Log In | Register
Skip to main content
Topic: Keeping Engine Battery Charged??? (Read 31 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109366
I may be mistaken but I recall reading that some in our group install the Lifeline AGM Batteries in their interior living space (ie; under the dinette seats, etc.

I saw the following while on AGM's website...
 WARNING: All batteries must be adequately vented during charging to avoid accumulation of explosive hydrogen gasses. Never install or charge in a sealed container or room.
 If some are installing their AGM Batteries in this fashion, they might want to reconsider their location and the safety of such an location for their AGM Batteries.
 Just because they're spill proof and a gel no-maintenance battery, commom sense would dictate they shouldn't be installed in the living area of an RV!

Ed  94' LD MB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109370
Quote
From: Yahoo Acct
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:37 AM
 Subject: [LD] Re: HOUSE batteries

Just because they're spill proof and a gel no-maintenance battery, commom sense would dictate they shouldn't be installed in the living area of an RV!

Ed 94' LD MB

I'm pretty sure the equation for old fashioned flooded cell batteries vs.
AGM batteries hasn't much changed. Bottom line is that if you add a Pro-Fill, don't mind squeezing a rubber bulb to top the battery w/ distilled water once a month or so, and have enough vented space to install them, flooded cell batteries are a much better value than AGM by a factor of about 2 to 1.
 When I finally need to replace the 4 2005 vintage Trojan 105's in Yonder, it will be with flooded cell batteries. Maybe with Trojans or perhaps those batteries at Cosco that some are using - - depends on price. For now, my old Trojans are soldiering along just fine, even though they were mistreated once.*
 * I left the Prosine 2000 inverter enabled while connected to shore power in an unheated hangar, and with a portable heater turned on. A shore power failure occurred, the Prosine promptly took over supplying power to the heater, and I didn't find out about it for about a week or so. Of course the Prosine protects the batteries some by not taking them down below about 10.5 volts (IIRC), but storing batteries discharged is certain death. They did come back to life and it seems with minimal damage.

bumper Yonder Minden, NV
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109375
I wasn't amazed that they had high opinions of the Lifelines, but that they were so helpful and knowledgeable on the phone as I asked questions and confirmed my research.  It nice and somewhat surprising to get good help nowadays.
 I'm definitely leaning towards the AGMs... If I ever get on the road aga
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109376
Dollar for dollar, amp hour for amp hour it's hard to beat flood cell batteries. When I bring up the maintenance issue; with flood cell batteries if you over fill by accident you will have issues with seepage during the charging cycle which will cause problems in the battery compartment. You try to keep things cleaned up along with cleaning the terminals to keep corrosion off only to be surprised by corrosion in the battery compartment when you pull the batteries for replacement. After a good cleaning of the compartment and some fresh paint, you're good to go with the new batteries.
 If you don't do your own maintenance and have someone install the batteries for you I'm sure they would not take the time to clean the area before installing the new batteries which in the long run can cause allot of damage with rust and corrosion. Maybe it's just me and I don't know what I'm doing, but that has been my experience with flood cell batteries.
 On the other hand you can install AGM's and not worry about topping off or corrosion problems. It's just a clean set-up and works for me and that alone justifies the extra expense of the AGM's.

Robert Britton Hollister, California
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109381
Just to add to personal experience with flooded cell batteries, I recently replaced my original Trojan T-105's after 9 years of trouble free service.  They still were doing just fine, but how much can you expect from batteries.  Not only that, but not having had solar, I leave the old "crummy" year 2000 converter plugged in whenever we are home.
Over the years I've only had to add water about every 3 months, too.
Maybe I'm just lucky, my converter is adjusted differently or the cool temperatures of the NW help, but I'd think twice about replacing those Trojan's before their time.  By the way, I replaced them with Costco batteries, we'll see how they do over time.
 Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA  By the way, what ever happened to our idea of giving a location in our signatures.  Seems like we agreed to do that a few years ago.  Not many (bumper an exception) do it anymore.
Former 2000 MB- Now Bullet Crossfire 1800RB trailer pulled by a Chevy 2500HD
Re: Posting Location
Reply #31 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109383
"...Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA  By the way, what ever happened to our idea of giving a location in our signatures.  Seems like we agreed to do that a few years ago.  Not many (bumper an exception) do it anymore..."

 Rich, I thinks folks just plain don't think of it.  That said, it is nice to see where people are posting from.

Chris Horst 2002 30' IB Arvada (Denver) CO
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #32 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109384
Let's start with one important point: the original post incorrectly described Lifeline AGM batteries as "a gel no-maintenance battery." AGMs are *not* gel batteries, and for safety purposes they have quite different characteristics, as explained in Lifeline's bulletin:

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/safety_bull.php>

It's well worth reading, especially the last paragraph:
 "each LIFELINE battery not only passed the gas emission test in MIL-SPEC B-8565J (Section 4.6.22), but no single unit generated over one percent hydrogen gas in any test section... even during a simulated-shorted cell overcharge."
 In other words, even under the most extreme conditions--high temperature, overcharged battery, and a shorted cell--the amount of hydrogen generated was *less than a quarter* of what's required to support combustion.
 In real-world terms, that tells me I'm not going to lie awake nights worrying about how well my AGMs are ventilated.
 On a related topic, I completely agree with those who say that AGMs can't compete with flooded-cell Trojan batteries on a dollars-per-amp-hour basis. I've said for years that AGMs are an expensive luxury. They are, however, a luxury I was willing to pay for in both my motorhomes, because they made it possible for me to more than double my battery capacity without worrying about punching vent holes in compartments. The elimination of maintenance was a bonus.
 Want something to worry about? Try this: Trojans emit hydrogen when charging. Hydrogen is lighter than air, so it rises. The vented battery compartment door on many Lazy Daze models is located directly below the vented refrigerator access door... behind which there's an open flame. But I've yet to hear of an exploding Lazy Daze caused by hydrogen being ignited by the refrigerator burner. Moral: you have to assess risks realistically, or you'll never stop worrying. ;-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #33 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109385
"what ever happened to our idea of giving a location in our signatures. Seems like we agreed to do that a few years ago."
 I'm pretty sure we never agreed to do that, and in any case I wouldn't expect members of the group to feel bound by any such agreement. Some folks like to broadcast their location to the world, while others prefer not to. It's a question of how you feel about your privacy, and how open you are to folks dropping in on you without warning. Everybody has their own comfort levels, and giving out your location is an individual choice. Let's not make people feel as if this is something they "ought" to do in order to be good members.

Andy "Go ahead, call me antisocial" Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Posting Location
Reply #34 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109387
what ever happened to our idea of giving a location in our signatures.
Seems like we agreed to do that a few years ago.  Not many (bumper an exception) do it anymore..."


 I *always* give a location in my signature...you just have to click on the datastorm users map link in my signature to see where that location is.
There are other people on this group who have the same datastorm users map link in their signature, too.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Linda Hylton
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #35 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109388
"I'm definitely leaning towards the AGMs... If I ever get on the road again full-time my goal is to upgrade the solar and go to 4 batteries."
 David, here's a suggestion based on my own experience: if you go with Group 27 12V AGMs, as I did, bear in mind that you needn't limit yourself to an even number of batteries.
 I initially upgraded Skylark to four 12V AGM batteries--two in the outside battery compartment and two under the fridge--because I was used to thinking in 6V terms, where you must have pairs of batteries. But I almost immediately began to kick myself, as I realized that there was room for three batteries under the midbath's fridge, and I'd spent a lot of money on labor to have just two installed. One more battery would not have increased the total bill by much, since most of the cost was labor.
 I later went back and installed a third battery under the fridge, giving me a total of five (for 525 amp-hours)... but it would have been much simpler and less expensive to put in five batteries to begin with! :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #36 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109390
It's a question of how you feel about your privacy, and how open you are to folks dropping in on you without warning.


 As I stated, I give our location in the link to the datastorm users map.  I have never, in the years I've been doing this, had anyone drop in on us without warning.  I *have* had people email me and say, "Hey, I see you're at such-and-such a place.  We're nearby, can we get together?"
 I would hope that everyone here is respectful enough of other people not to drop in on them unexpectedly just because they happen to know where they are located without contacting the person first.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Linda Hylton
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #37 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109391
Just an FYI for RB folks. Two 8D AGMs at 255 amp-hours each for a total of 510 amp-hours fit very nicely under the forward dinette seat.

best, paul

"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com - 1997 RB at El Centro, CA
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #38 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109392
"I have never, in the years I've been doing this, had anyone drop in on us without warning.

Quote
Linda Hylton
Ah ah ah, Linda,
 Do you mean to tell me that I have the distinction of being the only person who dropped in on you unannounced when you were camp hosting up on Pitt River while you still had your Lazy Daze? ? ? ?  And to think you don't remember those Walla Walla Sweet Onions I brought you? For shame!

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #39 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109393
Quote
Do you mean to tell me that I have the distinction of being the only person who dropped in on you unannounced when you were camp hosting up on Pitt River while you still had your Lazy Daze? ? ? ?  And to think you don't remember those Walla Walla Sweet Onions I brought you? For shame!

 Steve, no I haven't forgotten!  But dropping in while we're camp hosting is different than dropping in at other locations (when you're camp hosting, you expect people to drop in on you unannounced!).
 I must say, though, that we don't really mind too much having people drop in unannounced...but it would be nice to know beforehand just to make sure we're going to be there!  I'd hate to have someone drive to our location only to find that we're out gallivanting around...or have left our location and haven't yet updated the datastorm users map to reflect the new location.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Linda Hylton
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #40 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109396
That's what I love about this group.
One learns so much...
 When I posted the paragraph I copied from the AGM Battery Website, I did not see nor read the test results relating to the insignificant amount of Hydrogen Gas they do give off even under the worst of possible conditions.
 I had read another posting in our group where the member said AMG's didn't give off any gas and I didn't believe that was true so I went to the company website to satisfy my curiosity.
 When I read the warning on AGM's site stating not to install their batteries in unventilated areas or living areas, I posted the warning "word for word" to our group as a potential safety issue!
 However, It does pays to be extremely thorough when researching something!

Thanks Andy for enlightening me as to the safety of AGM Batteries.
 If I needed to replace my batteries I would switch to the superior AGM Batteries, just like Lazy Daze finally did for their 2010 model lineup!

Ed 94' LD Mid Bath 26.5' Port Richey, Florida
Location in signature (was HOUSE batteries)
Reply #41 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109404
Andy,
 Guess I'm just rembering the discussion; and your statement in 2005 that you would "Try to do it more often in the future".  I won't call you "antisocial", I guess all our attitudes change with time. I wasn't implying we all "ought" to do it, but I don't think I'm alone wondering where some of our posting friends are located.  Having traveled over 46 states with our LD, I can sometimes picture the area of the poster when they give their location.  YMMV, but I like the idea.

Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA
Former 2000 MB- Now Bullet Crossfire 1800RB trailer pulled by a Chevy 2500HD
 
Re: HOUSE batteries
Reply #42 –
Yahoo Message Number: 109408
Quote
From: Yahoo Acct
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:08 PM
 Subject: [LD] Re: HOUSE batteries

That's what I love about this group.
One learns so much...
 When I posted the paragraph I copied from the AGM Battery Website, I did not see nor read the test results relating to the insignificant amount of Hydrogen Gas they do give off even under the worst of possible conditions.
Ed 94' LD Mid Bath 26.5' Port Richey, Florida
 I know Ed and Andy weren't referring to this when they mentioned, "worst possible conditions". However, it's worth considering, at least in my opinion, what might happen to batteries in an accident sequence. With the stock outside battery compartment, if the battery case is ruptured, it is probably unlikely that battery acid would enter the interior of the RV. With batteries installed inside the motorhome, this could be a consideration. Now I concur there is a fundamental difference between the two battery types, flooded cell batteries have fluid electrolyte in the cells. AGM batteries, on the other hand, have their fluid electrolyte soaked in a fiberglass mat, sort of like a wet washcloth, so even with a ruptured case I don't think any acid release would be a large quantity - - though I don't know if that would be the case if the battery were crushed in some manner during an accident.
 There is a more significant risk, though. That being what might happen is a rapid deceleration of a large number of G's, as may happen during an accident. That 100+ (guessing) battery may all of a sudden weigh 500 or more pounds. If not adequately restrained it could break free from a non-reinforced cabinet space and try to share the front seat with you. If installing batteries inside the motorhome, it'd be a good idea to fasten them down at least as securely as the seat belts are anchored (i.e. using through the floor bolts with large fender washers below the floor and substantial straps for hold-downs.

all the best,

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer