.Take care.EdThis too shall pass.http://www.gardner-gibson.com/linedetails.aspx?id=87
Re: I'm stunned Reply #6 – February 17, 2010, 09:26:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 110177Another option I would check into is fiberglassing the entire roof. If done properly it will add some but not a whole lot of weight. Many will advise against this but it seems better than spending 15000 to get what you already have again.. In Mexico I suspect you could find someone to do this well for 5k or less.Actually it isn't all that hard to do your self...Garry
Re: I'm stunned Reply #7 – February 17, 2010, 10:28:44 am Yahoo Message Number: 110179From: etdcaw Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:29 AM To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Subject: [LD] Re: I'm stunnedHello Gini: While a new roof is clearly the ideal solution to your roof problem, I suspect most of us have, at times, found ourselves in the situation where the ideal solution simply wasn't in the budget.You do have options. Sta-Kool makes an excellent line of roof coating products that are widely used in the RV & mobile home business. Locally, Home Depot carries the line. Take a look. This may very well be the answer to your roof problems until you win the lottery. Enjoy your full-time adventure.Take care. Ed This too shall pass.I concur with Ed. Absent obvious signs or structural problems (wood rot etc), applying a roof coating like Sta-Kool would be an economical way to "stop" the problem. bumper[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: I'm stunned Reply #8 – February 17, 2010, 10:41:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 110181Gini, I'm very sorry to hear about your discovery. It's clear that the *ideal* solution would be a new roof--and I'm sure that's what the factory will tell you to do--but that's a huge outlay of cash. I agree with those who say that before deciding, you should carefully investigate less expensive alternatives, such as coating with a liquid sealant or covering with EPDM ("rubber roof") material.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: I'm stunned Reply #9 – February 17, 2010, 01:35:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110189What year is your rig?I had a similar problem (with larger holes)
Re: I'm stunned Reply #10 – February 17, 2010, 03:17:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110196New person - but I have to ask - if she does another type of cover/repair to her roof, will it increase her costs down the road if she has to replace it? Just a thought.Kim www.kimsblastoff.com"We rise by lifting others" (Robert Green Ingersol)
Re: I'm stunned Reply #11 – February 17, 2010, 05:56:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110201On Feb 17, 2010, at 12:21 PM, toothvet wrote:QuoteWhat year is your rig? I had a similar problem (with larger holes) in my '08 (built in '07) on the rear panels last year.Steve Holmstrom I have never heard of such a defect on a new rig. Please describe it more fully. What was the remedy?[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: I'm stunned Reply #12 – February 17, 2010, 06:44:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110203.....Absent obvious signs or structural problems (wood rot etc), applying a roof coating like Sta-Kool would be an economical way to "stop" the problem.Quotebumper There are products out there used in restoring wood which make it hard again - injection process of hardener seems would be an idea to look into - Might check the web site for "This Old House" http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/ - also check with furniture restorers they would know about these type products/proceeduresHave used the Sta-Kool and it really does stop leaks - Good luck and keep us informed - You'll make the best of this for sureVirginia, Jim and Cricket Starr & Midnight Roadie
Re: I'm stunned Reply #13 – February 17, 2010, 08:11:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110204Gini, What an incredible drag, you have my sympathies (and yes, I remember the musty smell).I have a few questions. Have you gone up and looked at the electrolysis yourself? Are there actual holes eaten through the metal or is it the bumpy scarring we see on older aluminum rigs? If there are no actual holes in the metal itself, am I not correct that the leakage problem is coming from dampness on the inside of the skin, not from water actually seeping through the skin? If so, it seems to me that the problems that need to be addressed are how to stop the water from getting in (and this would be at the vents/seams, etc., not necessarily from the large metal sheeting on the roof. Of course the wood structure needs to be check thoroughly, but it may be that your problem is with the leaking vents/seams, etc and the wooden infrastructure, but not the entire metal roof itself. Or I could just be babbling on, not having a clue of what I'm talking about (which happens more than I'd like to admit)Anyway, keep us all up to date on how this goes.Kate http://cholulared.blogspot.com http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096
Re: I'm stunned Reply #14 – February 17, 2010, 08:25:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110205"he says there is evidence of electrolysis/ pin holes over the whole cap area, some a little back of it."Gini Where exactly are you seeing the pinholes? In the front cap or in the sidewalls or roof sheet metal? The front cap is plastic so I'm not sure how electrolysis could occur. The sheet metal side of top could corrode. Are you sure it is electrolysis and not defects in the paint? Have you probed any of the pinholes to see if they are rotted? Have you used an ice pick to probe the entire ceiling, looking for soft spots? If the damage area is relatively small, the cap can disassemble from the inside and rebuilt. It's a nasty job but would be a lot cheaper than removing the entire roof the access the area. I may have missed this but how old is your LD?LarryLarry
Re: I'm stunned - [we had the same problem] Reply #15 – February 17, 2010, 10:59:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110208Gina Said: "I am in total shock....he says there is evidence of electrolysis/ pin holes over the whole cap area, some a little back of it."We had the same problem with our '93 30' IB this past year (2009). I was up on the roof washing and noticed 3-4 areas where there were tiny pin-pricks where bubbles were coming from. The holes were so small I wouldn't have seen them otherwise. It was up over the cab area as well, more over the drivers area than anywhere else. We bought our rig from the original owners, the Nestors who lived on the California coast when we met them so sea air may have had something to do with it . but that is merely a wild guess. Maybe there are iron nails in the frame that come in contact with the aluminum somewhere? I have no idea. It's just a thought. After considering all of our options, many of which have been mentioned here already, we had the original roof sealed with a rubber coating after we made sure there was no residual moisture in the roof. In our minds a rubber sealant takes care of the problem and gives us an extra layer of protection without having everything ripped to pieces. Maintaining the rubber roof isn't much of a problem in our eyes because I'm usually up there a few times a year anyway poking around, cleaning, or checking on things. We've had no regrets going that route and a trip to the scales afterwards showed a net increase of about 43lbs give or take a few pounds.Good luck with whatever you decide.Hugh and Yuli SE Texas[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: I'm stunned Reply #16 – February 18, 2010, 12:38:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 110211Second attempt to correct a misstatement I made - I don't know why the first time did not send.I meant to say '98 (built
Re: I'm stunned - [we had the same problem] Reply #17 – February 18, 2010, 07:21:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 110215QuoteAfter considering all of our options, many of which have been mentioned here already, we had the original roof sealed with a rubber coating Just curious. Is this the product you used? http://www.epdmcoatings.com/Ed
Re: I'm stunned Reply #18 – February 18, 2010, 02:10:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110231QuoteHave you gone up and looked at the electrolysis yourself? Are there actual holes eaten through the metal or is it the bumpy scarring we see on older aluminum rigs? If there are no actual holes in the metal itself, am I not correct that the leakage problem is coming from dampness on the inside of the skin, not from water actually seeping through the skin? If so, it seems to me that the problems that need to be addressed are how to stop the water from getting in (and this would be at the vents/seams, etc., not necessarily from the large metal sheeting on the roof. I second this idea. My (limited) understanding of what appears to be 2 phenomena (electrolysis and galvanic response of the metals) both include moisture. I seems water penetrated the roof 1st, then whichever is occurring is happening afterward. If it were me, I would find the source of the original leak and figure out how to stop it. Then, if you are seeing pinholes, I would think galvanic response, which I think of as a battery (hopefully there is a chemist here that will correct me if I'm wrong; I think it is also called an oxidation-reduction reaction. I didn't fully understand those in high school, so I could be _really_ wrong!). If, and it's a big IF, I understand what the RV Dr. was saying about electrolysis, it sounds similar to delamination that occurs in a fiberglass bodied RV; the fiberglass separates from the underlying structure. The pinholes sound like the "corrosion" from galvanic response. (If it were iron, we would call it rust.)QuoteOf course the wood structure needs to be check thoroughly, but it may be that your problem is with the leaking vents/seams, etc and the wooden infrastructure, but not the entire metal roof itself. Getting the wood dry is of primary importance. Dry rot, which is a fungus, will continue to destroy the wood until all moisture is removed. Obviously, removing moisture will also stop any galvanic response/electrolysis. If you are considering another roof covering (like the Sta Kool) and are wondering about "something continuing to go on under the roof", I would think that, after the wood is dry, it would be no different than any other rubber roof. The moisture is the basis of the problem, and, once removed, the problem should be also. I wonder if removing _part_ of the roof (if the affected area is relatively small, ie say less than 10 sq ft?), allowing the wood to dry or replacing the wood, and replacing only the removed metal would be an option? If the eternabond is as good as advertised, why wouldn't this work? Needless to say, the original leak should also be fixed.Just an idea. Ken
Re: I'm stunned Reply #19 – February 18, 2010, 02:36:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110232wrote:My (limited) understanding of what appears to be 2 phenomena (electrolysis and galvanic response of the metals) both include moisture. I seems water penetrated the roof 1st, then whichever is occurring is happening afterward. If it were me, I would find the source of the original leak and figure out how to stop it. --- Yes. *Moisture* is the electrolyte (catalyst) that starts the process of "galvanic corrosion".Joan
Re: I'm stunned Reply #20 – February 18, 2010, 03:27:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110237Gini,A very unfortunate situation. I'd do a bit of research on wood rot. Google RV wood rot or similar and you'll find some info. Others here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if you can eliminate the moisture intrusion and "dry out" your coach the "rotting" process, if underway, will cease. It requires moisture to proceed. If the damage isn't too serious (it sounds like you were able to walk on the roof when inspecting it prior to purchase) that might not be so bad. Then, as someone else has suggested, you might be able to seal the roof
Re: I'm stunned Reply #21 – February 18, 2010, 04:00:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110241Apologies, my error!!! I meant to say '98 - 97!!! Big difference.Steve
Re: I'm stunned Reply #22 – February 18, 2010, 04:27:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110243No matter how the moisture got in or where it got in, we should all take a lesson from this misfortune. If there is no water it could not happen. That's simple to figure out. So how many of us that don't live in the desert will store our rigs so that rain and accumulated dew will drain off the roof - out of Lake Newton.I will be curious to know if the 2010 rigs retain the concave roof.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: I'm stunned Reply #23 – February 18, 2010, 05:14:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110248I'll second that. Before we bought the LD we had a 1978 Midas. It developed a roof leak that was diagnosed as electrolysis. We painted the roof with something like Sta-Kool, and it solved the problem. It is not the ideal solution, but certainly cheaper than replacing the roof.--Al in Bremerton (currently in Yuma getting levelers installed) --2002 26.5 MB
I'm stunned Reply #24 – February 18, 2010, 05:58:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 110253Wow Gini, so sorry to hear of your problem. We are new to this forum but we sure can understand what a mess this is for you. Dry rot, to boot, is just horrible. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do and please let us know how you decide to resolve it. Following the same issue, we are about to order a new Lazy Daze. How does one avoid such an awful problem. How can you "care for your roof" (whatever that means) under say solar panels? Besides normal cleaning and careful watching for leaks, eternabond applications as appropriate, what else are Lazy Daze owners doing to protect the roof? We see that the wood frame is guaranteed for the life of the rv for the original owner, but that does not apply to a damaged roof as far as we can tell from the paperwork from Lazy Daze. Again Gini, best of luck. Be well, Ann and Jerry
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