new lazy daze solar question February 08, 2010, 07:32:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109865We will be ordering a new 27' Lazy Daze next month and are very excited (first time Lazy Daze owner). We're dedicated boondockers. We're fairly comfortable with our option choices but we need and are asking for your help/opinion on the following: 1. The 27' has a solar option, to get the factory wiring should we spend $1300 for a single 100 watt panel and the factory controller? Wouldn't we also need an inverter to run any a/c appliances? We know we would need more panels than provided and we don't like to use the generator. Would want all our power needs met by solar when ever possible. 2. Should we buy an optional second 100 watt panel with factory instillation for an additional $850, or should we wait for further solar/batteries/etc. to be done by a solar professional. (not so handy that we would try to do instillation ourselves.) 3. We do watch some TV. Should we get the manual sat. antenna installed for $500? They indicate you need a solar panel for this. Why is a solar panel required for a manual antenna?Since our tech knowledge is not up to date (our last rv travel was early in 2002) we appreciate any light you can shine into this dark corner of renewed newbieness. Thank you, Ann and Jerry
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #1 – February 08, 2010, 07:57:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109870Ann and Jerry, Where did you get the idea that LD's manual sat. antenna option requires the solar panel option? It doesn't make sense to me.Alex Rutchka, SE #4 '05 MB
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #2 – February 08, 2010, 08:05:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109871Well, whether or not it makes sense, that is exactly what it says on the order blank. David
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #3 – February 08, 2010, 08:10:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109872Ann & Jerry, Elizabeth & I have been boondockers for years as we really enjoy those out of the way beautiful places in remote primitive campgrounds such as the National Forest. We ordered our new LD rear bath equipped with options with this in mind. We hope to take delivery this March. We added the two solar panels, auto finding, sat. receiver, two sofas for the additional storage space, and I will be researching for a way to add two additional coach batteries. On the Ford diesel chassis they place the two engine batteries in a tray under the floor below the passenger seat. I might be able to get the tray for the extra coach batteries. Don't know yet. LD doesn't do inverters, but they can be added later. Others here have done this. The smaller TV that is standard I believe is 12V, unless you get the cab over entertainment center with the larger AC powered TV. The most power hungry AC appliance is the microwave. Check the watt rating of it and plan an inverter addition with that in mind along with the other usages. We like sleeping in the cab-over loft, so we are getting the smaller TV. Lighting draws a lot of battery power, but now there LED bulb replacements for that that work at a fraction of incandescent bulbs. That will also be an aftermarket item. Mike Coachman
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #4 – February 08, 2010, 08:12:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109873Well, Alex, perhaps we misunderstood (very possible) what is being offered but on the optional price list sheet this what it says; MANUAL SATELLITE ANTENNA (REQUIRES SOLAR PANEL) $500.00 Thanks, A&J
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #5 – February 08, 2010, 09:31:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109876"The 27' has a solar option, to get the factory wiring should we spend $1300 for a single 100 watt panel and the factory controller?" If all you want is solar power, you can probably have it installed for less--check with AM Solar (http://www.amsolar.com/>) or an AM Solar certified installer such as Mike Sylvester (http://www.thervguynm.com/>. (Lazy Daze uses panels and controllers from AM Solar, who are generally regarded as the best solar power supplier for RVs.) If you're getting the satellite TV option, LD will require you to buy at least one solar panel from them. I guess they figure you'll be using more power watching TV, instead of watching the sunsets. ;-)"Wouldn't we also need an inverter to run any a/c appliances?" The satellite TV option includes a 400W inverter to power the satellite receiver and other low-power entertainment devices. It powers one set of outlets near the TV set, so if you want 120VAC power elsewhere, you'll need to add another inverter. (Tip: in any case, get the factory to install as many extra 120V and 12V outlets as they will allow. There's no such thing as too many!) For an inverter plugged into a 12V outlet, maximum output is about 120 watts *regardless of the inverter's rating* (e.g. 400W). This is a limitation imposed by the outlet and its associated wiring and fuse. If you need more wattage than that, you'll need to have the inverter "hardwired" into the 12V electrical system. Even with a hardwired inverter, unless you're willing to pay for elaborate and expensive electrical upgrades you should probably forget about running cooking or heating appliances (microwave oven, electric frying pan, coffee maker, hair dryer, etc.) from an inverter, because these devices draw so much power that they'll rapidly drain your batteries. Yes, it's possible to install a 2,000W "whole-house" inverter that powers all your outlets including your microwave oven, and five panels and five batteries to provide the juice for these power-hungry appliances, but it's probably going to cost you ten to fifteen thousand dollars by the time you get through. (I know, because I've done it to my coach.) You have to want a beefed-up power system pretty badly to spend that kind of money on it. "We don't like to use the generator. Would want all our power needs met by solar when ever possible." Then you'll want at least two panels, and you may want more. Of course this depends largely on your power usage and on where you plan to do most of your traveling. In the southwest you'll get lots of sunshine; in the Pacific northwest not so much. If you plan to spend a lot of time in coastal Oregon, for example, you'll want all the panels you can fit. Most 27' Lazy Dazes can accommodate four panels, but the way the factory installs the original two is not conducive to adding more. Therefore if you feel you may need more than two, or if you just want to keep your options open, it's better to order the rig without any panels, and have the installation done afterward by AM Solar or one of their installers. You may also want extra batteries. Panels only generate electricity when the sun is shining, so if you're night owls, you may find that your batteries can't store enough power to get you through the evening, no matter how many panels you have charging them during the day. A good rule of thumb is one amp-hour of battery capacity for each watt of panel capacity; in round numbers that works out to one battery per panel. Hence, if you end up with four panels, you'd probably want four batteries. Again, AM Solar can do this work for you. "We do watch some TV. Should we get the manual sat. antenna installed for $500?" Depends on whether you feel you must have satellite TV. Every Lazy Daze comes with a rotatable broadcast TV antenna on the roof, so you will be able to get local stations (including digital stations) in many areas. But you won't have the choice of channels that a satellite system gives you. It's up to you to decide on your priorities. For example, my used rig came with both a TV antenna and a satellite TV dish, but I threw them both away to make room for five solar panels. Obviously, my priorities are at one end of the spectrum; yours may be on the other. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #6 – February 08, 2010, 10:41:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109880In our 1997 RB we have two 8D Lifeline AGMs under the forward dinette seat, which is next to the (now empty) LD battery compartment. Two 8Ds would add 510 amp-hrs to the amp-hrs in the LD stock batteries in your case.. In our case we do not have a generator. So assuming you do have a generator you'd have to look into the weight issue of adding batteries on the same side as the generator.We also have a 1300 watt Inverter that powers all 120v outlets, and does run the microwave.We also have 4 solar panels.best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #7 – February 08, 2010, 10:56:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109881Thank you Mike Coachman and Andy for the ideas and suggestions. This is exactly the kind of info. we needed. We look forward to seeing all of you on the road sometime this summer. Mike, best of luck with your new Lazy Daze. Andy, we have been following your great "Travels with Andy" website since it hit the internet. Your enthusium for the lifestyle and the Lazy Daze class C rv got us to even look at a Class C. We had dismissed the class C out of hand last time we looked for a unit as the ones we saw were poorly made and considered generally unsafe. Of course, we had never looked at a Lazy Daze. They are fairly hard to find even when you are looking for one. As we discuss this purchase, a big investment for us, we really appreciate this yahoo website and all the smart people that answer everyones questions is a timely, helpful manner. It looks like everyone here brings something to the table. We offer... our thanks! Ann and Jerry
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #8 – February 09, 2010, 08:38:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 109884Quote1. The 27' has a solar option, to get the factory wiring should we spend $1300 for a single 100 watt panel and the factory controller? Wouldn't we also need an inverter to run any a/c appliances? We know we would need more panels than provided and we don't like to use the generator. Would want all our power needs met by solar when ever possible. Since you know you will need more panels than the two Lazy Daze offers, if it were me -- and knowing what I know now about how and where Lazy Daze installs the solar panels -- I would forego the factory option and head to Springfield, OR and have AM Solar install whatever solar panels I wanted.Quote3. We do watch some TV. Should we get the manual sat. antenna installed for $500? They indicate you need a solar panel for this. Why is a solar panel required for a manual antenna? Are you going to be fulltimers? If not, do you already have satellite TV service in your home? If you don't already have satellite TV service in your home, do you watch enough TV to make a monthly payment for satellite TV service worthwhile just for those times you're traveling in the rig? Do you want HD service, or would SD service be sufficient? The roof-mounted satellite dish -- whether manual or automatic -- can be added after purchase. Keep in mind that if you have Lazy Daze add the manual satellite dish, it only has one LNB so can only "see" one satellite at a time. This means that you cannot have HD service with DirecTV, or...if you have Dish Network service...you'll have to reposition the dish each time you want to watch a program that's on a different satellite. The single-LNB dish will work just fine, however, with DirecTV's SD service since it's all on one satellite. What I'm trying to say is that you need to think about your satellite TV needs and which service you want (DirecTV or Dish Network) before you decide which dish is appropriate for those needs. It may or may not be Lazy Daze's manual dish.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #9 – February 09, 2010, 09:19:44 am Yahoo Message Number: 109885"Linda & Earl Hylton" wrote: Since you know you will need more panels than the two Lazy Daze offers, if it were me -- and knowing what I know now about how and where Lazy Daze installs the solar panels -- I would forego the factory option and head to Springfield, OR and have AM Solar install whatever solar panels I wanted. --- As Linda says, AM Solar will do the job for you! You might want to look at their website (http://amsolar.com/) and read through (especially) their "Education" pages. Their products, services, support, and customer relations are top quality, and emailed questions are answered promptly. Their facility is very nice, too, and offers a 30A hookup behind the shop for customers.Joan
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #10 – February 09, 2010, 09:50:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 109886Ditto on AM Solar. We had them install 3 8D Lifelines in our 1997 Foretravel and two 8D Lifelines in our 1997 RB. And be sure to have them install the battery monitor. It tells you at all times how much charge you have left and how much you can use and even "how many hours you can continue on batteries at the present 12v demand rate"Near the bottom of this page you can see the top of our 2003 MB:http://www.lazydazers.com/index.cfm?fa=ShowItem&ID=1716> showing two factory-installed solar panels where I opine I there was room 4 more solar panels even though the roof had a Datastorm unit on it. Although we had a 2000 watt inverter in our Foretravel, a 400 watt inverter in our 2003 MB and now have a 1300 watt inverter in our 1997 RB, I think a serious boondocker would think 12v appliances as much as possible/practical. This would save the energy loss running the inverter.Good luck!best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - "All of us have cancer cells in our bodies. But not all of us will develop cancer." from ANTI CANCER - A NEW WAY OF LIFE, by David Servan-Schreiber, MD, PhD - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #11 – February 09, 2010, 10:17:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 109889"be sure to have them install the battery monitor. It tells you at all times how much charge you have left and how much you can use and even 'how many hours you can continue on batteries at the present 12v demand rate'..." I strongly endorse Paul's recommendation. If you're planning to do a lot of boondocking, a computerized battery monitor such as a Link-10 is absolutely essential. Without it you'll be floundering, with no accurate knowledge of your batteries' charge state. (Contrary to popular wisdom, the voltage doesn't tell you that.)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #12 – February 09, 2010, 05:08:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109913Thank you Paul, Linda, Joan and Andy for your input. We wanted to get the "this is what we did and it's great", "this is what I would do knowing what I know now", and "this is the best way to handle the solar planning". Experience is a great teacher and we appreciate the opportunity to benefit from yours. To answer some questions; yes we will fulltime in our Lazy Daze, trading stock options is a priority, we do watch news programs and lots of PBS, we are outside most of the time so we record anything that we will want to watch later, our last (only) motorhome had an abundance of solar power so we will endeavor to have something pretty close to what was very comfortable for us, also had Direct PC and Direct TV (used the portable satellites) and had no problem with set-up/breakdown of the units. Be well, Ann and Jerry
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #13 – February 09, 2010, 05:24:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109916When I hear boondocking I think possible problems with Internet. We had Datastorm units on our Foretravel and 2003 MB. They delivered Internet anywhere, even in Mexico, plus the arm on the Datastorm had a dual LNB on it to get us DirecTV and TiVo.best, paulPS> What is "Direct PC"?"Thriving not surviving" - "All of us have cancer cells in our bodies. But not all of us will develop cancer." from ANTI CANCER - A NEW WAY OF LIFE, by David Servan-Schreiber, MD, PhD - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com
Re: new lazy daze solar question Reply #14 – February 09, 2010, 07:53:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109922Hi Paul, Direct PC was satellite broadband by HughsNet. It was available at the first Escapees Escapade that we attended just after buying our first motorhome. We were so new to everything. It just sounded wonderful and it turned out to be great for us. It was a little pricey but we rarely had any trouble getting a connection. Usually took us under 5 min. to connect. The only place we had difficulty was in Yellowstone where we volunteered for a summer. The Rangers wanted us to stay so they allowed us to set the satellite (with the sturdy home-made stand I made and a very long cable) up on the campground bathroom roof where we could get a clear shot through the tall trees to the southern sky. Perfect. Wind, rain, snow and we still had a connection to the Internet. We will look at Datastorm this time as well. We used to see people that had them as we traveled and they always said they liked their setup. Be well, Ann and Jerry
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